Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[ProDeo]

This is dripping with pride.

LOL, it's the opposite!

To prevent pride.

I will testify (as I did at least 2 times in this thread) when there is a reason for it, as a discussion develops that way. Not out of the blue. You can ask a specific question and I will consider an answer.

You overstate your case. Testimony is not pride. Testimony is meant to encourage the inner man in other believers so that they draw nearer to God. All you see is pride. It is no wonder you think I am proud as you are. We see things as WE are. Your pride is SO GREAT that you are unable to help others here. And the your pride is SO GREAT that you want to stop me from ministering to others here.
And you are completely unteachable.

Thank you for another false spanking, you are forgiven again.

Your credits decreased to 488

 

[ProDeo]

I posted this is the dream forum sometime back

In 1993 I was struggling in my walk. I felt like a condemned man every time I walked into church. I went on a three day fast but only lasted two days. Man oh Man I felt condemned even more. I went to sleep that night and had an awesome dream encounter with the Lord. I was taken up into the Holy of Holies. There I saw the Lord pouring himself out in worship to the Father. He was singing this beautiful song over me, thanking the Father for me, As he sang the Father poured out the Spirit upon the Lord without measure. He took his right hand and some splashed onto me. All the while this incredible song was coming from him. I heard a voice behind me say "as he is so shall you be". I woke up immediately and the first thing I wanted to do was write down that song. It was a song of deliverance and it removed all of my condemnation and I was filled with excitement and joy. As I went to write I grew very sleepy and fell back asleep. When I awoke in the AM I could not recall the song...only the effect it had on me.

I went to church the next day and gave a testimony about the dream. Those that condemned me and talked behind my back had fear on their faces. They could see the glory radiating from my face and knew I was set free. It's been many years since that dream and I have never had another encounter like it. However, I will never forget it. I felt like I had hit the lottery...lol

Beautiful.......

I will follow suit, because I want to, because it glorifies the Lord, not myself.

About 3 weeks ago I felt the need to read the prophecies that were spoken over me in the year 1979 and I was flabbergasted because everything said back then has become true. Praise the Lord! I am so thankful. Back then as a young convert personal prophecy was total new for me, not understanding everything, but important enough to write them down.

 

[shepherdsword]

Agreed. The Toronto thing was supposed to be about bringing people back to God who had fallen away...restoring those who were lukewarm and listless...to recharge their batteries so to speak. But people never find the balance....never. An evil and adulterous generation seeks after signs and wonders. It pleases the flesh because it is outward. But signs are to FOLLOW the work of God. And we are not to look back.

But people stayed as they were...not learning God's ways. Grace outpourings will DECEIVE people into thinking that God approves of the way they are. God's love is taken as permissiveness and a "special" status being bestowed on them.

That supposedly privileged status has not been challenged very much in evangelical circles (circus) because they all share the same sin. And into this motley crew of religious plotters I throw in a "holy hand grenade". And the flesh gets in a big snit about this. Prideful feathers get flustered. So then stop conspiring against the Lord and you won't get fragged.

That's a heavy word. It's not God's approval so much as it's God trying to woo us away from the flesh by giving us a taste.

 

[Episkopos]

LOL, it's the opposite!

To prevent pride.

I will testify (as I did at least 2 times in this thread) when there is a reason for it, as a discussion develops that way. Not out of the blue. You can ask a specific question and I will consider an answer.



Thank you for another false spanking, you are forgiven again.

Your credits decreased to 488

LOL I credit you on one of the best deflections I've seen on this thread. I don't know how the credit system works in that regard.

 

[ProDeo]

People will always attack me based on themselves not on me. An opinion comes from the carnal mind. People here are against what I teach because it goes against their opinions. And the stronger the opinion, the stronger the flesh has a hold on them.

Who here goes to any depth of investigation? Who here actually seeks the Lord and hears from Him? Who reads the bible and understands it? Few if any.

So I'm coming from a place of long training by God in what He approves of, and what pleases Him. (instead of checking with AI) My critics know neither of these standards. They throw out both mercy and truth. If I sing about mercy....they don't dance. If I lament because the truth is unknown here, they don't weep.


The false gospel makes promises to the flesh...claiming that God saves the entire person without the CUT of the covenant that divides between the soul and spirit of a man. So these have forsaken the covenant. God CUTS (karat) a covenant with His people...or tries to...but people want to remain intact in their fallen carnal state. Always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

The church of God are His "called out" ones. Called out from the flesh covering, from the religious system, and even from this world. The calling of God is at different depths...but the minimum standard is to have no confidence in the flesh by embracing humility and the fear of the Lord.

