WATCH!

[Scott Downey]

Daniel 7, shows when His people inherit everything under the whole heaven, referring to the earth

27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’


Daniel 7

7 “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking [c]pompous words.

Vision of the Ancient of Days​

9 “I watched till thrones were [d]put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The [e]court was seated,
And the books were opened.
11 “I watched then because of the sound of the [f]pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

13 “I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.

15 “I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit [g]within my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16 I came near to one of those who stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of these things: 17 ‘Those great beasts, which are four, are four [h]kings which arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.’

19 “Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20 and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke [i]pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.

21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

23 “Thus he said:

‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute[j] the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.
26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
28 “This is the end of the [k]account. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts greatly troubled me, and my countenance changed; but I kept the matter in my heart.”

 

[The Light]

There is no 3rd time coming. I know plenty of people on this forum agree with this.

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. So there has to be a third coming when He comes with the armies of heaven on white horses.

The salvation of His people at the rapture, after the great tribulation

Right, the rapture which occurs at the 6th seal.

Don't forget the rapture of the Church which occurs in an hour that you think not.

 

[Scott Downey]

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. So there has to be a third coming when He comes with the armies of heaven on white horses.


Right, the rapture which occurs at the 6th seal.

Don't forget the rapture of the Church which occurs in an hour that you think not.

The way I read revelation, yes the sixth seal is the end in Chapter 6, as Christ does return after those cosmic things occur.
Revelation is time jumping in chapter 7, it moves back in time to other visions for greater details.

The book is not a pure linear timeline from start to finish. It reveals stories in the story in greater details.

 

[The Light]

The way I read revelation, yes the sixth seal is the end in Chapter 6, as Christ does return after those cosmic things occur.

Agreed

Revelation is time jumping in chapter 7, it moves back in time to other visions for greater details.

Chapter 7 begins with the sealing of the 144,000. These 144,000 are sealed earlier in the first six seals. We can tell this from Revelation 14.

Then we see the great multitude which are those raptured before the seals are opened (the Church) and those raptured at the 6th seal which are of the 12 tribes.

The book is not a pure linear timeline from start to finish. It reveals stories in the story in greater details.

Exactly correct.

However, I am not sure you understand the correct timeline.

 

[CrowCross]

Show us any Scripture that teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by a tribulation period of any length, followed by a third coming of the Lord?

Acts 1:11

 

[CrowCross]

Do you have any scriptural support that the day of the Lord is 7 years of tribulation? Nope.

LOL...you said nope..so I guess I don't.
I wish I could be as spiritually inspired as you and understand the tribulation. But, I guess I'm not and should understand whatever you proclaim MUST be the truth.

 

[CrowCross]

The salvation of His people at the rapture, after the great tribulation

No...1 thes 4 is pre-trib.
No white horse. Giddy-up.

 

[The Light]

LOL...you said nope..so I guess I don't.
I wish I could be as spiritually inspired as you and understand the tribulation. But, I guess I'm not and should understand whatever you proclaim MUST be the truth.

I keep hearing from everyone that the tribulation is 7 years long and yet NO ONE can produce a scripture that shows this. If you think that you have one I'd like to see it.

 

[CrowCross]

I keep hearing from everyone that the tribulation is 7 years long and yet NO ONE can produce a scripture that shows this. If you think that you have one I'd like to see it.

You sound like a broken record.

The following is from Got Questions...They do a better job than me of explaining the 7 years.

Daniel 9:24–27 reveals the purpose and time of the tribulation. This passage speaks of 70 weeks that have been declared against “your people.” Daniel’s people are the Jews, the nation of Israel, and Daniel 9:24 speaks of a period of time in which God’s purpose is “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” God declares that “seventy sevens” will fulfill all these things. The “sevens” are groups of years, so 70 sevens is 490 years. (Some translations refer to 70 “weeks” of years.)

In Daniel 9:25 and 26, the Messiah will be cut off after “seven sevens and sixty-two sevens” (69 total sevens), beginning with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. In other words, 69 sevens (483 years) after the decree to rebuild is issued, the Messiah will die. Biblical historians confirm that 483 years passed from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the time when Jesus was crucified. Most Christian scholars, regardless of their view of eschatology, have the above understanding of Daniel’s 70 sevens.

