The good man that turned bad out of necessity

[Matthias]

So the solution to protecting innocent people is to speak like Jesus did?

The solution to protecting innocent people is to let the state do what it is required by God to do and for the followers of Jesus to do what he and the apostles taught his followers to do.

I don't know about you, but I can't make water into wine either ...

I’ve never tried. Do you conclude from your inability to make water into wine that you shouldn’t follow Paul’s instruction, given in 1 Corinthians 11:1?

I had to do physical labor to earn money to buy the food and drink for my daughter's wedding.

I did the same for mine.

 

[Matthias]

@markalan do you share the belief expressed by @Riven that the Golden Rule is divorced from reality?

 

[markalan]

The solution to protecting innocent people is to let the state do what it is required by God to do and for the followers of Jesus to do what he and the apostles taught his followers to do.

You still have to confront the fact that Jesus used His power to strike the men to the ground in an act of physical violence.

I’ve never tried. Do you conclude from your inability to make water into wine that you shouldn’t follow Paul’s instruction, given in 1 Corinthians 11:1?

I conclude that we ought not to think imitating Jesus means we have the same power as Him. What He did by spiritual means, we need to do by physical means.

 

[markalan]

do you share the belief expressed by @Riven that the Golden Rule is divorced from reality?

No, it is a part of the Christian reality.

 

[Matthias]

You still have to confront the fact that Jesus used His power to strike the men to the ground in an act of physical violence.

The power was in his spoken word. He didn’t push them. I think you still need to confront the fact that Jesus and the apostles didn’t harm anyone and taught his followers not to harm anyone.

I conclude that we ought not to think imitating Jesus means we have the same power as Him.

Thanks.

What He did by spiritual means, we need to do by physical means.

Then we should all be out physically turning water into wine?

 

[markalan]

The power was in his spoken word. He didn’t push them. I think you still need to confront the fact that Jesus and the apostles didn’t harm anyone and taught his followers not to harm anyone.

Jesus caused the men to fall over ... and I would say He did that to protect His disciples by giving them time to flee.
No matter how it happened, it was an act of physical violence.

Then we should all be out physically turning water into wine?

I would say that we should physically work to provide for and protect our family

 

[Matthias]

No, it is a part of the Christian reality.

Thanks. @Riven has only been a Christian for around a year. For reasons that I won’t go into here, he needs to hear that coming from Christians other than me. He’s a good thinker and he’s growing in his faith.

 

[Matthias]

Jesus caused the men to fall over ... and I would say He did that to protect His disciples by giving them time to flee.
No matter how it happened, it was an act of physical violence.

We won’t be able to agree that Jesus physically inflicted violence on them.

I would say that we should physically work to provide for and protect our family

I agree with that.

 

[Debp]

It isn’t a sin to protect yourself and your family. It is a sin to disobey Jesus. Use of lethal force by a follower of Jesus violates his command - made to his followers, not to the state - not to kill our enemies.

You seem to be trying to have it both ways. You say it isn't a sin to protect yourself and your family...but then you say use of lethal force violates the command of Jesus. Instead of all of this twisting of meanings...why don't you just admit you don't know what you will do if you or your family (God forbid) are attacked.

 

[Debp]

Thanks. @Riven has only been a Christian for around a year. For reasons that I won’t go into here, he needs to hear that coming from Christians other than me. He’s a good thinker and he’s growing in his faith.

Actually @Riven I think you finally became a Christian on Good Friday? I remember you were fellowshipping with us at Counter Media UK for Good Friday. After that I think you said you believed on Jesus.

 

[Matthias]

You seem to be trying to have it both ways.

Thanks for the feedback.

You say it isn't a sin to protect yourself and your family...but then you say use of lethal force violates the command of Jesus.

Yes.

Instead of all of this twisting of meanings...

I haven’t twisted any meanings. I’m sorry that it has come across that way to you.

why don't you just admit you don't know what you will do if you or your family (God forbid) are attacked.

I have. (In fact, many times in this forum when discussing the matter.) The only thing which I have ruled completely out is killing my attacker / my enemy.

 

[markalan]

I agree with that.

That's a good note to finish on ... I am now about to take my grandson to his ninja class so he can learn how to throw people to the ground

 

[Matthias]

That's a good note to finish on ...

Thank you for the good conversation.

I am now about to take my grandson to his ninja class so he can learn how to throw people to the ground

If only ninjas stopped at that. My grandson is 7 yeard old. He was awarded a green belt in Taekwondo on Monday this week.

 

[Riven]

No, it is a part of the Christian reality.

Edit: you expressed interest in finishing the discussion, so I'll leave it there.

 

[Matthias]

Even with a full night’s rest, which I didn’t get, I couldn’t imagine Jesus and the apostles as ninjas, teaching the followers of Jesus to be / become ninjas. In another thread, readers have been asked to see Vlad the Impaler as a Christian role model. What a world we live in.

Maranatha.

P.S.



The Ante Nicene Church Fathers couldn’t have either.



And C.H. Spurgeon? Absolutely not.

Try to work them into your reading @Riven. But first and foremost, the Bible.

 

[Riven]

Actually @Riven I think you finally became a Christian on Good Friday? I remember you were fellowshipping with us at Counter Media UK for Good Friday. After that I think you said you believed on Jesus.

I can't quite remember, but we'll go with that. It sounds good.

 

[Matthias]

Before this morning it never would have crossed my mind to ask this question:

Did Jesus and the apostles teach their followers to become like ninjas?

AI Overview had this to say -

“No, Jesus and the apostles did not teach their followers to become like ninjas. They taught people to follow the ways of peace, love, and truth. Ninjas were secret fighters from Japan who trained in espionage and martial arts centuries later.

What Jesus and the Apostles Taught

• Love for enemies: Jesus told people to love those who hate them and pray for them.

• Peaceful ways: The apostles weote that believers should live at peace with everyone.

• Spiritual armor: They spoke of spiritual tools like faith and truth instead of physical weapons.

What Ninjas Did

• Secret combat: Ninjas used stealth, disguise, and hidden weapons for spying and fighting in feudal Japan.

• Different time and place: Ninja history began hundreds of years after the time of Jesus in a different part of the world.”

 

[Riven]

Before this morning it never would have crossed my mind to ask this question:

Did Jesus and the apostles teach their followers to become like ninjas?

AI Overview had this to say -

“No, Jesus and the apostles did not teach their followers to become like ninjas. They taught people to follow the ways of peace, love, and truth. Ninjas were secret fighters from Japan who trained in espionage and martial arts centuries later.

What Jesus and the Apostles Taught

• Love for enemies: Jesus told people to love those who hate them and pray for them.

• Peaceful ways: The apostles weote that believers should live at peace with everyone.

• Spiritual armor: They spoke of spiritual tools like faith and truth instead of physical weapons.

What Ninjas Did

• Secret combat: Ninjas used stealth, disguise, and hidden weapons for spying and fighting in feudal Japan.

• Different time and place: Ninja history began hundreds of years after the time of Jesus in a different part of the world.”

The AI's response illustrated...

 

[Matthias]

The AI's response illustrated...

First, Vlad the Impaler. Now, ninjas.

It’s probably thinking, “OMG, what’s next?”

 

[Lambano]

First, Vlad the Impaler. Now, ninjas.

It’s probably thinking, “OMG, what’s next?”