After your born again do you think you will never sin again?

[amigo de christo]

Yes and the rest. Though the first time I read it I pondered on it. Its strange that some people can believe such words and others don't. See it as unreal. Like Nicodemus they question how can "a Word or the Word" be a thing. Being abstract and subjective.

But I think I have more substance in belief now for that verse that I did when I first read it. I believed the same but now the verse has more meaning to me.

Yes that is what I meant above.

Yes its like a radar. This is the fruits of the spirit I think. When you say "twist it to fit what mens doctrines" do you mean non believers or the wolves in the church. Because I think the wolves can have some pretty deceptive and decieving ways of twisting Gods word.

I think as you say its "the evidence of things unseen". Something we sense or maybe experience as part of Gods knowledge being revealed. Of heavenly things. Christ says we do not exactly know but we can know like the changing of the seasons. The winds of change.

Though humans do have a history of believing unreal ideas and timelines. There needs to be decernment.

Yes thankyou.

When i say twist it to fit what mens doctrines .........
Let me answer that by asking and then answering the question .
Now
We all know the ungodly in the world will try and twist things JESUS said to try and make christanity
seem as it is a fable . So we all know that is true .
SO now for the question and the answer will f ollow .
However what is the most dangerous wolf of all the wolves .
Is it the wolf that comes raging against the door of where the sheep dwell ,
OR
Is it the one that cometh in dressed IN WOOL
in order to convince the sheep its time to OPEN THAT DOOR .
The most deadly and deceptive wolf is
not the wolf that can merely rage war against the sheep and kill a sheep .
ITS the one that decieves them . For the wolf , IF it be allowed of GOD , to kill the sheep , its only the body that dies .
But unto all who buy the deceptoin of the wolf and wolves from within , THAT DOCTRINE will
DESTROY the soul at the end . FOR STRONG is the LORD GOD who shall judge
the Harlot , the wicked and non repentant , all who made and love a lie
all unbelievers will indeed have their part in the lake of fire . an end i assure us that NONE
would ever have wanted .

 

[Marvelloustime]

When i say twist it to fit what mens doctrines .........
Let me answer that by asking and then answering the question .
Now
We all know the ungodly in the world will try and twist things JESUS said to try and make christanity
seem as it is a fable . So we all know that is true .
SO now for the question and the answer will f ollow .
However what is the most dangerous wolf of all the wolves .
Is it the wolf that comes raging against the door of where the sheep dwell ,
OR
Is it the one that cometh in dressed IN WOOL
in order to convince the sheep its time to OPEN THAT DOOR .
The most deadly and deceptive wolf is
not the wolf that can merely rage war against the sheep and kill a sheep .
ITS the one that decieves them . For the wolf , IF it be allowed of GOD , to kill the sheep , its only the body that dies .
But unto all who buy the deceptoin of the wolf and wolves from within , THAT DOCTRINE will
DESTROY the soul at the end . FOR STRONG is the LORD GOD who shall judge
the Harlot , the wicked and non repentant , all who made and love a lie
all unbelievers will indeed have their part in the lake of fire . an end i assure us that NONE
would ever have wanted .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes and the rest. Though the first time I read it I pondered on it. Its strange that some people can believe such words and others don't. See it as unreal. Like Nicodemus they question how can "a Word or the Word" be a thing. Being abstract and subjective.

But I think I have more substance in belief now for that verse that I did when I first read it. I believed the same but now the verse has more meaning to me.

Yes that is what I meant above.

Yes its like a radar. This is the fruits of the spirit I think. When you say "twist it to fit what mens doctrines" do you mean non believers or the wolves in the church. Because I think the wolves can have some pretty deceptive and decieving ways of twisting Gods word.

I think as you say its "the evidence of things unseen". Something we sense or maybe experience as part of Gods knowledge being revealed. Of heavenly things. Christ says we do not exactly know but we can know like the changing of the seasons. The winds of change.

Though humans do have a history of believing unreal ideas and timelines. There needs to be decernment.

Yes thankyou.