God said that 70 weeks had been determined (490 years), but, with the death of the Messiah, we only have 69 weeks accounted for (483 years). This leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy” (Daniel 9:24). This final seven-year period is what we call the tribulation—the time when God finishes judging Israel and brings them back to Himself.

 

[The Light]

You sound like a broken record.

The reason being is because when the Church is raptured most people that remain will immediately think that there are 7 years remaining before the end as that is what will be passed around. This, according to scripture, is not the case. People need to know the truth, not what has been passed down by incorrect teachings.

The following is from Got Questions...They do a better job than me of explaining the 7 years.

Daniel 9:24–27 reveals the purpose and time of the tribulation.

Right off the bat. This is an incorrect statement. Nothing in those verses refers to the tribulation.

Can you show me in these verses where the purpose and time of the tribulation is given?

Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This passage speaks of 70 weeks that have been declared against “your people.” Daniel’s people are the Jews, the nation of Israel, and Daniel 9:24 speaks of a period of time in which God’s purpose is “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” God declares that “seventy sevens” will fulfill all these things. The “sevens” are groups of years, so 70 sevens is 490 years. (Some translations refer to 70 “weeks” of years.)

This is correct.

In Daniel 9:25 and 26, the Messiah will be cut off after “seven sevens and sixty-two sevens” (69 total sevens), beginning with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem.

This is correct. He will be cut off AFTER 69 Weeks.

In other words, 69 sevens (483 years) after the decree to rebuild is issued, the Messiah will die. Biblical historians confirm that 483 years passed from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the time when Jesus was crucified. Most Christian scholars, regardless of their view of eschatology, have the above understanding of Daniel’s 70 sevens. God said that 70 weeks had been determined (490 years), but, with the death of the Messiah, we only have 69 weeks accounted for (483 years). This leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy” (Daniel 9:24). This final seven-year period is what we call the tribulation—the time when God finishes judging Israel and brings them back to Himself.

This quote from above is false and incorrect.

" In other words, 69 sevens (483 years) after the decree to rebuild is issued, the Messiah will die."

This is NOT what the Word of God says. Below we can see that from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem unto Messiah the prince is a total of 69 weeks of seven. It does not say that Jesus dies at that time. This is the time of His arrival, not His death.

Daniel 9
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

As is seen below, after 69 weeks Messiah is cut off. How long after 69 weeks is Messiah cut off? He is cut off three and a half years later as He ministers for this length of time.
Daniel 9
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

There only remains three and half years in the 70th week of Daniel. This we can confirm with scripture.

Daniel 12
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Conclusion: The scripture never says anything about a 7 year tribulation. What it does say is that there is a final year that will begin when a covenant with many is confirmed. The scripture also tells that there are 3.5 years remaining in the 70th week of Daniel. When the abomination of desolation is set up in the middle of the week, those final 3.5 years for the people of Daniel will begin.

From this we can properly conclude that the Church will be raptured BEFORE the great tribulation.........not before the final 7 year period. Blindness will be removed from part of Israel when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

So when the rapture of the Church occurs, most will think there are 7 years remaining. This would be a wrong conclusion.

 

[CrowCross]

The reason being is because when the Church is raptured most people that remain will immediately think that there are 7 years remaining before the end as that is what will be passed around. This, according to scripture, is not the case. People need to know the truth, not what has been passed down by incorrect teachings.

Some will, sure...but the bible doesn't tell how much time elapses between the pre-trib rapture and when the ratification of the peace accord is made.

Right off the bat. This is an incorrect statement. Nothing in those verses refers to the tribulation.

What???? Are you serious? The verses start off with talking about 70 weeks....then mention when it will be cut off leaving a final 7 weeks.

Can you show me in these verses where the purpose and time of the tribulation is given?

Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


This is correct.


This is correct. He will be cut off AFTER 69 Weeks.

Leaving 7 years for a later date. This is the time of Jacobs trouble.

