MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

[Anchorite]

Do you think the seal/mark of God is physical?

No, but the seal of God on a believer has nothing to do with buying or selling.

The mark of the beast enables a person to buy and sell.

We can take this literally and physically, because for the first time in human history, such a mark is now ready to be implemented via computer chip implants or RFID tattoo, monitored by AI data centers.

The Greek word for "mark" in the biblical "mark of the beast" passage (in Revelation 13:16) is χάραγμα (charagma), meaning an etched stamp, branded seal, or carved inscription.

The mark of the beast is an allusion to the custom among the Romans of branding or imprinting ownership marks upon their servants and soldiers, by which they might be known to whom they belonged; servants had them in their foreheads, and soldiers in their hands.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Rev 13:7 doesn't specify what, it just writes -- ""And that no man might buy or sell,""
eg.
Can't pay for my car rego without a 'mark'
Can't pay for my house insurance without a 'mark'
Can't pay for legal advice without a 'mark'
Can't receive my super without a 'mark'
Cant buy groceries without a 'mark'

What does being able to buy or sell those things have to do with whether or not someone's name is written in the book of life? It seems that people lose sight of what having the mark of the beast means. It's a mark that indicates that someone is lost/unsaved and doesn't have their name written in the book of life. What does the buying and selling of the things you mentioned have to do with whether someone is saved or not?

 

[PeterAndroz]

What does being able to buy or sell those things have to do with whether or not someone's name is written in the book of life? It seems that people lose sight of what having the mark of the beast means. It's a mark that indicates that someone is lost/unsaved and doesn't have their name written in the book of life. What does the buying and selling of the things you mentioned have to do with whether someone is saved or not?

The 'mark' determines whether or not you are allowed to buy or sell.
Some will take it others wont

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, but the seal of God on a believer has nothing to do with buying or selling.

Why do you assume the buying or selling has to refer to the buying or selling of material things? Is Jesus talking about buying physical gold and white garments here?

Revelation 3:18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

Why wouldn't the mark of the beast simply be the spiritual opposite of the seal/mark of God? Those with the seal of God are saved and those with the mark of the beast are not. Revelation is a very highly symbolic book, so you should at least consider the possibility that the mark of the beast is not a literal, physical mark.

The mark of the beast enables a person to buy and sell.

We can take this literally and physically, because for the first time in human history, such a mark is now ready to be implemented via computer chip implants or RFID tattoo, monitored by AI data centers.

You need to remember that whatever the mark of the beast is, it is directly related to the worship of the beast and Revelation 13:8 says all whose names are not written in the book of life worship the beast. How can such a system be applied to literally all people in the world? That isn't reasonable.

The Greek word for "mark" in the biblical "mark of the beast" passage (in Revelation 13:16) is χάραγμα (charagma), meaning an etched stamp, branded seal, or carved inscription.

The Greek word for "lamb" refers to an animal, but that doesn't mean the word can't be used symbolically. Any time a word is used symbolically it's not being used in the normal sense. Any word can potentially be used symbolically.

The mark of the beast is an allusion to the custom among the Romans of branding or imprinting ownership marks upon their servants and soldiers, by which they might be known to whom they belonged; servants had them in their foreheads, and soldiers in their hands.

I disagree. The reference to it being on the right hand or forehead symbolically refers to people's actions and beliefs. Those whose actions and beliefs reflect that they reject God/Christ reveals that they have the mark of the beast.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The 'mark' determines whether or not you are allowed to buy or sell.
Some will take it others wont

What does that have to do with whether or not someone's name is written in the book of life? Do you understand that having the mark of the beast means someone is not saved and doesn't have their name written in the book of life? This is about spiritual realities, not physical.

 

[Anchorite]

What does being able to buy or sell those things have to do with whether or not someone's name is written in the book of life? It seems that people lose sight of what having the mark of the beast means. It's a mark that indicates that someone is lost/unsaved and doesn't have their name written in the book of life. What does the buying and selling of the things you mentioned have to do with whether someone is saved or not?

Not being able to buy or sell is how the Beast System will persecute those who refuse to worship the Beast by taking his mark on forehead and hand.

Revelation 13:17

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yet without the 'mark' how will you :-
Buy food
Buy fuel
Buy electricity
Buy water

Just like I always do. Are you not reading anything I'm saying? You're asking me that question as if I agree with you that it's a physical mark. I do not agree with that.

 

[PeterAndroz]

What does that have to do with whether or not someone's name is written in the book of life? Do you understand that having the mark of the beast means someone is not saved and doesn't have their name written in the book of life? This is about spiritual realities, not physical.