For if any cometh and preaches another jesus ............
WE WOULD DO WELL to take heed to that my friend and my friends .
Cause by means of a ecuemincal inclusive harlot and her cup of fornication which she calls love
Has taken a massive number within christendom right to a harlots love and now
even unto the peace of interfaith , WHICH BE OF ANTI CHRIST .
Were we not warned a massive and great falling away would occur .
WERE we not warned that many would follow those perniscious ways by reason
of whom , THE BIBICAL GOD , BIBLICAL CHRIST , HIS WORD , TRUTH , would be evil spoken against .
That indeed the TIME would come when many WOULD no longer endure sound doctrine .
That indeed because the love , FOR GOD TRUTH , would wax cold DUE TO INQUITY would ab ound .
And now i see rainbows
and now i see even korans and b udda statues getting kissed for world peace
You ever get the feeling THIS BE A STRONG DELUSION .
A delusion sent unto all who rejected the love of the TRUTH
The false religoins even now merging with christendom , well with the dECIEVED within christendom .
Something GOT SENT . and IT was sENT unto a very rebellios generation
One that had ZERO d esire to even hear or be reminded of TRUTH .
What many now call love and see as lov ing , HAS ONLY LED THEM
into a very deep and deeper HATRED for .........................................THE TRUTH .
For every time a man even comes into such places using the very Words of GOD
They rise as one and say HEY HATER , HEY JUDGER , Leave your hate speech at the door
or GET OUT , cause GOD is love . OH I KNOW GOD IS LOVE mr stevens on the bay
BUT WHAT THEY DONT KNOW IS
HIS LOVE WOULD NEVER have omitted THE TRUTH in favor of sins and lies . sOMEONE LIED TO THEM my friend .

 

[Marvelloustime]

For if any cometh and preaches another jesus ............
WE WOULD DO WELL to take heed to that my friend and my friends .
Cause by means of a ecuemincal inclusive harlot and her cup of fornication which she calls love
Has taken a massive number within christendom right to a harlots love and now
even unto the peace of interfaith , WHICH BE OF ANTI CHRIST .
Were we not warned a massive and great falling away would occur .
WERE we not warned that many would follow those perniscious ways by reason
of whom , THE BIBICAL GOD , BIBLICAL CHRIST , HIS WORD , TRUTH , would be evil spoken against .
That indeed the TIME would come when many WOULD no longer endure sound doctrine .
That indeed because the love , FOR GOD TRUTH , would wax cold DUE TO INQUITY would ab ound .
And now i see rainbows
and now i see even korans and b udda statues getting kissed for world peace
You ever get the feeling THIS BE A STRONG DELUSION .
A delusion sent unto all who rejected the love of the TRUTH
The false religoins even now merging with christendom , well with the dECIEVED within christendom .
Something GOT SENT . and IT was sENT unto a very rebellios generation
One that had ZERO d esire to even hear or be reminded of TRUTH .
What many now call love and see as lov ing , HAS ONLY LED THEM
into a very deep and deeper HATRED for .........................................THE TRUTH .
For every time a man even comes into such places using the very Words of GOD
They rise as one and say HEY HATER , HEY JUDGER , Leave your hate speech at the door
or GET OUT , cause GOD is love . OH I KNOW GOD IS LOVE mr stevens on the bay
BUT WHAT THEY DONT KNOW IS
HIS LOVE WOULD NEVER have omitted THE TRUTH in favor of sins and lies . sOMEONE LIED TO THEM my friend .

@amigo de christo

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@Behold isn’t going to like that assessment.

I wouldn't know. Last time we conversed he was unteachable so I don't doubt what you are saying. I've got him on ignore for a year until next June. Then I'll see if he has learned anything from God, or is still stuck in his own present interpretation, because he's too proud to seek the truth, especially found by someone else, and a WOMAN!

I remember sending my latest book at the time to my old spiritual father in California for a "forward" and when his associate who read it for him sent it back with highlighted areas that I had learned from the Spirit and he caught them as obviously being new and not taught anywhere from what my old pastor had taught, the associate said, that a forward couldn't be done by my pastor as he was "already on record" in his own books to now acknowledge mine. I see why God hates pride that keeps us stagnant. Pride in truth is not the pride God hates. Paul says he boasts, but only in the Lord. I'm like that when the Spirit shows me or someone else an interpretation that I hadn't seen before, and I see the Spirit of Truth agrees, and that new knowledge that I love to get keeps me on a "high" for about a month, and I just must tell everybody. But on the forums I get the old "she's full of pride" nonsense who are clueless to the difference. They couldn't see the old truth that had been hidden from their eyes at all. Blind bats.

 

[Wrangler]

he's too proud to seek the truth, especially found by someone else, and a WOMAN!

He's not too fond of me, not because of my sex but because I, like you, reject OSAS without apology.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

He's not too fond of me, not because of my sex but because I, like you, reject OSAS without apology.