This quote from above is false and incorrect.

" In other words, 69 sevens (483 years) after the decree to rebuild is issued, the Messiah will die."

This is NOT what the Word of God says. Below we can see that from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem unto Messiah the prince is a total of 69 weeks of seven. It does not say that Jesus dies at that time. This is the time of His arrival, not His death.

????? CUT OFF....was Jesus cut off at his baptism....during the temptation in the wilderness? I say no....you seem to indicate you would say YES. Now, if I got it wrong...give me the definition of CUT OFF. Was Jesus riding down a road on a donkey and the donkey that just passed Jesus didn't use their turn signal and "cut off" Jesus when they pulled in front of His donkey?

Daniel 9
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

As is seen below, after 69 weeks Messiah is cut off. How long after 69 weeks is Messiah cut off? He is cut off three and a half years later as He ministers for this length of time.
Daniel 9
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

There only remains three and half years in the 70th week of Daniel. This we can confirm with scripture.

The Fulfillment of the 70 Weeks .....from Got questions....once again they do a better job of explaining.
Gabriel said the prophetic clock would start at the time that a decree was issued to rebuild Jerusalem. From the date of that decree to the time of the Messiah would be 483 years. We know from history that the command to “restore and rebuild Jerusalem” was given by King Artaxerxes of Persia c. 444 B.C. (see Nehemiah 2:1-8).

The first unit of 49 years (seven “sevens”) covers the time that it took to rebuild Jerusalem, “with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble” (Daniel 9:25). This rebuilding is chronicled in the book of Nehemiah.

Converting the 360-day year used by the ancient Jews, 483 years becomes 476 years on our solar calendar. Adjusting for the switch from B.C. to A.D., 476 years after 444 B.C. places us at A.D. 33, which would coincide with Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem (Matthew 21:1–9). The prophecy in Daniel 9 specifies that, after the completion of the 483 years, “the Anointed One will be cut off” (verse 26). This was fulfilled when Jesus was crucified.

Daniel 9:26 continues with a prediction that, after the Messiah is killed, “the people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.” This was fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. The “ruler who will come” is a reference to the Antichrist, who, it seems, will have some connection with Rome, since it was the Romans who destroyed Jerusalem.

Daniel 12
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

The last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation.....this time is also know as the great tribulation portion of the 7 year tribulation.

Conclusion: The scripture never says anything about a 7 year tribulation.

As presented to you...the 7 years begins when the peace treaty is ratified by the anti-christ which is after the rapture.

What it does say is that there is a final year that will begin when a covenant with many is confirmed. The scripture also tells that there are 3.5 years remaining in the 70th week of Daniel. When the abomination of desolation is set up in the middle of the week, those final 3.5 years for the people of Daniel will begin.

Yes, 3 1/2 years under the false peace treaty...then the treaty is broke and the final 3 1/2 years of the 7 year tribulation begins. This portion of the 7 year tribulation is called the great tribulation.

From this we can properly conclude that the Church will be raptured BEFORE the great tribulation.........not before the final 7 year period. Blindness will be removed from part of Israel when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

I disagree. The restrainer is removed in the rapture prior to the antichrist coming on the scene.
2 Thes 2:7-8

So when the rapture of the Church occurs, most will think there are 7 years remaining. This would be a wrong conclusion.

Yes, it could be slightly longer than 7 years. The bible doesn't say how long after the peace treaty is ratified by the antichrist.

 

[The Light]

Some will, sure...but the bible doesn't tell how much time elapses between the pre-trib rapture and when the ratification of the peace accord is made.

It tells us that the time between the pre great tribulation rapture is less than 7 years.

What???? Are you serious? The verses start off with talking about 70 weeks....then mention when it will be cut off leaving a final 7 weeks.

Are you not grasping that the Word says UNTO MESSIAH THE PRINCE. That means Jesus arrives as Messiah AT 69 weeks. He is cut off AFTER that. That is 3.5 year later.

There only remains 3.5 years in the 70th week of Daniel.

Leaving 7 years for a later date. This is the time of Jacobs trouble.