That curse of course was terrible.

Here is some wisdom notable from an atheist, if only he had applied his wisdom to himself also but that's another story, here is it anyway -

What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires - desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence.
-- Bertrand Russell, philosopher

And To use the famous words of Clint Eastwood in the movie the good, the bad and the ugly : In this world there are 2 kind of people and arrived here I take over : those who can change opinion and those who can't.

 

[bdavidc]

I didn't corner you. I asked a simple question. And now you gave me a long reply, and replied a few times. Are you mad I asked this question? I don't want to read from a computer. I want to read from real people, and their experiences in their walk with Jesus our Lord. Episkopos is the only person I found that experienced what I did. I'm 42. The rest of you are older then me. I look to my elders, to understand what God has done in my life. Not just for me, but for others. But want to know something. I judge his words hard. I'm not going to let myself to be fooled.

Now, tell me the truth. Have you prayed for a blind person, in fear, when you asked them if you could pray. Not knowing they believed in God. And she said yes. And the very next day, our Father gave you a confirmation for her faith in Him. That her blindness was gone?

I am a real person. I am sitting at a computer right now typing this just like you are sitting at a computer reading this. You have way too much emotion behind that statement if you are implying that I'm somehow not human. Seriously though, you have quite the imagination if you think that.

You just avoided the question again. I gave you Romans 3, Romans 4, Romans 5, Romans 11, Titus 3, Galatians 1 and Acts 17. Instead of responding to those Scriptures, you want to tell me about this one time you prayed for a blind woman.

Let me help you understand something. Whether or not I have ever prayed for a blind person has nothing to do with whether or not Episkopos is teaching biblical truth. Stop trying to substitute Scripture with an experience and then declare that your experience validates his doctrine.

Even if what you say happened verbatim, that still would not mean Episkopos is teaching biblical truth. “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?” Jesus literally warned about people saying this and yet He STILL says to them, “I never knew you.” (Matthew 7: 22-23) Extraordinary experiences are not the measure of truth.

God even told Israel that if a sign or wonder was performed and it came to pass they were still required to judge the message by what God had already said was truth (Deuteronomy 13:1-3). Paul took it a step further when he said, “Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you... let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:8)

So you know I will not be swayed by “well he experienced what I experienced.” That is exactly how people get deceived from Scripture. You come along and confirm their experience and now suddenly they are willing to excuse what he teaches about grace, works, salvation and even who Christ is.

You say you “judge his words hard”. Then GO FOR IT. Quit telling me about your spiritual experiences and ANSWER THE SCRIPTURES that say what he is teaching is wrong.

**“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good”** (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

That means prove Episkopos by proving him RIGHT by the Word of God, NOT by your experience, NOT by his experience, NOT by how long he has been walking with God, and DEFINITELY NOT by how you feel about what he said relating to your experience.

The Bible is our standard. EVERYTHING is measured by it.

 

[Episkopos]

I am a real person. I am sitting at a computer right now typing this just like you are sitting at a computer reading this. You have way too much emotion behind that statement if you are implying that I'm somehow not human. Seriously though, you have quite the imagination if you think that.

You just avoided the question again. I gave you Romans 3, Romans 4, Romans 5, Romans 11, Titus 3, Galatians 1 and Acts 17. Instead of responding to those Scriptures, you want to tell me about this one time you prayed for a blind woman.

Let me help you understand something. Whether or not I have ever prayed for a blind person has nothing to do with whether or not Episkopos is teaching biblical truth. Stop trying to substitute Scripture with an experience and then declare that your experience validates his doctrine.

Even if what you say happened verbatim, that still would not mean Episkopos is teaching biblical truth. “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?” Jesus literally warned about people saying this and yet He STILL says to them, “I never knew you.” (Matthew 7: 22-23) Extraordinary experiences are not the measure of truth.

God even told Israel that if a sign or wonder was performed and it came to pass they were still required to judge the message by what God had already said was truth (Deuteronomy 13:1-3). Paul took it a step further when he said, “Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you... let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:8)

So you know I will not be swayed by “well he experienced what I experienced.” That is exactly how people get deceived from Scripture. You come along and confirm their experience and now suddenly they are willing to excuse what he teaches about grace, works, salvation and even who Christ is.

You say you “judge his words hard”. Then GO FOR IT. Quit telling me about your spiritual experiences and ANSWER THE SCRIPTURES that say what he is teaching is wrong.

