Fatih and Evolution

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SocraticAli

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Hey guys,
i was just wondering what people out here across different faiths view evolution. what are your toughts, do you guys believe in it? if so, do you see a conflict with your faith or not really. personally I think we are advanced monkeys. ooh ooh aah aah
 

Armour of God

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@SocraticAli

I see your new to the forum and i welcome you to it. I also see that your agnostic and I respect that, I used to be agnostic as well.

There have been several threads on this topic and it's a complicated one. It's 1am here so I'll keep it brief for now and come back later on to give more detail and make any responses.

I was raised by Christian parents and became an atheist as a teen and early 20s. As i was studying engineering I fully believed in all of science and the "theory of evolution".

But then I learnt that this field of science is theoretical and not based on the same standard of evidence as practical science is. The theory of evolution, (in particular, new species evolving from random mutation and that all life came from one single common ancestor) is based on many assumptions and not hard based scientific evidence. I can get into more details and examples later on if you like.

So I became agnostic and started to listen to the case for intelligent design and found it to be far more probable than the theory of evolution and so I moved onto being a theist.

Anyway, i better get some sleep, gotta work later on. Please explain why you think humans are advanced monkeys and your thoughts on the theory of evolution, species evolving from materialistic processes and the universal common ancestor? what's the evidence for it? is it truly observable? do any lab experiments support it?
 
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ScottA

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Hey guys,
i was just wondering what people out here across different faiths view evolution. what are your toughts, do you guys believe in it? if so, do you see a conflict with your faith or not really. personally I think we are advanced monkeys. ooh ooh aah aah
When one fully understands Time there is no evolution.
 

SocraticAli

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@SocraticAli

I see your new to the forum and i welcome you to it. I also see that your agnostic and I respect that, I used to be agnostic as well.

There have been several threads on this topic and it's a complicated one. It's 1am here so I'll keep it brief for now and come back later on to give more detail and make any responses.

I was raised by Christian parents and became an atheist as a teen and early 20s. As i was studying engineering I fully believed in all of science and the "theory of evolution".

But then I learnt that this field of science is theoretical and not based on the same standard of evidence as practical science is. The theory of evolution, (in particular, new species evolving from random mutation and that all life came from one single common ancestor) is based on many assumptions and not hard based scientific evidence. I can get into more details and examples later on if you like.

So I became agnostic and started to listen to the case for intelligent design and found it to be far more probable than the theory of evolution and so I moved onto being a theist.

Anyway, i better get some sleep, gotta work later on. Please explain why you think humans are advanced monkeys and your thoughts on the theory of evolution, species evolving from materialistic processes and the universal common ancestor? what's the evidence for it? is it truly observable? do any lab experiments support it?
Thank you,
Well, a theory in science term is different than in the colloquial sense, which is closer to a hypothesis. I pretty much accepted it as the science community has. A theory in science is supported by evidence. Some of the evidence they cite is fossil records and DNA. I also find the resemblance between humans and chimps striking; it makes sense, although I admit I could learn more. I think they observe some organisms mutating or evolving in the lab and I think that might be the extent of it, but I'm not sure. What are some of the assumptions that you think the theory has?
 

Matthias

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Hey guys,
i was just wondering what people out here across different faiths view evolution. what are your toughts, do you guys believe in it? if so, do you see a conflict with your faith or not really. personally I think we are advanced monkeys. ooh ooh aah aah

I’m a creationist. I believe God created monkey. I believe God created man. I don’t believe God created monkey that evolved to man.

Evolution conflicts with my faith in the creator.
 
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Armour of God

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A theory in science is supported by evidence. Some of the evidence they cite is fossil records

The fossil record is a good place to start.
Scientists have always been desperate to find "the missing link", a fossil of a transitional species between ape and human.

In the first half of the 20th century they had piltdown man. Most of the theory rested on piltdown man, supposedly discovered in 1913.
40 years later it was discovered that it was a hoax, a humans skull had been attached to an apes jaw. People were so eager to push forward their theory that they resorted to fraud.

These days we have Lucy. Their best fossil evidence for humans coming from apes. A clay sculpture created from about 40% of a skeleton.
These bones were found scattered along a hillside, so its an assumption that there from one being, they could easily be from several beings.
There were no foot bones found so it's an assumption that her feet are like humans and not like apes with a thumb.
Only small fragments of her skull was found so it's an assumption that her skull resembles a humans.
Her hip bone was modified to make it fit like a humans.
The clay sculpture has other human like features such as whites in her eyes as opposed to black eyes like an apes, yet another assumption.
If we assume that these fossils are from from one being then it is only a further assumption yo say its from a transitional species. It is most likely just from another ape.

Other supposed transitional fossils have been put forward, but again, their only assumptions.
For example, they think that birds came from repltiles. Archaeopteryx fossil is thought to be a link between them. But it could just easily be an extinct species. It's very speculative to say that it's a transitional species between reptiles and birds.

They only just look at a fossil and then make the assumption that it's some kind of transitional species when it's probably just another extinct species.

They do the same with plants. In the early 20th century someone looked at two flowers and concluded that one evolved from the other because of their similarity. They didn't know about DNA back then. Several decades later they find that one flower had twice as many chromosomes as the other making that claim highly unlikely.

