Destruction of Sodom and Egypt in today's time:

[Raccoon1010]

Sodom and Egypt, 2nd book of Enoch:

2 Enoch

I was reading the 2nd book of Enoch who was found no more on earth.

Genesis 5:

21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.


Hebrews 11:

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
---
And in the 10th heaven is God's almighty area and also his private area. And some visit.
For his creations there area also 3 upper heavens: 9,8,7 of peace and paradise for those that do good charity towards others and serve and worship God
Also 3 middle heavens 6,5,4 where in the lower area (5th heaven) the giant dark angels of Egypt
And the lower 3 heavens 3,2,1 where sexual crimes happen of the dark angels of Sodom.

---

2nd heaven: dark angels of Sodom (sexual crimes)

About how Enoch was taken to the 2nd heaven. Word “6.”|
And those men picked me up and brought me up to the second heaven. And they showed me, and I saw a darkness greater than earthly darkness. And there I perceived prisoners under guard, hanging up, waiting for the measureless judgment. •And those angels have the appearance of darkness itself, more than earthly darkness. And unceasingly they made weeping, all the day long. And I said to the men who were with me, “Why are these ones being tormented unceasingly?” •Those men answered me, “These are those who turned away from the LORD, who did not obey the LORD’s commandments, but of their own will plotted together and turned away with their prince and with those who are under restraint in the fifth heaven.” •And I felt very sorry for them; and those angels bowed down to me and said to me, “Man of God, pray for us to the LORD!”
And I answered them and said, “Who am I, a mortal man, that I should pray for angels? Who knows where I am going and what will confront me? Or who indeed will pray for me?”

5th heaven: dark angels of Egypt (slavers)

About the taking of Enoch to the fifth heaven. Word “17.”|
And those men took me up on their wings and placed me on the fifth heaven. And I saw there many innumerable armies called Grigori. And their appearance was like the appearance of a human being, and their size was larger than that of large giants. •And their faces were dejected, and the silence of their mouths was perpetual. And there was no liturgy in the fifth heaven. 〈|And I said to the men who were with me, “What is the explanation that these ones are so very dejected, and their faces miserable, and their mouths silent? And (why) is there no liturgy in this heaven?”|〉 •And those men answered me, “These are the Grigori, who turned aside from the LORD, 200 myriads, together with their prince Satanail. And similar to them are those who went down as prisoners in their train, who are in the second heaven, imprisoned in great darkness.
And three of them descended to the earth from the LORD’s Throne onto the place Ermon. And they broke the promise on the shoulder of Mount Ermon. And they saw the daughters of men, how beautiful they were; and they took wives for themselves, and the earth was defiled by their deeds.
Who 〈and the wives of men created great evil〉 in the entire time of this age acted lawlessly and practiced miscegenation and gave birth to giants and great monsters and great enmity.
And that is why God has judged them with a great judgment; and they mourn their brothers, and they will be outrages on the great day of the LORD.” •And I said to the Grigori, “I have seen your brothers and their deeds and their torments 〈and〉 their great 〈prayers〉; and I have prayed for them. But the LORD has sentenced them under the earth until heaven and earth are ended forever.” •And I said, “Why are you waiting for your brothers? And why don’t you perform the liturgy before the face of the LORD? Start up your liturgy, and perform the liturgy before the face of the LORD, so that you do not enrage your LORD 〈God〉 to the limit.”
And they responded to my recommendations, and they stood in four regiments in this heaven. And behold, while I was standing with those men, 4 trumpets trumpeted in unison with a great sound, and the Grigori burst into singing in unison. And their voice rose in front of the face of the LORD, piteously and touchingly.

Please pray for them and remember Babylon also in your prayers.

---

Blessed are you all whom deny not Christ Jesus. Sodom and Egypt are to be dismantled and destroyed decreed the lord. As in days like his ministry here on earth.

Peace be to you all, may you bring many unto Christ.

Thanks,

Devin

 

[Raccoon1010]

In the 2nd book of Enoch there appears 10 heavens.

The 10th is where God lives.

Below that in glory are 7,8,9 where heaven as we call it are, a sort of 3 heavenly holy areas for those that sought after God and Christ the messiah.

Below appear the arch angel's gates high above earth, the entrance near the stars of heaven. So that 4,5,6 form a sort of earthly area or God's foot stool of his throne. That is where man's earthly experience exists. Wherein the giants of Egypt were seen as dark angel beings.

