MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

[markalan]

Do you believe the mark God put on Cain was a literal mark? If yes then no commentary is necessary unless you want to provide some. If no then commentary is necessary so that we can understand why you conclude the mark was not literal.

It is a principle in understanding Revelation that literal things are given spiritual meanings.

The precedent is set in the first chapter of Revelation, eg

seven golden lampstands
seven stars
two-edged sword
keys

 

[PeterAndroz]

I would ask my neighbour

There's no mention of banning bartering, I fix your car, you give me water from your tank and food from your garden.
I do see a problem though, without the 'mark' how will you pay council rates to be able to have a place where you can collect rain water into tanks and grow your own food and then no place = no where for your solar panels to charge your batts for electricity etc etc etc

 

[markalan]

There's no mention of banning bartering, I fix your car, you give me water from your tank and food from your garden.
I do see a problem though, without the 'mark' how will you pay council rates to be able to have a place where you can collect rain water into tanks and grow your own food and then no place = no where for your solar panels to charge your batts for electricity etc etc etc

I live just fine without all those things right now.

 

[ProDeo]

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

Rev 11 is about the temple to be destroyed and the 3½ years (42 months) are exactly matching history, the siege of Jerusalem started in AD 66, do the math.

 

[PeterAndroz]

I live just fine without all those things right now.

Come MOTB time, if you can survive without having to buy or sell anything then good for you.
Most though will need to purchase water, food, fuel, pay mortgage, pay insurance, pay council rates, pay bills etc etc etc.
No 'mark' person X has cash to buy urgent supplies.
Seller does not see a 'mark' on X's head or hand, how does X get what they need
.

 

[markalan]

Come MOTB time, if you can survive without having to buy or sell anything then good for you.
Most though will need to purchase water, food, fuel, pay mortgage, pay insurance, pay council rates, pay bills etc etc etc.
No 'mark' person X has cash to buy urgent supplies.
Seller does not see a 'mark' on X's head or hand, how does X get what they need
.

If just one person on the planet buys or sells anything during whatever time frame you are proposing, then the whole literal assumption collapses.
There are more than 8 billion people on earth ....

 

[PeterAndroz]

If just one person on the planet buys or sells anything during whatever time frame you are proposing, then the whole literal assumption collapses.
There are more than 8 billion people on earth ....

MarkOfTheBeast - MOTB
Rev 13:16-17
Rev 14 :9-11
Without taking the 'mark' << MOTB how will a person buy & sell ?
How will anyone know who has the 'mark' if a 'mark' is not seen on the persons hand or forehead ?

 

[markalan]

MarkOfTheBeast - MOTB
Rev 13:16-17
Rev 14 :9-11
Without taking the 'mark' << MOTB how will a person buy & sell ?
How will anyone know who has the 'mark' if a 'mark' is not seen on the persons hand or forehead ?

Think about your last question - then remember there are more than 8 billion people on earth.

So much for the implausible logistics ... now for some Biblical hermeneutics.

Use your preferred online Bible and search for the word "foreheads" ... then let me know if you think all six mentions in Revelation are literal.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Think about your last question - then remember there are more than 8 billion people on earth.

So much for the implausible logistics ... now for some Biblical hermeneutics.

Use your preferred online Bible and search for the word "foreheads" ... then let me know if you think all six mentions in Revelation are literal.

If not a VISIBLE mark on hand or forehead how will anyone know you have the 'mark' ?
List the verses please.

 

[markalan]

If not a VISIBLE mark on hand or forehead how will anyone know you have the 'mark' ?
List the verses please.

You will find the verses if you carry out the simple Bible search I suggested.

 

[PeterAndroz]

You will find the verses if you carry out the simple Bible search I suggested.

Then politely & simply list them so that I can try to understand your point of view

 

[markalan]

Then politely & simply list them so that I can try to understand your point of view

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

"foreheads" primary search results are listed below along with dictionary aides, FAQs, and LexiConc.

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[markalan]

Here is a challenge to the MOTB literalists.

The word "foreheads" occurs 8 times in the KJV ... in which verses is the word used literally?

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

"foreheads" primary search results are listed below along with dictionary aides, FAQs, and LexiConc.

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[David in NJ]

Rev 11 is about the temple to be destroyed and the 3½ years (42 months) are exactly matching history, the siege of Jerusalem started in AD 66, do the math.

4These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. 5And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

 

[David in NJ]

Do you not need to keep praying for understanding yourself? Do you think the seal of God is a physical seal?

Satan's seal is.

 

[David in NJ]

It’s not. I said the temple was the temple in the earthly Jerusalem, the one destroyed in 70 AD.

No, you said that the earthly temple was replaced with the heavenly temple = Revelation chapter 11

 

[IndianaRob]

No, you said that the earthly temple was replaced with the heavenly temple = Revelation chapter 11

Here's what I said.

I say it's literal. The true temple is our body, so Rev 11's temple and city have to be literal, referring to earthly Jerusalem—which was destroyed and replaced by the true temple, our bodies, and heavenly Jerusalem. Which is plenty of proof Rev 11 is not talking about something in the future.

I was saying:
- The temple in Rev 11 has to be *literal* (earthly Jerusalem)
- It was destroyed and replaced by the true temple (believers' bodies) and heavenly Jerusalem
- This proves Rev 11 is about the past, not future

 

[David in NJ]

Here's what I said.

I was saying:
- The temple in Rev 11 has to be *literal* (earthly Jerusalem)
- It was destroyed and replaced by the true temple (believers' bodies) and heavenly Jerusalem
- This proves Rev 11 is about the past, not future

Now please READ carefully and then EVALUATE by submitting to the WORD and let the WORD Interpret.

1Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

4These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. 5And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

 

[IndianaRob]

Now please READ carefully and then EVALUATE by submitting to the WORD and let the WORD Interpret.

1Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

4These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. 5And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

Let me state this more plainly, because I don't think I've made it clear.

The temple in verse 1 is the literal temple in Jerusalem — the one standing when John wrote, and the one destroyed in AD 70. Not a symbol, not the church, not a future rebuilt structure. That's why John can measure it and why it has an outer court to leave out.

The bit I've mentioned about heavenly Jerusalem is a *separate observation*, not part of my reading of this passage.

So when you post verses 1-6 and tell me to let the Word interpret, I'm not sure what you're getting at. A standing, measurable temple with a courtyard is exactly what my reading is.

 

[WPM]

So you can take the MOTB & still go to Heaven ?
List the verses please.
9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

That is is the reprobation that comes with rejecting the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Interpret Scripture with Scripture. Do not invent your own theology through your opinions of the book of Revelation.