**“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good”** (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

That means prove Episkopos by proving him RIGHT by the Word of God, NOT by your experience, NOT by his experience, NOT by how long he has been walking with God, and DEFINITELY NOT by how you feel about what he said relating to your experience.

The Bible is our standard. EVERYTHING is measured by it.

And if you don't understand the bible you can always consult AI...right?

 

[bdavidc]

People will always attack me based on themselves not on me. An opinion comes from the carnal mind. People here are against what I teach because it goes against their opinions. And the stronger the opinion, the stronger the flesh has a hold on them.

Who here goes to any depth of investigation? Who here actually seeks the Lord and hears from Him? Who reads the bible and understands it? Few if any.

So I'm coming from a place of long training by God in what He approves of, and what pleases Him. (instead of checking with AI) My critics know neither of these standards. They throw out both mercy and truth. If I sing about mercy....they don't dance. If I lament because the truth is unknown here, they don't weep.


The false gospel makes promises to the flesh...claiming that God saves the entire person without the CUT of the covenant that divides between the soul and spirit of a man. So these have forsaken the covenant. God CUTS (karat) a covenant with His people...or tries to...but people want to remain intact in their fallen carnal state. Always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

The church of God are His "called out" ones. Called out from the flesh covering, from the religious system, and even from this world. The calling of God is at different depths...but the minimum standard is to have no confidence in the flesh by embracing humility and the fear of the Lord.

You see here precisely my problem with your teaching. People set your doctrine side-by-side with Scripture, and instead of you answering the Scriptures you tell them that you've been "long trained by God", that your opponents are carnal, that few people actually understand the Bible, and that you come from some spiritual level much higher than they're accustomed to because you hear from God. Guess what, I also hear from God, and you are not Him.

None of that proves anything. Your spiritual training does not become the standard because it is not coming from God. God's written Word is. "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God" (1 John 4:1). Paul didn't tell Christians to accept what a teacher says merely because he claims special training from God. He told them to "let the other judge" (1 Corinthians 14:29).

You then you make up this doctrine that somehow salvation requires some covenant "cut" separating soul and spirit. Produce that from Scripture. Hebrews 4: 12 says the Word of God is "piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit. " It does not say this is how God cuts a covenant with man making that sinner suddenly acceptable to God. You are taking words that are biblical and using them to construct a doctrine the text does not teach.

And to say that God "tries to" cut a covenant with man is equally atrocious. Scripture does not portray the gospel as God trying to cut a covenant but the man continually frustrating Him. Jesus plainly said, **"This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. "** (Luke 22: 20) The New covenant rests upon the blood of Christ, not upon your mystical cutting/covenant theory.

The gospel is crystal clear. "To him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. " (Romans 4: 5) "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. " (Titus 3:5) You are fighting against this.

Galatians 1: 9 does not become null and void simply because we have now received the completed written Word of God. Paul said, "If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." ANY MAN. It still applies to that man teaching today who claims to have special training from God and yet he preaches a gospel that nullifies salvation by grace apart from works.

You can continue calling everyone else carnal and understanding something few men understand. That doesn't give you authority. It shows you are a false teacher. If your doctrine collapses when placed side-by-side with Scripture then it is FALSE doctrine.

 

[Lizbeth]

This is dripping with pride. You overstate your case. Testimony is not pride. Testimony is meant to encourage the inner man in other believers so that they draw nearer to God. All you see is pride. It is no wonder you think I am proud as you are. We see things as WE are. Your pride is SO GREAT that you are unable to help others here. And the your pride is SO GREAT that you want to stop me from ministering to others here.
And you are completely unteachable.

We overcome the world by the blood (life) of the Lamb and the word of our testimony.

There is an eternity of difference between sharing a testimony and boasting. Just like there is between true righteousness and self-righteousness. And God is never fooled...he sees and knows the motives of every heart.

 

[bdavidc]

And if you don't understand the bible you can always consult AI...right?

There it is again. No Scripture. No rebuttal. No answer. Just another cheap shot about AI.

And just so you are clear, I do not "ask AI what the Bible means." I search the Bible. Scripture is what I am using to prove or disprove doctrine. AI is a program that I may use for research or wording. IT IS NOT my authority and IT DOES NOT tell me what the Bible means.

So your snarky little comment is completely off point. The issue is still staring you in the face. You have been provided Scripture that disproves what you teach. Instead of addressing those verses you want to talk about AI, that is a dodge. Maybe you should try searching the scriptures instead of making it up as you go.