No leaving 3.5 years after Messiah is cut off. Do you not see that Jesus ministered for 3.5 years after He arrived as Messiah.

????? CUT OFF....was Jesus cut off at his baptism....during the temptation in the wilderness? I say no....you seem to indicate you would say YES. Now, if I got it wrong...give me the definition of CUT OFF. Was Jesus riding down a road on a donkey and the donkey that just passed Jesus didn't use their turn signal and "cut off" Jesus when they pulled in front of His donkey?

What are you talking about. Jesus arrives AT 69 weeks from the decree to restore Jerusalem. Three and a half years later He is crucified.

That only leaves 3.5 and half weeks in the 70th week of Daniel.

The Fulfillment of the 70 Weeks .....from Got questions....once again they do a better job of explaining.
Gabriel said the prophetic clock would start at the time that a decree was issued to rebuild Jerusalem. From the date of that decree to the time of the Messiah would be 483 years. We know from history that the command to “restore and rebuild Jerusalem” was given by King Artaxerxes of Persia c. 444 B.C. (see Nehemiah 2:1-8).

The first unit of 49 years (seven “sevens”) covers the time that it took to rebuild Jerusalem, “with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble” (Daniel 9:25). This rebuilding is chronicled in the book of Nehemiah.

Converting the 360-day year used by the ancient Jews, 483 years becomes 476 years on our solar calendar. Adjusting for the switch from B.C. to A.D., 476 years after 444 B.C. places us at A.D. 33,

Wrong calculation. Jesus died in 30 AD.

After the death of Jesus in 30 AD the following things occurred

Temple Doors Opening Themselves After Jesus’ Death​

According to the Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmuds, starting around 30 CE — the year most scholars date to Jesus’ crucifixion — the massive gates of the Temple began to open by themselves every night, a sign interpreted by rabbis as an omen of the Temple’s impending destruction.

The Babylonian Talmud adds that this was part of a series of four “miracles” or “signs” beginning in 30 CE:

1. The lot for the Lord’s goat always came up in the left hand.
2. The crimson thread tied to the Temple door never turned white.
3. The westernmost light of the menorah went out.
4. The Temple doors opened by themselves

which would coincide with Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem (Matthew 21:1–9). The prophecy in Daniel 9 specifies that, after the completion of the 483 years, “the Anointed One will be cut off” (verse 26). This was fulfilled when Jesus was crucified.

Jesus died in 30 AD so this would be incorrect.

I know this because I also believed the 33 AD story that requires converting to prophetic years until I did some deep research and found that Jesus died in 30 AD.

Daniel 9:26 continues with a prediction that, after the Messiah is killed, “the people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.” This was fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. The “ruler who will come” is a reference to the Antichrist, who, it seems, will have some connection with Rome, since it was the Romans who destroyed Jerusalem.

This is also incorrect. The Temple that the people of the Antichrist destroy will be the Third Temple that is about to be built. The Antichrist will not be Roman.

The last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation.....this time is also know as the great tribulation portion of the 7 year tribulation.

There is no 7 year tribulation. There is a final 7 years that begins when a 7 year covenant with many is SIGNED. That starts the clock. In the midst of this final week the abomination of desolation will be set up. This begins the final 3.5 years of the 70th week of Daniel. This is when those in the nation of Israel are told to flee when the AOD is set up in the Temple.

There are only 3.5 years remaining in the 70th week of Daniel, which is about the people of Daniel.

As presented to you...the 7 years begins when the peace treaty is ratified by the anti-christ which is after the rapture.

Negative. The 7 years does not begin when a peace treaty is ratified by the Antichrist. The 7 years begins when a covenant with many is made. That's what this thread is about. There is a 7-year covenant that was signed in Sept of 2023. The final 7 years may have already begun.

We will not know if this is the covenant spoken of in Daniel 9 until it is confirmed by the Antichrist. However, this will most likely happen after the rapture of the Church.

What we do know for a fact is that the Church will be raptured in the summer. If we do the math and if this is the correct 7 year covenant, the abomination of desolation will have to be set up in the spring of 2027. That means the Church would have to be raptured before the end of this current summer.