Below that are the dark angel beings of Sodom and is where the underworld exists. Christianity calls that realm in judgement and prison as sheol or hell.

But the visit of Enoch was unique and special for him and his family, a gift to him from a loving God and for his family.

Although my above interpretation of the 2nd book of Enoch passages is not exactly correct, perhaps it holds good truth to it.

The areas of spirit prison and the torment of the dark angels of Sodom and Egypt does not end until God is finished with things far in the future.

Yet no matter how you look at it, to the kind and loving God, God the Father, it is described as heaven, all 10 glorious areas. Wherein some areas God deals with his enemies and those that need chastisement.

He is very slow to anger and full of love, even when it hurts us, whether thru our sins or those that sin against us.

 

[6 Stories]

The 10 heavens of 2 Enoch disagree with the Bible. 2 Corinthians 12:2-4
"
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

 

[Raccoon1010]

The 10 heavens of 2 Enoch disagree with the Bible. 2 Corinthians 12:2-4
"
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Good morning in Christ,

Please review again the accounts of the third heaven of Paul, and how it relates to the third heaven as also paradise in the 2nd book of Enoch, noting it is more like the bosom of Abraham before spirits are resurrected but go to peaceful rest in paradise,

Also note that in the second book of Enoch that the 3rd heaven paradise is in between corruptable and not corruptable:

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2 Enoch

2nd Enoch:

8 |About the taking of Enoch to the 3rd heaven. Word “7.”|



And those men took me from there, and they brought me up to the third heaven, and set me down |there|. Then I looked downward, and I saw Paradise. And that place is inconceivably pleasant.

And I saw the trees in full flower. And their fruits were ripe and pleasant-smelling, with every food in yield and giving off profusely a pleasant fragrance.



And in the midst (of them was) the tree of life, at that place where the LORD takes a rest when he goes into paradise. And that tree is indescribable for pleasantness and fine fragrance, and more beautiful than any (other)



created thing that exists. •And from every direction it has an appearance which is good-looking and crimson, and with the form of fire. And it covers the whole of Paradise. And it has something of every orchard tree and of every fruit. And its root is in Paradise at the exit that leads to the earth.

And paradise is in between the corruptible and the incorruptible. And two streams come forth, one a source of honey and milk, and a source which produces oil and wine. And it is divided into 4 parts, and they go around with a quiet movement. And they come out into the paradise of Edem, between the corruptible and the incorruptible. And from there they pass along and divide into 40 parts. And it proceeds in descent along the earth, and they have a revolution in their cycle, just like the other atmospheric elements.

And there is no unfruitful tree there, and every tree is well fruited, and every place is blessed.

And there are 300 angels, very bright, who look after Paradise; and with never-ceasing voice and pleasant singing they worship the LORD every day and hour. And I said, “How very pleasant is this place!” And those men said to me:

9 |The revelation to Enoch of the place of those who are righteous and kind. Word “8.”|



“This place, Enoch, has been prepared for the righteous,



who suffer every kind of calamity in their life

and who afflict their souls,

and who avert their eyes from injustice,

and who carry out righteous judgment,

and who give bread to the hungry,

and who cover the naked with clothing,

and who lift up the fallen

and who help the injured and the orphans,

and who walk without a defect before the face of the LORD,

and who worship him only –



even for them this place has been prepared as an eternal inheritance.”

---

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 12 - King James Version

It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew...

www.biblegateway.com

2 Corinthians 12:

12 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

---

Thank You,

Devin

 

[6 Stories]

Devin said,
"Below that in glory are 7,8,9 where heaven as we call it are, a sort of 3 heavenly holy areas for those that sought after God and Christ the messiah.

Below appear the arch angel's gates high above earth, the entrance near the stars of heaven. So that 4,5,6 form a sort of earthly area or God's foot stool of his throne. That is where man's earthly experience exists. Wherein the giants of Egypt were seen as dark angel beings.

Below that are the dark angel beings of Sodom and is where the underworld exists. Christianity calls that realm in judgement and prison as sheol or hell."

I don't know anything about 2 Enoch. You said from Enoch 2 that there were 10 heavens, with number 3 as "hell."
Now you say from Enoch 2 that heaven number 3 is "paradise."
I just don't understand how heaven number 3 could be both paradise and hell.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Devin said,
"Below that in glory are 7,8,9 where heaven as we call it are, a sort of 3 heavenly holy areas for those that sought after God and Christ the messiah.

