Who goes back with Jesus in the pre-tribulation rapture?

[WPM]

The fact he even goes there, is pathetic.
Pretty sure he is amil.
They use a different Bible and the conversation is beyond tedious.

Amil = antisemitism.

Isn't it amazing that none of you Pretribs can actually answer one single question, present one single Scripture that supports their Jesuit error (that there will be two future comings of the Lord separated by a tribulation). You have nothing. You have nothing but name calling and avoidance to present to Amils. Pretrib is dead. It just needs a decent burial.

 

[IndianaRob]

I'm thinking your "bubble" popped.

I hate that you feel that way but I have to keep my beliefs confined to what the Bible says.

 

[grafted branch]

I hate that you feel that way but I have to keep my beliefs confined to what the Bible says.

In John:3:5 Jesus says Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Matthew 13:41 is talking about the tares in kingdom being removed yet John 3:5 says no one can enter the kingdom unless he is born of water and spirit. From Matthew 13:38 we know the tares are the children of the wicked one.

Is this kind of what you’re talking about? I mean how did the tares get into the kingdom of God in the first place?

 

[WPM]

Jesus said "before the flood, normal life, normal activities, half a group is taken, watch and be ready"
So tell it to Jesus. Since you say he is wrong.

Mat 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I refuted your claim several times and you have avoided it every time. Your doctrine is dead. You have nothing to bring to the table. All you have is what you've been taught now.

 

[David in NJ]

I hear you saying that if you believe in the pre-trib rapture of the church....you're not saved.

Not at all!!!

Where did you see that in the post?

 

[David in NJ]

Don't take the "mark" David in NJ.

And you???

 

[IndianaRob]

In John:3:5 Jesus says Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Matthew 13:41 is talking about the tares in kingdom being removed yet John 3:5 says no one can enter the kingdom unless he is born of water and spirit. From Matthew 13:38 we know the tares are the children of the wicked one.

Is this kind of what you’re talking about? I mean how did the tares get into the kingdom of God in the first place?

The tares were in the kingdom under Pharisee control. The kingdom greatly changed at the cross and tares aren’t allowed in the new kingdom.

 

[grafted branch]

The tares were in the kingdom under Pharisee control. The kingdom greatly changed at the cross and tares aren’t allowed in the new kingdom.

I absolutely agree, that’s the only way the tares could’ve gotten in.

 

[IndianaRob]

I absolutely agree, that’s the only way the tares could’ve gotten in.

The new kingdom is one of the many good things Christ came to accomplish for us. I just wish more Christians could see it and enter into it.

I picture it as heaven coming down and surrounding the believer — a kind of heavenly envelope. Not a place we go someday, but something we're already inside.

Paul says we've been translated into it (Col 1:13), and that our citizenship is in heaven (Phil 3:20). Hebrews 12:22 says we are come to the heavenly Jerusalem — present tense, already. Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you (Luke 17:21), and that it's righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost (Rom 14:17).

That's not waiting on us. It's here, and most of us are living outside something we already have access to.

 

[grafted branch]

The new kingdom is one of the many good things Christ came to accomplish for us. I just wish more Christians could see it and enter into it.

I picture it as heaven coming down and surrounding the believer — a kind of heavenly envelope. Not a place we go someday, but something we're already inside.

Paul says we've been translated into it (Col 1:13), and that our citizenship is in heaven (Phil 3:20). Hebrews 12:22 says we are come to the heavenly Jerusalem — present tense, already. Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you (Luke 17:21), and that it's righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost (Rom 14:17).

That's not waiting on us. It's here, and most of us are living outside something we already have access to.

Yes, I agree. I think we have access to new Jerusalem which is in new heaven new earth right now.
Do you see new heaven new earth existing at the same time as old heaven old earth? (I think old heaven old earth represents old covenant).
Some people argue that old heaven old earth must be gone prior to new heaven new earth.

 

[ewq1938]

I’m not following you. Is this the Bible translation you’re using because I don’t see two things. I see show the bride and then the city. Where do you see two things?

The city and the people entering the city. The city is not the bride, the saved people entering it are.

Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

The bride is here:

Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

Let's use the example of a Jewish bride in the old Hebrew custom. The home would be prepared before the bride would ever see it. In Rev 21 it's the same with the city ready to receive the bride (saved people whose names are in the book of life). That's born again people of all nations who come into the city. The city is clearly not the bride but receives the bride.

 

[CrowCross]

Isn't it amazing that none of you Pretribs can actually answer one single question, present one single Scripture that supports their Jesuit error (that there will be two future comings of the Lord separated by a tribulation). You have nothing. You have nothing but name calling and avoidance to present to Amils. Pretrib is dead. It just needs a decent burial.

Lets go with the white horse and description of the days of Noah.

Lets not forget Gods wrath...punishment for the evil of the world that we all deserve...but Jesus paid the price for our salvation from it on the cross. Christians are not destined for wrath.

There's more...

You speak a lot of nonsense WPM.

If you're a christian WPM and still alive when the pre-trib rapture occurs you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[CrowCross]

Not at all!!!

Where did you see that in the post?

Have you ever considered the danger of adding your words upon God's???

What is this "danger" you speak of?

 

[CrowCross]

And you???

I won't be here to take the mark.....will you?

 

[ewq1938]

Christians are not destined for wrath.

Wrong. Rev 12 is clear the Christians are destined for wrath:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[NayborBear]

There are some who argue you will miss the pre-trib rapture because you don't believe it and are not looking for it.

Sounds pretty obvious you don't believe in no pre-trib rapture. Seeings how we are nearing the end of the "pre" phase of tribulation/s!
And guess what?
Save for those who have physically died?
Everyone is STILL HERE!
Go figure eh?

 

[CrowCross]

Wrong. Rev 12 is clear the Christians are destined for wrath:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I was speaking of christians prior to the pre-trib rapture. I agree, those that become the elect will face severe opposition.

 

[CrowCross]

Sounds pretty obvious you don't believe in no pre-trib rapture. Seeings how we are nearing the end of the "pre" phase of tribulation/s!
And guess what?
Save for those who have physically died?
Everyone is STILL HERE!
Go figure eh?

2 Peter 3:4 They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.”

 

[rwb]

The new kingdom is one of the many good things Christ came to accomplish for us. I just wish more Christians could see it and enter into it.

I picture it as heaven coming down and surrounding the believer — a kind of heavenly envelope. Not a place we go someday, but something we're already inside.

Paul says we've been translated into it (Col 1:13), and that our citizenship is in heaven (Phil 3:20). Hebrews 12:22 says we are come to the heavenly Jerusalem — present tense, already. Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you (Luke 17:21), and that it's righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost (Rom 14:17).

That's not waiting on us. It's here, and most of us are living outside something we already have access to.

This is all true, but for now, as long as there is still time before the seventh trumpet sounds, we are in the Kingdom of God when we are born again spiritually (have been saved), NOT physically. We are in the Kingdom of God through the Spirit of Christ in us the moment we believe (know/understand/see) there is a Kingdom of God and in spirit (not flesh & blood) the Kingdom of God is within because we have been born from above, born again through Christ's Spirit. Because to know and enter the Kingdom of God we MUST be born again, and none can be born again until we know/understand/see through spiritual sight according to grace through faith that with new birth we are eternally saved.

Then when the hour comes and time given this earth wherein man must be saved by being born again of Christ's Spirit has come to an end, those who are spiritually in the Kingdom of God now shall be changed from mortal to immortal body of flesh and then we will PHYSICALLY be in the Kingdom of God that shall be on the new earth after this first earth passes away.

You speak of being in the Kingdom of God that is now but then you refuse to acknowledge that only those who have eternal life (saved) are in the Kingdom of God because we have been born again/eternally saved??? Why are you fighting so vehemently against the fact that we are eternally saved when we are born again???

We're not waiting to know and enter the Kingdom of God that we are spiritually alive in now, we are waiting for the full manifestation of the Kingdom of God that shall be physical upon the new earth when the Lord returns. Because we have eternal life from the moment we are saved and have been born again.

 

[David in NJ]

I won't be here to take the mark.....will you?

Are you planning on dying soon?

That is the only way you will avoid seeing the Antichrist and The Mark.

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. 4He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.