It would be wise to watch and be ready as instructed.

Yes, 3 1/2 years under the false peace treaty...then the treaty is broke and the final 3 1/2 years of the 7 year tribulation begins. This portion of the 7 year tribulation is called the great tribulation.

There is not one single scripture that says that there is a 7-year tribulation. There is only a great tribulation

I disagree. The restrainer is removed in the rapture prior to the antichrist coming on the scene.
2 Thes 2:7-8

Right. These are the verses I quoted.

You quoted this verse.

2 Thes 2
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

You were using this FALLING AWAY as evidence for a pretrib rapture.

I told you that is not the evidence of a pretrib rapture. The evidence of a pre Great Tribulation rapture is 2 Thes 2:7-8 which you are quoting above, which shows the restrainer removed.

Yes, it could be slightly longer than 7 years. The bible doesn't say how long after the peace treaty is ratified by the antichrist.

The Church will not be raptured before the 7 years begin. The 7 year covenant with many can be made years before the Antichrist confirms it.

 

[CrowCross]

It tells us that the time between the pre great tribulation rapture is less than 7 years.

I think you meant beginning of the tribulation and the great tribulation.

We don't know the time between the rapture and the beginning of the tribulation.

 

[The Light]

I think you meant beginning of the tribulation and the great tribulation.

We don't know the time between the rapture and the beginning of the tribulation.

I'm attempting to say that the rapture of the Church will not happen before the 7 year begins.

The rapture of the Church will happen after the 7 year begin, but before the great tribulation.

 

[CrowCross]

I'm attempting to say that the rapture of the Church will not happen before the 7 year begins.

The rapture of the Church will happen after the 7 year begin, but before the great tribulation.

That would put you as a quasi-midtribber.

For me the removal of the restrainer in 2 Thes 2:7ish is the removal of the church at the rapture...when they go the prayer protection...Eph 6 spiritual warfare goes up in the rapture which allows the antichrist to move freely.
All though, there are these two pesky guys who do show up.

 

[The Light]

That would put you as a quasi-midtribber.

For me the removal of the restrainer in 2 Thes 2:7ish is the removal of the church at the rapture...when they go the prayer protection...Eph 6 spiritual warfare goes up in the rapture which allows the antichrist to move freely.
All though, there are these two pesky guys who do show up.

Actually, I am a pretribber...........rapture before the great tribulation for the Church.

And a prewrather.........rapture for the 12 tribes at the sixth seal, before the wrath of God.

The are two raptures as the fig tree has two harvests, Jacob had two brides.

 

[ewq1938]

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. So there has to be a third coming when He comes with the armies of heaven on white horses.

The bible only speaks of two comings so this third one is unscriptural.

Right, the rapture which occurs at the 6th seal.

Nope. It happens once the 7th trump sounds. BTW the 6th seal describes events that happen after the rapture took place so even if the 6th seal happens when you think it does, it still wouldn't be at the rapture since the rapture would occur before anyone saw or knew Christ had returned for wrath.

Don't forget the rapture of the Church which occurs in an hour that you think not.

You don't think the rapture is post trib but you say it happens when you think not so I guess the rapture is post trib afterall. :)

 

[ewq1938]

This final seven-year period is what we call the tribulation—the time when God finishes judging Israel and brings them back to Himself.

Mar 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Was 7 years but then it was shortened so musty be less than 7 years long now. Rev 13 says 42 months so half the length now.

 

[ewq1938]

Actually, I am a pretribber...........rapture before the great tribulation for the Church.

And a prewrather.........rapture for the 12 tribes at the sixth seal, before the wrath of God.

The are two raptures as the fig tree has two harvests, Jacob had two brides.

There's a resurrection of the saved dead and a rapture of the living/remaining saints. There isn't another rapture after that one. The rapture/Harpazo is full and complete. There won't be another because no one will be left to rapture. It's like saying Noah had two arks.

 

[CrowCross]

Was 7 years but then it was shortened so musty be less than 7 years long now.

You're speculating on what "shortened" means.