Below appear the arch angel's gates high above earth, the entrance near the stars of heaven. So that 4,5,6 form a sort of earthly area or God's foot stool of his throne. That is where man's earthly experience exists. Wherein the giants of Egypt were seen as dark angel beings.

Below that are the dark angel beings of Sodom and is where the underworld exists. Christianity calls that realm in judgement and prison as sheol or hell."

I don't know anything about 2 Enoch. You said from Enoch 2 that there were 10 heavens, with number 3 as "hell."
Now you say from Enoch 2 that heaven number 3 is "paradise."
I just don't understand how heaven number 3 could be both paradise and hell.

Good morning,

Most Christians I have talk to believe in paradise as the bosom of Abraham. A concept taught well before Christ's life on earth. Israel believed in that place, a place of rest, a holy spiritual place. But the Israel of Jesus's time were new to the concept of the resurrection of the body.

That is what I echoed above a few posts up from the second book of Enoch.

In that 3rd heaven it is spiritual paradise, the far north it is darkness and torture. The great abyss of death and hell I think.

But I had forgot to echoed that text. Here it is:

---

10 |Here they showed Enoch the frightful place and various tortures. Word “9.”|



And those men carried me

to the northern region; and they showed me there a very frightful place;

and all kinds of torture and torment are in that place, cruel darkness and lightless gloom. And there is no light there, and a black fire blazes up perpetually, with a river of fire that comes out over the whole place, fire here, freezing ice there, and it dries up and it freezes;

and very cruel places of detention and dark and merciless angels, carrying instruments of atrocities torturing without pity.

And I said, “Woe, woe! How very frightful this place is!” And those men said to me, “This place, Enoch, has been prepared for those who do not glorify God, who practice on the earth the sin |which is against nature, which is child corruption in the anus in the manner of Sodom|, of witchcraft, enchantments, divinations, trafficking with demons, who boast about their evil deeds – |stealing, lying, insulting, coveting, resentment, fornication, murder| – •and who steal the souls of men secretly, seizing the poor by the throat,

taking away their possessions,

enriching themselves from the possessions of others, defrauding them; who, when they are able to provide sustenance, bring about the death of the hungry by starvation; and, when they are able to provide clothing, take away the last garment of the naked; •who do not acknowledge their Creator, but bow down to idols which have no souls, which can neither see nor hear, vain gods; constructing images, and bowing down to vile things made by hands – for all these this place has been prepared as an eternal reward.”

 

[Raccoon1010]

Devin said,
"Below that in glory are 7,8,9 where heaven as we call it are, a sort of 3 heavenly holy areas for those that sought after God and Christ the messiah.

Below appear the arch angel's gates high above earth, the entrance near the stars of heaven. So that 4,5,6 form a sort of earthly area or God's foot stool of his throne. That is where man's earthly experience exists. Wherein the giants of Egypt were seen as dark angel beings.

Below that are the dark angel beings of Sodom and is where the underworld exists. Christianity calls that realm in judgement and prison as sheol or hell."

I don't know anything about 2 Enoch. You said from Enoch 2 that there were 10 heavens, with number 3 as "hell."
Now you say from Enoch 2 that heaven number 3 is "paradise."
I just don't understand how heaven number 3 could be both paradise and hell.

You can also reference the parable of the rich man and Lazarus:

---

Luke 16:

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Sodom and Egypt, 2nd book of Enoch:

2 Enoch

I was reading the 2nd book of Enoch who was found no more on earth.

Genesis 5:

21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.


Hebrews 11:

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
---
And in the 10th heaven is God's almighty area and also his private area. And some visit.
For his creations there area also 3 upper heavens: 9,8,7 of peace and paradise for those that do good charity towards others and serve and worship God
Also 3 middle heavens 6,5,4 where in the lower area (5th heaven) the giant dark angels of Egypt
And the lower 3 heavens 3,2,1 where sexual crimes happen of the dark angels of Sodom.