I don't recall he was in favor of grace being a license to sin, which is one thing that OSAS means. But I must confess, I didn't read everything he posts, as he obviously hates me as seen by his tendency to revile me. So I won't be breaking bread with him for the time being.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

He's not too fond of me, not because of my sex but because I, like you, reject OSAS without apology.

By the way, where do you stand on my post #234

 

[CrowCross]

I've got news for you, only unintentional sins you aren't aware of even are being cleansed according to 1 John 1:7 AS LONG AS you are abiding IN JESUS. There is a doctrine of demons running rampart for about 500 years that wants you to willfully sin believing they are not separating you from God so that you will die in your sins. Don't be tricked by the devil. Read 2 Peter 1 and know that it is only your past sins that you willfully committed that are cleansed at the time you are born again of the Spirit. Once you have the Spirit and are walking in the Light, He takes away all desire to willfully commit a sin that your conscience is screaming DON'T DO THAT and then you won't. That is "keeping" yourself according to 1 John 5:18. Also 1 John 3:3.

I pray that none of my fellow forum Christians are unteachable and if anyone you know who claims to be a Christian but you know are willfully sinning, they MUST be born again. I went to church for 30 years UNSAVED. But when I finally experienced the born again experience of being cleansed and filled with the Spirit, I literally could feel a heaviness lift out of my body and I went from committing adultery with no desire to stop, to hating what He hated, and loving what God loved.

To be honest with you...you theology says no one is saved...unless they confess ALL of your known sins and then die the next moment.

But, I'll give you a chance to explain...Just what is abiding in JESUS?

 

[CrowCross]

I don't recall he was in favor of grace being a license to sin, which is one thing that OSAS means.

Is it? How?
You make OSAS sound like...Bond, James Bond.

 

[Wrangler]

By the way, where do you stand on my post #234

I've got news for you, only unintentional sins you aren't aware of even are being cleansed according to 1 John 1:7 AS LONG AS you are abiding IN JESUS. There is a doctrine of demons running rampart for about 500 years that wants you to willfully sin believing they are not separating you from God so that you will die in your sins. Don't be tricked by the devil. Read 2 Peter 1 and know that it is only your past sins that you willfully committed that are cleansed at the time you are born again of the Spirit. Once you have the Spirit and are walking in the Light, He takes away all desire to willfully commit a sin that your conscience is screaming DON'T DO THAT and then you won't. That is "keeping" yourself according to 1 John 5:18. Also 1 John 3:3.

I pray that none of my fellow forum Christians are unteachable and if anyone you know who claims to be a Christian but you know are willfully sinning, they MUST be born again. I went to church for 30 years UNSAVED. But when I finally experienced the born again experience of being cleansed and filled with the Spirit, I literally could feel a heaviness lift out of my body and I went from committing adultery with no desire to stop, to hating what He hated, and loving what God loved.

Great testimony of heaviness leaving your body, etc.

I think the OSAS denies our capacity to keep sinning IF we so choose. My experience is it is not intellectual but emotionally tempting in the heat of the moment. The dichotomy of intentional v unintentional sin probably deserves its own thread.

Your post is spot on about the need for us to confess our intentional sins and ask for forgiveness EVEN AFTER or especially after coming to Christ. In my experience, I have confessed more precisely because my awareness of my sin has grown as I walk with Christ. The whole salvation v sanctification thing ... I'm reminded of the quip my Mark Twain; that he thought his father was so stupid when he was 15 yo and was amazed at how much his father learned by the time he turned 18 yo.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

To be honest with you...you theology says no one is saved...unless they confess ALL of your known sins and then die the next moment.

But, I'll give you a chance to explain...Just what is abiding in JESUS

Great question. I don't know what it would be for you, but I'm in the Spirit all day long as my mind is constantly on Him, and scriptures scroll past me that I try to memorize, and opportunities to witness are given to me. But this is because in 2000 I was living in Arizona and I was driving through the desert on my way to a conference at my old church and God spoke to me and said, "I am giving you the office of Teacher." I was overwhelmed. For the past few years, I teach pastors.

