MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

[David in NJ]

Remember that AI is sycophantic. It tells you what it thinks you want to hear. It congratulates you to make you use it more often and become dependent on it.

a hidden diamond for you my brother in Christ

We know the THREE = FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT

We know the counterfeit = Beast/False Prophet / and.................

 

[Anchorite]

Do you believe the mark of God is a literal physical mark?

The Greek word for "mark" in the biblical "mark of the beast" passage (Revelation 13:16) is χάραγμα(charagma), meaning an etched stamp, branded seal, or carved inscription.

 

[IndianaRob]

Do you believe Jesus rose physically, literally from the grave?

Absolutely I do believe he rose physically and I know the sword in his mouth are the words coming out of His mouth.

 

[IndianaRob]

Except that is not always the case. For example, I take the thousand years in 2 Peter 3:8 to mean a literal thousand years. And I have arguments for as to why. Except not one AI I have conversed with about this subject agrees with my conclusions, including this same AI here. If you are entirely correct then why is no AI telling me what I want to hear thus agreeing with me? Instead, they argue with me about it and none of them will change their mind no matter what I argue.

I would like to hear your argument on 2 Peter 3:8.
Do you think the cattle on a thousand hills are literal cows on literal hills?

 

[IndianaRob]

I want to test and see if you are being consistent throughout. The city and temple meant in Revelation 11:1-2. Literal or non literal?

I say it's literal. The true temple is our body, so Rev 11's temple and city have to be literal, referring to earthly Jerusalem—which was destroyed and replaced by the true temple, our bodies, and heavenly Jerusalem. Which is plenty of proof Rev 11 is not talking about something in the future.

 

[Anchorite]

1 Timothy 2:1-4

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.

This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[David in NJ]

I say it's literal. The true temple is our body, so Rev 11's temple and city have to be literal, referring to earthly Jerusalem—which was destroyed and replaced by the true temple, our bodies, and heavenly Jerusalem. Which is plenty of proof Rev 11 is not talking about something in the future.

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

How is heavenly Jerusalem given to the Gentiles to tread under foot for 42 months???

 

[IndianaRob]

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

How is heavenly Jerusalem given to the Gentiles to tread under foot for 42 months???

It’s not. I said the temple was the temple in the earthly Jerusalem, the one destroyed in 70 AD.

 

[Davidpt]

Do you believe the mark of God is a literal physical mark?

Do you believe the mark God put on Cain was a literal mark? If yes then no commentary is necessary unless you want to provide some. If no then commentary is necessary so that we can understand why you conclude the mark was not literal.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Because it is symbolic vernacular. Scripture is full of it.

Without a visible sign/mark on the head or hand, how will you know who you are allowed to buy & sell with ?

 

[PeterAndroz]

Do you believe the mark God put on Cain was a literal mark? If yes then no commentary is necessary unless you want to provide some. If no then commentary is necessary so that we can understand why you conclude the mark was not literal.

And without a visible mark how would someone know that killing Cain was not allowed ?
I too am looking forward to an explanation for that.
...
Gen 4:14-15
Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Keep praying for understanding.

Do you not need to keep praying for understanding yourself? Do you think the seal of God is a physical seal?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Without a visible sign/mark on the head or hand, how will you know who you are allowed to buy & sell with ?

Do you think the buying and selling of merchandise is the only type of buying and selling? Have you never considered that it could be talking about buying and selling in a different sense than that?

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and do not sell it, Also wisdom and instruction and understanding.

Revelation 3:18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Do you not need to keep praying for understanding yourself? Do you think the seal of God is a physical seal?

If people cant visually see a mark on the hand or head how will they know if they are allowed to buy & sell with that person ?

 

[Anchorite]

Do you believe the mark God put on Cain was a literal mark? If yes then no commentary is necessary unless you want to provide some. If no then commentary is necessary so that we can understand why you conclude the mark was not literal.

What mark on a human being would make you afraid to kill him?

I have never seen any good speculation on this question. Except this one…

In the ancient Mediterranean world, marking the forehead with a hot iron brand or a forced tattoo (stigma) was a severe method used by Greeks and Romans to punish runaway slaves, signal ownership, and deter flight. Romans called heavily marked slaves frontes litterati ("lettered foreheads").

Putting a "mark" on a person tells everyone that no one is allowed to harm this person or kill them without answering to the person who has literally put their brand on them. In Adonai's case, it would be an overwhelming sensation to get away from Cain.

The name of Yahweh was tattooed on Cain’s forehead, meaning he was branded as belonging to God, is a possibility. Because it would scare people. They would be afraid to kill Cain because he was God’s property and God would get revenge on you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So if we had to take a physical mark, a computer chip or RFID tattoo, on the forehead and right hand, in order to buy and sell, you would go along with it, because to you, the motb is symbolic, not literal?

If it's made clear that doing so means you are rejecting Jesus Christ then I would hope none of us would go along with it. But worshiping the beast and having the mark of the beast are things associated with those whose names are not written in the book of life. With unsaved people, in other words. So, whatever the mark of the beast is, it has to represent that someone is rejecting Jesus Christ. To me, it doesn't make sense that a physical mark would mean you are rejecting Jesus Christ. I see the mark of the beast as being the spiritual opposite of the seal/mark of God, which is the Holy Spirit. Do you think the seal/mark of God is physical?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If people cant visually see a mark on the hand or head how will they know if they are allowed to buy & sell with that person ?

I don't believe the buying and selling is talking about the buying and selling of merchandise. Scripture sometimes refers to buying and selling in a figurative sense. Here's a couple examples that I already showed in another post.

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and do not sell it, Also wisdom and instruction and understanding.

Revelation 3:18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

Buying and selling can relate figuratively to buying and selling what someone believes. Have you ever heard someone say "I'm not buying what you're selling" when someone is trying to convince them of something? I believe it's talking about not being able to freely buy or sell your beliefs to someone unless you have the mark of the beast. Which means anyone trying to preach (sell) the gospel is met with resistance. This lines up with how both Jesus and Paul said that deception, wickedness, apostasy and persecution will be increased during a time before the return of Christ.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Do you think the buying and selling of merchandise is the only type of buying and selling? Have you never considered that it could be talking about buying and selling in a different sense than that?

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and do not sell it, Also wisdom and instruction and understanding.

Revelation 3:18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

Rev 13:7 doesn't specify what, it just writes -- ""And that no man might buy or sell,""
eg.
Can't pay for my car rego without a 'mark'
Can't pay for my house insurance without a 'mark'
Can't pay for legal advice without a 'mark'
Can't receive my super without a 'mark'
Cant buy groceries without a 'mark'

 

[ewq1938]

I don't believe a mark God gives someone would be the same as a mark satan/the AC would give. Usually satan works with counterfeits that are not as good or the same as an original from God.

 

[PeterAndroz]

If it's made clear that doing so means you are rejecting Jesus Christ then I would hope none of us would go along with it. But worshiping the beast and having the mark of the beast are things associated with those whose names are not written in the book of life. With unsaved people, in other words. So, whatever the mark of the beast is, it has to represent that someone is rejecting Jesus Christ. To me, it doesn't make sense that a physical mark would mean you are rejecting Jesus Christ. I see the mark of the beast as being the spiritual opposite of the seal/mark of God, which is the Holy Spirit. Do you think the seal/mark of God is physical?

Yet without the 'mark' how will you :-
Buy food
Buy fuel
Buy electricity
Buy water