You should look up all this stuff that ive mentioned

You said "i also find the resemblance between humans and chimps striking; it makes sense"
That's an assumption. Many birds look alike but it's only speculation to say that one species came from another.
We see that a horse can mate with a donkey and produce a mule, seemingly a new species, but mules are infertile and cannot maintain its species.

Humans have been breeding animals for a long time, cows, chickens and so on but never has a new species been seen coming from another.

Dogs have hundreds of mutations, we call them breeds, but a dog is still a dog, they can all still breed with eachother no matter how big or small they are despite smaller dogs choosing to breed with other smaller dogs.

Its the same with DNA. Sure they find many similarities between human and ape DNA. Thats expected considering we have many common features. But there are also key differences so it is very speculative to then assert that human came from apes because of any DNA similarities.

So the resemblance of things is not very good evidence of a species evolving from another.

The thing about theoretical science is this. They come up with an idea, a hypothesis, a theory. Then they look for evidence to support that theory. The problem is that they ignore any evidence that opposes the theory and they operate on speculation too much. And seeing that there are many atheists eager to disprove God in these fields, many of them are willing to engage in fraud or extrapolate assumptions.

This post is getting quite long and it's almost midnight here so I'll talk about, cells, single common ancestor, laboratory findings and other things next time.

But I encourage you to look into it further. Look at what people supporting intelligent design have to say and look at some debates that people from both sides have had over the years. One of my favourite believers in intelligent design is a scientist by the name of Stephen Meyer, he has many compelling arguments against the theory of evolution and has written books on it, there are plenty of youtube videos of him talking about this.
 
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Mancunian

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Humans did not evolve from monkeys, humans are most closely related to great apes... Gorillas Chimpanzees and the like.

We share a common ancestor from millions of years ago, rather than one evolving from the other it's more of a branch where each species evolved separately along side each other over millions of years.

Scientists can trace the lineage of these groups using DNA.
 

JimKnox

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Humans did not evolve from monkeys, humans are most closely related to great apes... Gorillas Chimpanzees and the like.

We share a common ancestor from millions of years ago, rather than one evolving from the other it's more of a branch where each species evolved separately along side each other over millions of years.

Scientists can trace the lineage of these groups using DNA.
No. Humans and apes do not share a common ancestors. They share a common Designer.
Next. Alleged relation does not equal descent.
Next. The solar system refutes the "millions of years" hypothesis. Had creation actually evolved over millions of years, our sun would have been so big that the 1st three planets in our solar system could not exist. Scientists who measure the rate of burn of our sun have proven this by reverse calculation.
Very simple: if A burns at the rate of x per year then reversing the equation will produce the size of A in any given year in past history.
Next. Tracing DNA does not prove evolution because humans have more common DNA with some plants than we do some apes.

You would be better served by just asking God to prove Himself. He will not reject you. He loves you.
 

JimKnox

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Thank you,
Well, a theory in science term is different than in the colloquial sense, which is closer to a hypothesis. I pretty much accepted it as the science community has. A theory in science is supported by evidence. Some of the evidence they cite is fossil records and DNA. I also find the resemblance between humans and chimps striking; it makes sense, although I admit I could learn more. I think they observe some organisms mutating or evolving in the lab and I think that might be the extent of it, but I'm not sure. What are some of the assumptions that you think the theory has?
There are some big rats in the Amazon that resemble hippos. Therefore it makes sense that ice cream comes from polar bears.
 

Mancunian

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No. Humans and apes do not share a common ancestors. They share a common Designer.
Next. Alleged relation does not equal descent.
Next. The solar system refutes the "millions of years" hypothesis. Had creation actually evolved over millions of years, our sun would have been so big that the 1st three planets in our solar system could not exist. Scientists who measure the rate of burn of our sun have proven this by reverse calculation.
Very simple: if A burns at the rate of x per year then reversing the equation will produce the size of A in any given year in past history.
Next. Tracing DNA does not prove evolution because humans have more common DNA with some plants than we do some apes.

You would be better served by just asking God to prove Himself. He will not reject you. He loves you.
Do you believe that dinosaurs roamed the planet millions of years ago?
 

JimKnox

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Do you believe that dinosaurs roamed the planet millions of years ago?
Do you believe that dinosaurs roamed the planet millions of years ago?
No. Not "millions" of years ago. Nope.

You see, it went like this:
Approximately 6000+ years ago, God created heaven and earth and all that has ever existed. Among these were great lizard type creatures. In the perfect environment of the time, some creatures never stopped growing. Among those creatures, reptiles of all sorts grew to immense proportions. Humans even lived for almost 1000 years.
Then, about 4000 +/- years ago there was a worldwide flood.
You've heard the story.
 

Deborah_

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i was just wondering what people out here across different faiths view evolution. what are your toughts, do you guys believe in it? if so, do you see a conflict with your faith or not really.
I find the scientific evidence for evolution overwhelming (mainly in terms of the genetic evidence - the fossil record is still too fragmentary).
I'm also aware that none of the fundamental Christian creeds state that we have to believe that the world was created in 6 days, 6000 years ago. So it's quite legitimate for Christians to have differing opinions on this (as indeed we have always had, for 2000 years!)
So personally, I believe that God created the world over millennia, and used evolution to generate the diversity of life that we have today.

personally I think we are advanced monkeys.
Personally, I think we're a lot more than that. We can connect with God and know Him personally. And we have power to manipulate the world like no other creature has. As the Bible puts it, we're "made in God's image" - and He has given us a mandate to rule over the rest of creation.
 
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