I can also relate to the scripture that Christ learned obedience through suffering. That still seems odd to me about Jesus, but I imagine it was the human side of him, and probably His Gethsemane experience. But that verse was true for me as my husband became very abusive. I came to a point that I would not seek a divorce because I knew God hated divorce, so I told God that even if my husband ended up killing me I would not sin and initiate a divorce. The next year I went to the same conference and while there one of the many speakers called me on stage and spoke a prophecy over me. Because it was recorded, I bought the tape and played it all the way home. I couldn't figure out how any of it could come true, especially the opening, "I release you," but the minute I got home my husband said he was moving out and wanted a divorce. Unbeknownst to me, he and the wife of his best friend had been having an affair for the last 6 months. As it turned out, we lived together for the next three months as I looked on the internet for a cheap house somewhere that was close to one of my past friends. That experience was full of miracles I wish we could talk together about. I was amazed that God was so present with me and miraculously leading my steps. I ended up moving to Tennessee where I had lived for a few years earlier in my life, and because my husband divorced me "without cause," according to Matthew 19 and 1 Corinthians 7 verse 39 I think... I was still attached to my husband even when he and his mistress got married. So he is still the last man I kissed. LOL (Just found out that he died 4 years ago.)

Please explain what about my theology leaves you feeling that I believe I'm not saved. I KNOW I AM! I just stay close to Him, and there's no place I'd rather be. It just keeps growing closer and closer every year. I'm now 79. Abide means "to live with." For me, it is like Jesus is my Husband. Isa. 54:5. I'm truly in love with Jesus.

 

[CrowCross]

Great question. I don't know what it would be for you, but I'm in the Spirit all day long as my mind is constantly on Him, and scriptures scroll past me that I try to memorize, and opportunities to witness are given to me. But this is because in 2000 I was living in Arizona and I was driving through the desert on my way to a conference at my old church and God spoke to me and said, "I am giving you the office of Teacher." I was overwhelmed. For the past few years, I teach pastors.

I can also relate to the scripture that Christ learned obedience through suffering. That still seems odd to me about Jesus, but I imagine it was the human side of him, and probably His Gethsemane experience. But that verse was true for me as my husband became very abusive. I came to a point that I would not seek a divorce because I knew God hated divorce, so I told God that even if my husband ended up killing me I would not sin and initiate a divorce. The next year I went to the same conference and while there one of the many speakers called me on stage and spoke a prophecy over me. Because it was recorded, I bought the tape and played it all the way home. I couldn't figure out how any of it could come true, especially the opening, "I release you," but the minute I got home my husband said he was moving out and wanted a divorce. Unbeknownst to me, he and the wife of his best friend had been having an affair for the last 6 months. As it turned out, we lived together for the next three months as I looked on the internet for a cheap house somewhere that was close to one of my past friends. That experience was full of miracles I wish we could talk together about. I was amazed that God was so present with me and miraculously leading my steps. I ended up moving to Tennessee where I had lived for a few years earlier in my life, and because my husband divorced me "without cause," according to Matthew 19 and 1 Corinthians 7 verse 39 I think... I was still attached to my husband even when he and his mistress got married. So he is still the last man I kissed. LOL (Just found out that he died 4 years ago.)

Please explain what about my theology leaves you feeling that I believe I'm not saved. I KNOW I AM! I just stay close to Him, and there's no place I'd rather be. It just keeps growing closer and closer every year. I'm now 79. Abide means "to live with." For me, it is like Jesus is my Husband. Isa. 54:5. I'm truly in love with Jesus.

"Please explain what about my theology leaves you feeling that I believe I'm not saved. ".....you're not saved because you believe you can lose your salvation. I say if you can lose your salvation you already have.
Why? I don't know your exact belief but many from your belief...or subset of your belief that you can lose your salvation base remaining in salvation on works performed.
I would imaging if you divorced your husband because you "knew God hated divorce" that sin would send you to hell. I could be wrong on what you believe.

Others from your side of the fence believe you must continue to ask for forgiveness of sin..or that sin won't be forgiven and if you die in that sin...guess where you're going? Hell.

So, let's clarify....how does a person lose their salvation? How did you explain to the pastors you taught they could lose their salvation ?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The dichotomy of intentional v unintentional sin probably deserves its own thread.

I've been on forums where I've had to challenge someone who refused to read the Old Testament. We can still learn how God views sin from the Old Testament. Unintentional sins had a sacrifice, but intentional breaking of a commandment DID NOT. They stoned them to death. For this I turn to Numbers 15:22-36.