---

2nd heaven: dark angels of Sodom (sexual crimes)

About how Enoch was taken to the 2nd heaven. Word “6.”|
And those men picked me up and brought me up to the second heaven. And they showed me, and I saw a darkness greater than earthly darkness. And there I perceived prisoners under guard, hanging up, waiting for the measureless judgment. •And those angels have the appearance of darkness itself, more than earthly darkness. And unceasingly they made weeping, all the day long. And I said to the men who were with me, “Why are these ones being tormented unceasingly?” •Those men answered me, “These are those who turned away from the LORD, who did not obey the LORD’s commandments, but of their own will plotted together and turned away with their prince and with those who are under restraint in the fifth heaven.” •And I felt very sorry for them; and those angels bowed down to me and said to me, “Man of God, pray for us to the LORD!”
And I answered them and said, “Who am I, a mortal man, that I should pray for angels? Who knows where I am going and what will confront me? Or who indeed will pray for me?”

5th heaven: dark angels of Egypt (slavers)

About the taking of Enoch to the fifth heaven. Word “17.”|
And those men took me up on their wings and placed me on the fifth heaven. And I saw there many innumerable armies called Grigori. And their appearance was like the appearance of a human being, and their size was larger than that of large giants. •And their faces were dejected, and the silence of their mouths was perpetual. And there was no liturgy in the fifth heaven. 〈|And I said to the men who were with me, “What is the explanation that these ones are so very dejected, and their faces miserable, and their mouths silent? And (why) is there no liturgy in this heaven?”|〉 •And those men answered me, “These are the Grigori, who turned aside from the LORD, 200 myriads, together with their prince Satanail. And similar to them are those who went down as prisoners in their train, who are in the second heaven, imprisoned in great darkness.
And three of them descended to the earth from the LORD’s Throne onto the place Ermon. And they broke the promise on the shoulder of Mount Ermon. And they saw the daughters of men, how beautiful they were; and they took wives for themselves, and the earth was defiled by their deeds.
Who 〈and the wives of men created great evil〉 in the entire time of this age acted lawlessly and practiced miscegenation and gave birth to giants and great monsters and great enmity.
And that is why God has judged them with a great judgment; and they mourn their brothers, and they will be outrages on the great day of the LORD.” •And I said to the Grigori, “I have seen your brothers and their deeds and their torments 〈and〉 their great 〈prayers〉; and I have prayed for them. But the LORD has sentenced them under the earth until heaven and earth are ended forever.” •And I said, “Why are you waiting for your brothers? And why don’t you perform the liturgy before the face of the LORD? Start up your liturgy, and perform the liturgy before the face of the LORD, so that you do not enrage your LORD 〈God〉 to the limit.”
And they responded to my recommendations, and they stood in four regiments in this heaven. And behold, while I was standing with those men, 4 trumpets trumpeted in unison with a great sound, and the Grigori burst into singing in unison. And their voice rose in front of the face of the LORD, piteously and touchingly.

Please pray for them and remember Babylon also in your prayers.

---

Blessed are you all whom deny not Christ Jesus. Sodom and Egypt are to be dismantled and destroyed decreed the lord. As in days like his ministry here on earth.

Peace be to you all, may you bring many unto Christ.

Thanks,

Devin

As per the previous discussion of Enoch who was not found any more, there are for his vision and guides of heaven, 10 heavens,

Further divided into 4 areas:

10th heaven, The Fathers private area where his children at times visit when requested

9th, 8th, 7th heavens are the Holy angels and beings. Arrayed in white robes, where the children of God live in peace. The heavenly kingdoms. These are they that accepted and served Christ our lord God.

6th, 5th, 4th heavens, described with areas with tormented dark giant angels of Egypt. In there are the children of men. The earthly kingdom. Did these beings get the law, eye for eye, tooth for tooth.

3rd, 2nd, 1st heavens wherein there are areas with horribly tormented dark angels of Sodom. That is where God deals with the children of Satan. I think those are the underworld areas, under earth.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Hebrews 11:

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.

34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Jude:

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[TribulationSigns]

book of Enoch:

The Book of Enoch?! Oh brother.

Biblical believing Christians should be very cautious about reading the Book of Enoch as though it were Scripture. It is NOT part of the biblical canon, and there is no command in Scripture telling Christians to study it as an authoritative revelation from God.

Yes, Jude mentions a prophecy attributed to Enoch, but quoting or referring to a statement does not make the entire source inspired Scripture. Paul even quoted pagan poets without treating their writings as Scripture (Acts 17:28; Titus 1:12). The same principle applies here!

Our authority is not a collection of ancient religious writings that happen to contain interesting material. Our authority is the Word of God—the canonical Scriptures. If a teaching cannot be established from Scripture, we should not build doctrine upon it.