Come the time, will you be able to buy or sell without the MOTB ? No
How will you know if someone has the MOTB ? They will have a 'mark' on their head or hand.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Just like I always do. Are you not reading anything I'm saying? You're asking me that question as if I agree with you that it's a physical mark. I do not agree with that.

Without a VISIBLE mark, how will someone know whether they can buy & sell with each other
Without a VISIBLE mark, how did people know not to kill Cain in Gen 4:15.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Come the time, will you be able to buy or sell without the MOTB ? No
How will you know if someone has the MOTB ? They will have a 'mark' on their head or hand.

Are you reading what I'm saying or not? How many times do I have to tell you that I disagree with your opinion that it's talking about a physical mark? Nothing you're saying means anything to me since I don't see it as a physical mark or as talking about the literal buying or selling of material things.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Are you reading what I'm saying or not? How many times do I have to tell you that I disagree with your opinion that it's talking about a physical mark? Nothing you're saying means anything to me since I don't see it as a physical mark or as talking about the literal buying or selling of material things.

Simple basics SI
Without a VISIBLE mark, how will anyone know who they can buy or sell with ?
It's an easy question

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Without a VISIBLE mark, how will someone know whether they can buy & sell with each other
Without a VISIBLE mark, how did people know not to kill Cain in Gen 4:15.

I don't believe it's talking about buying or selling material goods. I've already explained my view. Take it or leave it. Stop asking me questions as if I agree that it's a visible mark. I don't. Cain has nothing to do with this. The seal of God is not a visible seal, yet it talks about it being on the forehead. Why does the mark of the beast on the forehead have to be visible? It doesn't. Spiritual things are being symbolically described, but you, for some reason, want to try to interpret the most highly symbolic book in the Bible as literally as possible. I disagree with that approach.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Simple basics SI
Without a VISIBLE mark, how will anyone know who they can buy or sell with ?
It's an easy querstion

I do not believe it's a visible mark and do not believe it's talking about the buying or selling of material things, so why are you asking me that question? Ask me questions that actually apply to what I actually believe. Is that too hard for you to understand?

 

[PeterAndroz]

I don't believe it's talking about buying or selling material goods. I've already explained my view. Take it or leave it. Stop asking me questions as if I agree that it's a visible mark. I don't. Cain has nothing to do with this. The seal of God is not a visible seal, yet it talks about it being on the forehead. Why does the mark of the beast on the forehead have to be visible? It doesn't. Spiritual things are being symbolically described, but you, for some reason, want to try to interpret the most highly symbolic book in the Bible as literally as possible. I disagree with that approach.

Believe what you want, the verse is clear, without the 'mark' you can not buy or sell

 

[PeterAndroz]

I do not believe it's a visible mark and do not believe it's talking about the buying or selling of material things, so why are you asking me that question? Ask me questions that actually apply to what I actually believe. Is that too hard for you to understand?

Its an easy question SI.
Without a VISIBLE 'mark' how can someone know whether or not they can buy or sell with another.
If you don't know then say so

 

[Anchorite]

Its an easy question SI.
Without a VISIBLE 'mark' how can someone know whether or not they can buy or sell with another.
If you don't know then say so

Like the mark of the beast, the mark on Cain had to be a literal physical mark.

The "mark of the beast" (Revelation 13:16-18) is frequently associated in modern prophetic interpretation with emerging technologies that facilitate a cashless society, centralized world government, and biometric tracking, coordinated by AI data centers in a global central surveillance and control system.

This mark would be more expedient than asking multiple questions or conducting a complex background check.

Likewise, the mark on Cain had to flag him by sight, so everyone would dread killing him.

 

[PeterAndroz]

I do not believe it's a visible mark and do not believe it's talking about the buying or selling of material things, so why are you asking me that question? Ask me questions that actually apply to what I actually believe. Is that too hard for you to understand?

Hey SI, I can see we'll never get on, so best if we just ignore each other
..

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Believe what you want, the verse is clear, without the 'mark' you can not buy or sell

I will believe what I want without your permission. I agree that you can't buy or sell without it, but I disagree that it's talking about the buying of material things. But, go ahead and think that it's talking about a literal mark that somehow means that someone is not saved and doesn't have their name written in the book of life even though that is a spiritual matter and not a physical one.

 

[Anchorite]

Hey SI, I can see we'll never get on, so best if we just ignore each other

I guess Spiritual Israelite does not want to have his opinions challenged. We are supposed to buy into his thinking and only ask questions that conform to and correspond with his beliefs.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hey SI, I can see we'll never get on, so best if we just ignore each other
..

That's fine. But, if you have any questions for me then ask them according to what I actually believe, not according to what you want me to believe.