Another thing is God views sin as two types, not the heretical "sin is sin" of today that has been taught for the last 500 years to Protestants that caused a doctrine of demons regarding Christ's sacrifice covering all sins even future, when Peter says only all past sins. 2 Peter 1:5-11. It is heresy to do with us viewing Jesus blood to cover our "past, present, and future" sins unto death, even done intentionally. God will not be mocked like this. Even the Catholics know the difference between their mortal and venial sins. We have His Spirit (if indeed we've been born again.) that the Old Testament Jews didn't have that keeps us from sinning. 1 John 3:9. Protestants add the word "practice" when it can't apply as chapter 3 is only about LAWLESSNESS vs. 4. Those are sins unto death. It's like practicing murder. WHAT? Once is too many! John 15:3 about sin is that Christians are "clean." That is of the evil desire to commit mortal sins.

The fruit of the Spirit is what venial sins are about that Jesus, now as the Finisher of our faith, not just the Author of our faith regarding mortal sins, is maturing our fruit for the long process the Protestant Church erroneously calls "sanctification." For instance. 1 John 1:7 tells us that when walking in the Spirit/Light Jesus is still cleansing us from actions from immature fruit. It is horrendous that anyone believes like Martin Luther who obviously believed in OSAS and that the blood of Jesus cleanses our present and future sins unto death when he wrote to a friend, "even if you commit murder and adultery 1,000 times a day, it would not separate you from God."

(W, for years I had heard the Church call the process of maturing we go through, "sanctification" but it always appeared to be written as "past tense" like in Hebrews 10:26-31, so I prayed and told God I didn't think "sanctification" was the right word, so what do YOU call it? He immediately filled me with goose bumps and plainly said, "glorification." AMAZING. The Church teaches that is after death! Nope, it is becoming conformed to the image of Christ who gives us glory. John 17:20-23.)

Your post is spot on about the need for us to confess our intentional sins and ask for forgiveness EVEN AFTER or especially after coming to Christ. In my experience, I have confessed more precisely because my awareness of my sin has grown as I walk with Christ. The whole salvation v sanctification thing ... I'm reminded of the quip my Mark Twain; that he thought his father was so stupid when he was 15 yo and was amazed at how much his father learned by the time he turned 18 yo.

What do you do with verses that say we are free from sin like Romans 6:5-7 and 22, I think. Romans 6 is only talking about mortal sins. And which of the two types of sin are you talking about? I imagine venial sins NOT unto death, and that would be correct. But take heart, He will even complete us in this lifetime. Philippians 1:6.

 

[CrowCross]

Another thing is God views sin as two types, not the heretical "sin is sin" of today that has been taught for the last 500 years to Protestants that caused a doctrine of demons regarding Christ's sacrifice covering all sins even future, when Peter says only all past sins. 2 Peter 1:5-11. It is heresy to do with us viewing Jesus blood to cover our "past, present, and future" sins unto death, even done intentionally.

If our future sins are not forgiven, then two things must happen:
1) When we sin in the future, we revert to an unforgiven state, meaning we lose our salvation and must be saved again, and 2) Christ must die again to cover the sins we’ve committed since His last death. Neither of these scenarios is biblical.

Before you call something a doctrine of demons....you better be sure. ref

As I have said...if you can lose your salvation...you already have.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I say if you can lose your salvation you already have.

Well, I've been abiding in Christ for so long I don't know any other way to live, and, no, I cannot lose my salvation. But that is me and my life, and the power I've received from Jesus. I cannot speak for anyone else.

I don't believe in today's slant on OSAS, because you must stay ignorant of warnings about the damage false teachers can do to you that are too clear to deny. Some teaching OSAS teach their false beliefs on salvation and send many to hell with their lax attitude and unawareness of the Spirit trying in vain to get through to their deaf ears.

What do you do with 2 Peter 2:18 "For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”"

I highlighted a verse that sends shivers down my back. Did you know that God sometimes denies repentance to someone? Maybe that is what I highlighted means. But there is another that is even worse I won't talk about until I'm sure.

you can lose your salvation base remaining in salvation on works performed.

Works performed? I don't believe that teaching. Mine is more along the lines of NOT committing willful sins unto death, as opposed to never missing church or paying exactly 10% tithe or some other physical work.

Why? I don't know your exact belief but many from your belief...or subset of your belief that you can lose your salvation base remaining in salvation on works performed.
I would imaging if you divorced your husband because you "knew God hated divorce" that sin would send you to hell. I could be wrong on what you believe.

Others from your side of the fence believe you must continue to ask for forgiveness of sin..or that sin won't be forgiven and if you die in that sin...guess where you're going? Hell.

Many from my belief? Who? I'd like to know. Don't throw me into the mix of some denomination! Please!