So stop with the AI nonsense and ANSWER THE BIBLE.

If your doctrine is biblical, prove it. Quote Scripture. If the only thing you have left is snarky comments about AI because you cannot refute the verses that are put in front of you...than you are proving my point.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

The stage in between is one where one knows the truth about no such thing as gradual sanctification, has been enlightened and can now decide whether to sin or not. They are in control of deliberate sin but not unintentional sin, and wish to go on to perfection, if they have not seared their consciences. Many in the holiness movement got stuck in this stage.

Is there any church left that teaches this?

When my husband and I read Scripture, we feel it clear that we are to stop sinning entirely and go on to perfection, especially in love.

1 John 3:5-6
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.


We have given up finding a group that will go anywhere near this.

 

[Hepzibah]

Is there any church left that teaches this?

When my husband and I read Scripture, we feel it clear that we are to stop sinning entirely and go on to perfection, especially in love.

1 John 3:5-6
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.


We have given up finding a group that will go anywhere near this.

Hi I am not finding a church that teaches it as an event. The Orthodox teach it as a process like all the other churches apparently, in these modern times.

In the past, Orthodoxy, Wesleyism, the Sally Army, Nazarines and Quakerism taught it but usually after a revival and the next generation not so much till it faded away.

I feel recently led to join the Quakers although they are liberal. I believe that God wants to bring revival.

I am very pleased to hear that the Holy Spirit is working in you and revealing it to you. In fact I am thrilled!

I advise listening carefully and obeying as taught by Him even in small matters. He convicted me of not taking the supermarket trolly back from my car so I obeyed.This shows Him you mean business!

The translation into holiness will come sooner when you set your 'face towards Jerusalem'.

Contact me if I can help further.

 

[Lizbeth]

LOL The higher walk is intimacy with God...something UNKNOWN to evangelical types. They prefer a "positional" and fictional relationship with a God that already agrees with them. If a god doesn't justify them then that's "OBVIOUSLY" not God. God would never rebuke them or chasten them (If He did it would be because He loves them). The higher walk will always be for so few that a child might count them (at any one time). There is no chance that a higher intimacy with God will catch on as a popular movement...unless it be a revival of holiness...which will soon be drowned out by evangelical tourist types that are looking for justification wherever they can find it

There is nothing funny about it.........EVERYTHING tests us, even a "higher walk" I assume.

 

[ProDeo]

There is an eternity of difference between sharing a testimony and boasting. Just like there is between true righteousness and self-righteousness. And God is never fooled...he sees and knows the motives of every heart.

Amen.

And we are told to do everything in faith (Rom 14:23), in doubt then don't, it's sin.

 

[Azim]

A lot, but I don't like to boast about it.

Brother. I was hoping you could edify me, in my own walk. I've been down hard in depression. Thinking what I've experienced was insane. I didn't ask you to boast, but to help me, from another brother. Are you not my brother in Christ? Or am I a son of Satan, the enemy?

 

[Episkopos]

The translation into holiness .

Amen. Not many will acknowledge this very basic truth about our upward call into Christ.

 

[Hepzibah]

Amen. Not many will acknowledge this very basic truth about our upward call into Christ.

Depicted in the Transfiguration and called the Heavenly Vision in the early church.

 

[Episkopos]

Depicted in the Transfiguration and called the Heavenly Vision in the early church.

Elevation to be sure. But the bible draws a distinction between a heavenly visitation and a translation or relocation from one realm to the other. To be seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

There is a big difference between a visitation from God to us and our translation to be where He is...in His keeping power. The translation KEEPS us in God for as long as we don't sin unto death. The keeping power of God is like a fridge magnet whereby we remain in close proximity to Him in intimacy until the cares of this world overcomes the magnetic power that keeps us stuck fast (or cleaving to) to the fridge. Like when we try putting too many papers or photos between the magnet and the fridge. When we do that, we fall out of the Spirit. A fall from grace. A fall from the FULL measure of grace....(not a fall from the initial sample of grace).

When I say a fall from grace people who have never been translated into the kingdom will react because they have only received a sample of grace, so often (or not even), and so they can't accept a falling away from a free gift. What people don't understand is that what they are doing by NOT seeking God for the full measure of grace that gets us translated into the kingdom realm in victory over sin....is that they are frustrating grace....frustrating the PURPOSE of grace.....and burying their sample as something that comforts them in their own estimation...mistaking the gift for intimacy and approval from God. They love the gift but not the Giver. (He is seen as too demanding)

The free sample of grace is merely a calling, an invitation, to draw nearer to God.