The danger with the Book of Enoch is that people often use it to fill in details where Scripture itself is deliberately restrained, especially concerning angels, demons, the Nephilim, the heavenly realm, and end-times events. Once extra-biblical writings become the lens through which someone interprets Scripture, Scripture is no longer interpreting Scripture—the extra-biblical book is. Selah!

Christians should therefore ask a simple question: “Can I establish this doctrine from the Bible?”

If the answer is no, then it should not be treated as biblical truth simply because the Book of Enoch says it.

Read Scripture. Test everything by Scripture. Build doctrine from Scripture.

“To the law and to the testimony!” — Isaiah 8:20

Therefore, your doctrine concerning Sodom and Egypt is wrong, @Raccoon1010!

 

[Raccoon1010]

The Book of Enoch?! Oh brother.

Biblical believing Christians should be very cautious about reading the Book of Enoch as though it were Scripture. It is NOT part of the biblical canon, and there is no command in Scripture telling Christians to study it as an authoritative revelation from God.

Yes, Jude mentions a prophecy attributed to Enoch, but quoting or referring to a statement does not make the entire source inspired Scripture. Paul even quoted pagan poets without treating their writings as Scripture (Acts 17:28; Titus 1:12). The same principle applies here!

Our authority is not a collection of ancient religious writings that happen to contain interesting material. Our authority is the Word of God—the canonical Scriptures. If a teaching cannot be established from Scripture, we should not build doctrine upon it.

The danger with the Book of Enoch is that people often use it to fill in details where Scripture itself is deliberately restrained, especially concerning angels, demons, the Nephilim, the heavenly realm, and end-times events. Once extra-biblical writings become the lens through which someone interprets Scripture, Scripture is no longer interpreting Scripture—the extra-biblical book is. Selah!

Christians should therefore ask a simple question: “Can I establish this doctrine from the Bible?”

If the answer is no, then it should not be treated as biblical truth simply because the Book of Enoch says it.

Read Scripture. Test everything by Scripture. Build doctrine from Scripture.

“To the law and to the testimony!” — Isaiah 8:20

Therefore, your doctrine concerning Sodom and Egypt is wrong, @Raccoon1010!

Good morning,

For us to understand scripture given us and handed down to us, we must first know the history.

First Israel was under Roman and Greek rule with some Jewish Israelites having been warned throughout the ages of destruction befalling them due to their defiance towards God's laws, also his holy messages to Israel from his prophets and witnesses. From Sodom to Egypt and Babylon.

All of that led to Jesus being mocked and killed in front of them that followed him. The persecutions that followed his death and resurrection followed.

Paul eventually on to Rome to escape death in Jerusalem.

John receiving revelation on the island of Patmos for Asia.

Many Scripture texts put in caves found later as the dead sea scrolls.

Who chose which scrolls to put into a book of scrolls, later interpreted into old English and given as the Bible?

---

The point is this: the selection of accepted holy word from ancient scrolls is only as good as them selected by God to receive them.

Meaning those that know Jesus also know his words. Those that know his father and the holy spirit also know him that sent Jesus. And they are reclaimed by Christ and brought by him to the father, also thru the holy spirit.

The holy spirit has words for man that is so vast that no book could contain them save for God's book of life.

 

[Raccoon1010]

John 21:

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

 

[TribulationSigns]

For us to understand scripture given us and handed down to us, we must first know the history.

So when you say, "know the history." The question is what history? Just make sure it is BIBLICAL history, and NOT the ramblings of secular historians or reprobates like Josephus.

I place no emphasis on personal opinion or private interpretations. As for history--if it's not biblical history recorded within the pages of the completed Holy Bible, it cannot be of greater authority than the Holy Scriptures.

The Word of God is the "Ultimate" authority over the Christian's life, faith, and practice. Sola Scripture, the Bible alone, is the supreme, unchallenged, word of the Living God. It is subject to the words of no man, and of no thing. If you should take away from the Scriptures, you're doomed, and if you should add to them you're doomed. Why? Because His Words are the absolute sufficient authority over all, in itself (Psalm 119:160). It is 100% true and trustworthy where and every word, jot and tittle is authoritative so that "ALL" His judgments are perfect and endures forever for all men. Not to be dismissed as "just some man's interpretation."

Revelation 22:18-19

• "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
• And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Every word is so divinely authoritive, that you can't add or remove a single word without coming under the wrath of God for it. His word was not authored by private interpretation and cannot be negated by private interpretation, a historian's babblings, extra books or some scholar saying "it ain't necessarily so." Selah!