I believe what the Apostles taught, and haven't found a denomination from after the Apostles that teach the simple gospel that I am not the author of my faith - Jesus is. And I'm not the finisher of my faith. Jesus is. And His Spirit rules my conscience. All I have to do is must obey my conscience, His home base, and never go against it due to the sleepless nights they could cause.

My beliefs are about what Jesus taught having to do with why Jesus came. The plan for His coming started the moment Adam sinned and obeyed Satan. The major subject is about SIN and defeating Satan. He was manifested to take away our sin, and in Him is no sin.

how does a person lose their salvation? How did you explain to the pastors you taught they could lose their salvation ?

I didn't. It never came up. I'm more interested in correcting the false teachings of the past 1,900 years. Like what is the true meaning of God's grace?

I'll ask you.

Also, does your belief about sin just call "sin is sin"? If not, what?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If our future sins are not forgiven, then two things must happen:
1) When we sin in the future, we revert to an unforgiven state, meaning we lose our salvation and must be saved again, and 2) Christ must die again to cover the sins we’ve committed since His last death. Neither of these scenarios is biblical.

Before you call something a doctrine of demons....you better be sure. ref

As I have said...if you can lose your salvation...you already have.

Our major difference is you started by saying as if it is a fact, "when we sin in the future"! Speak for yourself. I'm a Christian. Don't you know that the gospel is the POWER OF GOD in us, and His righteousness is revealed in us from faith to faith? Does God sin? I don't willfully sin. Do you? Are you so sure you will in the future? Do you even know what "faith to faith" means?

And I see you are not listening. Turn up your hearing aids my friend. I already said I'm not losing my salvation. Yet you repeat yourself. Oy veh!

But I will NOT flippantly say that no one can't. That is heresy, and of the devil. He loves that you believe what you do about a twisted OSAS. There is a true one, but you aren't even aware of it. It is what I teach based on our abiding in Him. So simple and light.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Good grief, I've been on here for 3 hrs. and 20 minutes. Talk to you all later.

 

[PinSeeker]

He's not too fond of me, not because of my sex but because I, like you, reject OSAS without apology.

Then you... reject, I guess )... what Paul says in Romans 8...

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus... we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord"... ​

...and Ephesians 1...

"In (Christ) we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of (God's) grace, which He lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of His will, according to His purpose, which He set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Christ, things in heaven and things on earth in Him. In Him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him Who works all things according to the counsel of His will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of His glory. In Hm you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of His glory."​

...and in Philippians 1...

"...He Who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."​

...and what Peter says in 1 Peter 1...

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5 who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."​

... among other things... And as you know... or should, anyway, faith is the assurance of God of our salvation, according to the writer of Hebrews (11:1).

I mean, I know you don't "reject," per se, any of these Scriptural passages, but maybe you can provide some kind of alternative understanding... <smile> ...but I don't think so. <smile> It is what it is... they are what they are. There is no ambiguity. <smile> I would say that "OSAS" is sort of a silly way to characterize all this, but again, it is what it is. Again, the Holy Spirit, Whom we, having been born again by God's grace (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:3-5)), is Himself the guarantee, given to us by God, of our inheritance. It is not necessary to be... "re-saved"... To not believe this is to not believe God Himself. You know, when you believe God ~ as Abraham did; see Genesis 15:6... "he believed the Lord, and He counted it to him as righteousness" ~ we are clothed in the righteousness of Jesus Himself, just as Abraham was so long ago. So after this point, for any one of us who are in Christ, if God were then to condemn us again, He would really be condemning Christ Jesus Himself, which He of course would never do.

Grace and peace to you, Wrangler.

 

[PinSeeker]

The problem is that some... many, I guess... just cannot separate this guarantee of our inheritance from some sort of license to sin. But Paul addresses this very thing in Romans 6, saying:

"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

"What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification."​

And, what many can't seem to grasp is how God's working in us ~ in our hearts, by His Holy Spirit ~ causes us then to then, as Paul says in Philippians 2:13, will and to work for God's good pleasure. In other words, our... very free... will is to do God's will. We fail to do it perfectly, of course, and this is sin, but because we have been born again of the Spirit and have the Spirit at work in our heart, our will is to do God's will, and not that of our former father the devil. This is because we are now in Christ and of God.

Try to think of it this way; it's not hard, really... We all want to know God's will, and to, well, find and do the will of God for our lives. Well, the answer is... and this may not immediately make sense, but just think about it... <smile>... Just do it. <smile> God is working in you. <smile>

Grace and peace to all.