Many are called but few are chosen.

Maran atha <><

 

[Hepzibah]

Elevation to be sure. But the bible draws a distinction between a heavenly visitation and a translation or relocation from one realm to the other. To be seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

There is a big difference between a visitation from God to us and our translation to be where He is...in His keeping power. The translation KEEPS us in God for as long as we don't sin unto death. The keeping power of God is like a fridge magnet whereby we remain in close proximity to Him in intimacy until the cares of this world overcomes the magnetic power that keeps us stuck fast (or cleaving to) to the fridge. Like when we try putting too many papers or photos between the magnet and the fridge. When we do that, we fall out of the Spirit. A fall from grace. A fall from the FULL measure of grace....not a fall from the initial sample of grace.

When I say a fall from grace people who have never been translated into the kingdom will react because they have only received a sample of grace, so often (or not even), and so they can't accept a falling away from a free gift. What people don't understand is that what they are doing by NOT seeking God for the full measure of grace that gets us translated into the kingdom realm in victory over sin....is that they are frustrating grace...and burying their sample as something that comforts them in their own estimation...mistaking the gift for intimacy and approval from God.

It is merely a calling, an invitation to draw nearer to God.

Many are called few are chosen.

Maran atha <><

Yes I agree, there is a difference, and a vision of the glorified Christ can be the start of the translation or just a fleeting blessing.

People ask how can one fall from that state? The quickest way is to rely in their own strength ie the flesh by using their intellect instead of relying on the Spirit for guidance which leads inevitable to a sin then a fall.

 

[ProDeo]

Brother. I was hoping you could edify me, in my own walk. I've been down hard in depression. Thinking what I've experienced was insane. I didn't ask you to boast, but to help me, from another brother. Are you not my brother in Christ? Or am I a son of Satan, the enemy?

Dear Azim, sorry to hear you are into a depression, I don't know what say. Depression is so complex. And terrible. This despite the fact depression runs in my family for 4 generations and I had my fair share in 3 periods lasting ~2 years in waves of 7 years. I am free now for 33 years. Fact is my first depression period lasting ~2 years led me to the Lord, at the depth of my despair the Lord picked me up when I was crying out to Him for help, a life changing experience.

Depression is so complex, can have so many reasons, in my case the problem was 2 folded. Problem one, I have a chemical imbalance in my brain, some gland over there is lazy and did not produce the necessary serotonin, doctor gave me a subscription for a new medicine (1993) and within 6 weeks I was my usual self again, a miracle, never been depressed.

And there was a second problem bigger than the physical one, spiritual in nature. As a young Christian I became fascinated in the teachings of Watchman Nee, in fact I have read every book of him that was translated into Dutch. And I opened myself for leading a life in the Holy Spirit (Rom 8), overcoming sin (8:13) and receiving God's guidance, for instance this (and other verses) :

Isa 30:21 And your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, “This is the way, walk in it,” when you turn to the right or when you turn to the left.

And in retrospect here things went wrong. I had this desire to work for the Lord full time and at some point I had faith (was convinced) the Lord wanted this too. And so I gave up my good job and we started to live like that, we had some money so we could afford it, waiting and trusting the Lord He would care for the financial part. And it did not happen, after 9 months the money was up and I had to find a job to feed the mouths of my wife and 3 children. And I was devastated, what went wrong, I did not know and I fell into another depression, nothing to do with a chemical imbalance in my brain. This was serious. My faith was shaken, something was very wrong, but what?

And I realized I had to change, never make this mistake again, but how? I did nevertheless. Answers came eventually by revelation from the Lord. My walk in the Spirit back then was for real but mixed with self interest and pride, thus not pure, unacceptable for the Lord. An eye opener in tears and yet such a big lesson, but the lesson was 2 folded.

While the first part was learned (I am such a sinner, in my flesh is no good) the next part of the lesson was not learned, namely, while knowing I was forgiven, the disappointment in myself was still there. But why? Aha, that is pride as well. I still had not seen what I am, a sinner, it's what sinners do, so why the the disappointment in myself?, still hoping to do better next time? Give the flesh another big spanking and try again? And that's what I did for decades. Better not.

Alright, this has been way too long, likely it won't reflect your depression but maybe you can elaborate a bit about your depression and maybe I can say something that makes sense.

Jesus loves you.