 

[Raccoon1010]

Some take off their sandals on holy ground, some do not, some trample underfoot that which is precious to the lord, that includes salvation like a pearl of great price, while some trample the children of Israel also.

God would not have us speak arrogantly about that which we do not have witness of. But rather stay silent and move on. Some are wise to do so.

God will reclaim those that are taught by the children of men to despise the children of God, eventually.

Many false doctrines and teachings are among the many denominations of Christ's churches. That is obvious in the fact that many denominations with many different teachings exist.

Those false teachings and false witness are of those taught by false spirits and men, passed down to children. Those teachings suite what they want or see as desired to be taught, when the lord was absent among them. But always watching they are Father, Son and The Holy Ghost.

Many do wait valiantly to proclaim the truth of God, when they receive his word from him God.

From Jude:

Jude:

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

 

[TribulationSigns]

God would not have us speak arrogantly about that which we do not have witness of. But rather stay silent and move on. Some are wise to do so....

....From Jude:

Jude:

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

You are actually proving my point rather than answering it.

YOU were the one bringing "extra-biblical" material and interpretations into the discussion to begin with. You are appealing to ideas and traditions outside the completed Scriptures—including the Book of Enoch—and then attempting to use those sources to establish or reinforce your interpretation. That is precisely the kind of thing I was addressing in my original comment. If your argument depends upon extra-biblical writings, then those are the things that need to be sent away—not the authority of Scripture.

And your appeal to Jude 9–10 does not establish what you seem to think it establishes. In fact, I don't think you have adequately understood what Jude is actually saying.

Jude 9 says:

“Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.”

Do you actually know who Michael is? And the devil? What does the body of Moses represent that they disputed over? Why did the Lord rebuke the devil?

Look, my original point was very simple: the completed Holy Scriptures are the supreme authority for Christian faith and doctrine. If you disagree with that, then address that argument directly.

Don't change the subject. Don't appeal to Enoch as an authority. Don't substitute extra-biblical traditions for Scripture. And don't weaponize Jude against someone simply because you don't agree with what they say.

If Scrpture is sufficient, then let Scripture speak for itself, bud!

Selah

 

[Raccoon1010]

Hello @TribulationSigns,

Hopefully I did not offend you with my last post. The thread is actually ongoing signs of the times and related to Sodom and Egypt spiritually. The thread starts with Enoch. I see you desire to refute the Scripture from Enoch. I can't help you there.

I do not know if you are "sola scriptora" as they call it. Or that you think God wrote the Bible and does not speak to his people. I've seen different versions from members here.

Some of us believe in ongoing gifts of prophecy, revelations, dreams, visions as they are gifts of the spirit.

But Enoch writings are not recent anyways.

The issue explained in the first posts in this thread are nothing new in fact. No matter what Scriptures you accept, Jesus's words are clear for Sodom and Egypt and those that harm Jesus and his people, those that harm little ones, those that looked the other way when his people suffered. Those that deceive to kill Christ, his followers to remain in authority over people of the earth. Those that mock, shame, wound and kill his servants and him Jesus. Those that desired sin and places that provide it in the last days.

It's in the Enoch text I supplied and echoed in the old and new testament as well.

Look, my original point was very simple: the completed Holy Scriptures are the supreme authority for Christian faith and doctrine. If you disagree with that, then address that argument directly.

Some go to church to feel the Holy spirit and love ongoing revelations there, and stories of miracles from people's testimonies. Some also serve Christ and his father and the holy spirit for the same reason. They love and need God, and they get to know him and his ways thru his spirit.

Don't change the subject. Don't appeal to Enoch as an authority. Don't substitute extra-biblical traditions for Scripture. And don't weaponize Jude against someone simply because you don't agree with what they say.

The point I made in Jude was clear, no one should be found mocking others and their testimonies of God, by speaking against or promoting doubt in God's word to them. If they choose to share his messages in his spirit to them, it is up to them and the lord. It is not up to mankind. We do not restrain God's word, we embrace and often share him with others.

And that is the lesson from Jesus and his followers dying to continue God's love on earth. They attempted to silence and promote doubt in their witnesses. When they couldn't they were killed for their witness and testimonies. Unless God finally acted, and he did. Old Rome burnt, Pompeii was destroyed, cities dropped into the seas, etc.

So please be respectful. As it hurts, not only God's people but also his enemies.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Hopefully I did not offend you with my last post. The thread is actually ongoing signs of the times and related to Sodom and Egypt spiritually. The thread starts with Enoch. I see you desire to refute the Scripture from Enoch. I can't help you there.

I do not know if you are "sola scriptora" as they call it. Or that you think God wrote the Bible and does not speak to his people. I've seen different versions from members here.

Some of us believe in ongoing gifts of prophecy, revelations, dreams, visions as they are gifts of the spirit.

But Enoch writings are not recent anyways.

The issue explained in the first posts in this thread are nothing new in fact. No matter what Scriptures you accept, Jesus's words are clear for Sodom and Egypt and those that harm Jesus and his people, those that harm little ones, those that looked the other way when his people suffered. Those that deceive to kill Christ, his followers to remain in authority over people of the earth. Those that mock, shame, wound and kill his servants and him Jesus. Those that desired sin and places that provide it in the last days.

It's in the Enoch text I supplied and echoed in the old and new testament as well.

No offense taken at all. I simply pray that the Lord will give you greater understanding of what Scripture actually teaches concerning these things.

Yes, I am Sola Scriptura. I believe Scripture is the final and sufficient authority for doctrine and for interpreting Scripture. That does not mean I deny that God works, guides, or speaks to His people. It means that no alleged prophecy, revelation, dream, vision, or extra-biblical writing has authority to establish doctrine or reinterpret what Scripture teaches.

As for the book of Enoch, you said, “I can't help you there.” That's fine—I don't need help from Enoch. The fundamental problem is that Enoch is not part of the biblical canon, so I have no reason to use it as an interpretive authority for understanding Christ's words or the imagery of Revelation.

You can certainly study Enoch as an ancient historical or religious document, but that is very different from treating it as inspired Scripture or using it as the key to interpreting biblical prophecy.

And this is where I believe your approach becomes dangerous. You are taking an extra-biblical writing and using it to establish an interpretation of biblical passages, when Scripture itself is sufficient for understanding those passages. We don't need Enoch to tell us what Jesus meant by “Sodom” or “Egypt.” We need to examine the biblical context, the immediate passage, the rest of Scripture, and how the Bible itself uses those terms and imagery.

I also think there is some confusion regarding the gifts of prophecy, revelation, dreams, and visions. The fact that Scripture records these gifts does not mean that every claimed prophecy, revelation, dream, or vision today carries biblical authority or can be used to establish doctrine. Any claim of revelation must be tested against the already-revealed Word of God. It certainly cannot be used to override, supplement, or reinterpret Scripture.

The issue isn't whether Enoch contains ideas that resemble things found in the Old and New Testaments. Ancient writings can contain truth, echoes of biblical concepts, or even material that influenced later Jewish thought. That still does not make them Scripture.

My concern is that you are seeking an extra-biblical key to unlock biblical prophecy, when Scripture itself is sufficient.

So no, I am not offended. I simply disagree strongly with the method. I would encourage you to set Enoch aside for a moment and allow Scripture to interpret Scripture. If the interpretation is truly biblical, it should be demonstrated from the biblical text itself—not dependent upon an extra-biblical book.

Some go to church to feel the Holy spirit and love ongoing revelations there, and stories of miracles from people's testimonies. Some also serve Christ and his father and the holy spirit for the same reason. They love and need God, and they get to know him and his ways thru his spirit.

Huh? to "feel" the Holy Spirit? And "love" ongoing revelations? and stories of miracles? Clearly you are delusional with these doctrines.

The point I made in Jude was clear, no one should be found mocking others and their testimonies of God, by speaking against or promoting doubt in God's word to them. If they choose to share his messages in his spirit to them, it is up to them and the lord. It is not up to mankind. We do not restrain God's word, we embrace and often share him with others.

This is NOT the issue here, and I think you are conflating respect for a person with acceptance of their interpretation or claimed revelation.

We are not commanded to accept someone's “testimony” simply because they claim it came from God. Scripture commands us to test everything and to distinguish truth from error. The standard is not, “Don't question someone's spiritual experience.” The standard is God's Word.

If someone presents an interpretation, prophecy, revelation, dream, vision, or extra-biblical writing and claims that it gives us understanding of biblical truth, then yes—it is absolutely appropriate to examine it, challenge it, and reject it if it contradicts or goes beyond Scripture. That isn't “restraining God's word.” It is submitting every claim to the authority of God's Word.

And that is the lesson from Jesus and his followers dying to continue God's love on earth.

Love is not about tolerating others with false doctrines and teaching! Do you really know what is the true meaning of God's Love? Truth!

They attempted to silence and promote doubt in their witnesses. When they couldn't they were killed for their witness and testimonies. Unless God finally acted, and he did. Old Rome burnt, Pompeii was destroyed, cities dropped into the seas, etc.

So please be respectful. As it hurts, not only God's people but also his enemies.

If you present an interpretation of Jude, Revelation, or any other passage, I am free—and, frankly, obligated—to compare that interpretation with Scripture.

What concerns me even more is the way you are connecting Enoch, your interpretation of Jude, the deaths of witnesses, Rome, Pompeii, and cities supposedly falling into the sea as though these things collectively prove your interpretation. That is not how biblical interpretation works.

Historical catastrophes are not automatically prophetic fulfillments simply because they resemble imagery found in Scripture. Rome's decline, the destruction of Pompeii, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, or cities being destroyed do not become proof of a particular interpretation of Revelation merely because you connect the dots afterward. That is speculation, not biblical exegesis.

And Enoch does not become authoritative because you believe its message agrees with Scripture. The direction of authority matters. We don't take Enoch and then use it to tell us what Scripture means. We take Scripture and use Scripture to interpret Scripture.

You keep appealing to “testimonies” and asking me to be respectful, but you're overlooking something fundamental: the Bereans were commended for examining what they were taught against the Scriptures (Acts 17:11). Testing a claim is not disrespect. Testing a claim is biblical discernment. Selah!

 

[Pierac]

Sodom and Gomorrah: The Promise of Restoration

Sodom and Gomorrah faced destruction by fire as divine judgment for their actions. The text records no warning of eternal punishment beyond death. What does Ezekiel says about their ultimate fate?

Ezekiel 16:55 (ESV) As for your sisters, Sodom and her daughters shall return to their former state, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former state, and you and your daughters shall return to your former state.

Sodom shall return to its former state. This is not the language of irrevocable damnation; it is the language of restoration. If even Sodom, held up throughout Scripture as a byword for wickedness, is promised a return to her former state, the scope of divine mercy is broader than condemnation.

Ezekiel 16:60-63 (ESV) ...yet I will remember my covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish for you an everlasting covenant... I will establish my covenant with you, and you shall know that I am the LORD, that you may remember and be confounded, and never open your mouth again because of your shame, when I atone for you for all that you have done, declares the Lord GOD.

The passage ends not with condemnation but with atonement. The shame of Jerusalem’s wickedness is fully acknowledged, and fully covered, and Sodom’s restoration stands inside that same oracle of mercy. The promise is corporate and prophetic, addressed to cities and their people as a whole; what it implies for individuals beyond death is a further step, and this post weighs that step openly. As a result, it stands as one of the most remarkable passages in the prophetic literature, and one of the least cited.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Sodom and Gomorrah: The Promise of Restoration

Sodom and Gomorrah faced destruction by fire as divine judgment for their actions. The text records no warning of eternal punishment beyond death. What does Ezekiel says about their ultimate fate?

Ezekiel 16:55 (ESV) As for your sisters, Sodom and her daughters shall return to their former state, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former state, and you and your daughters shall return to your former state.

Sodom shall return to its former state. This is not the language of irrevocable damnation; it is the language of restoration. If even Sodom, held up throughout Scripture as a byword for wickedness, is promised a return to her former state, the scope of divine mercy is broader than condemnation.

Ezekiel 16:60-63 (ESV) ...yet I will remember my covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish for you an everlasting covenant... I will establish my covenant with you, and you shall know that I am the LORD, that you may remember and be confounded, and never open your mouth again because of your shame, when I atone for you for all that you have done, declares the Lord GOD.

The passage ends not with condemnation but with atonement. The shame of Jerusalem’s wickedness is fully acknowledged, and fully covered, and Sodom’s restoration stands inside that same oracle of mercy. The promise is corporate and prophetic, addressed to cities and their people as a whole; what it implies for individuals beyond death is a further step, and this post weighs that step openly. As a result, it stands as one of the most remarkable passages in the prophetic literature, and one of the least cited.

Though sin was rampant in S&G as it was before the flood there are prominent teachers who believe the TOTAL destruction of S&G & the flood was due to Gen 6:2, Jude 1:6 "hybrid" humans