The Two Anointed Ones = The Two Witnesses

[Earburner]

As a Born again Amillennial believer in Christ, I have always understood that God's prophetic words are mostly based upon His own Eternal Spiritual thoughts/language, and not so much that of our own human thoughts and how we understand the words of our own written languages.
Isa. 55:8-9
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

What if, instead of reading and interpreting those scriptures in Rev. 11:1-14 literally, according to our ways of thinking, we are to interpret them spiritually by the Mind of Christ within us, so that we might know that the biblical "Great City" is not about buildings like that of man, but rather it is God's description of the people of God in which He desires to dwell?

In 1 Cor. ch. 2:9-16, Paul explains quite clearly that the spiritual value of our understanding is to be revealed to us by "comparing spiritual things with spiritual", thus allowing the Mind of Christ's Holy Spirit within us to interpret God's spiritual truths to us, and not that which is preached to us by the ways of "the wisdom of men".

In Rev. 11:8 we are specifically shown that "the great city" is to be understood in the spiritual truth of what it is being "COMPARED WITH". In that example, we are to understand that the Great City is compared to that of Egypt (symbolized as captivity) and that of Sodom (symbolized as sin). Putting the two together, we can conclude that in the comparison by example, God has been working to deliver His people from their CAPTIVITY of SIN.

Since the first manifestation of Jesus, that is the "spiritual" message to all of us, through faith in Jesus' sacrificial death.
For the past 2,026 years, in each "Year of our Lord", God has been "patient" and "longsuffering" in His "Promise" and attempt to  DELIVER each of us from the "CAPTIVITY" of "SIN", "not willing that any should perish".
However, if by faith in Jesus, we do not receive the Free Gift of God's Deliverence by His Gift of Salvation, our names will not be found written in the book of Life and therefore there is NO escape from the second death.

Has anyone here dared to believe that those who God prophesied of in Zech. 4:14, as being "His two anointed ones", are in fact that of John the Baptist and Jesus?

Could it be that Rev. 11:1-14 is nothing more than an allegorical story of spiritual truth, telling us all that the literal manifestation of John the Baptist and Jesus, were indeed God's promised ones, being they who are described as the "two anointed ones", and therefore the prophecy of "the two witnesses", has already been fulfilled?

 

[Earburner]

Please go ahead and take hold of what I am suggesting. I would like to know if anyone else has entertained these thoughts as I have. There is an enormous amount of biblical truth for what I am saying.

 

[ewq1938]

The two anointed ones are the two olive trees, not the two witnesses. The two olive trees are PART of the two witnesses. The other part are the two candlesticks, which are churches as a passage in Rev explains.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

 

[Truth7t7]

Has anyone here dared to believe that those who God prophesied of in Zech. 4:14, as being "His two anointed ones", are in fact that of John the Baptist and Jesus?

The (Two Witnesses) will have literal bodies that die and lay in a literal street in Jerusalem, as a literal world watches in celebrating their deaths, exchanging literal gifts between one another in this celebration

Jesus died once and now sits at the right hand of the father, your claim that Jesus is one of the (Two Witnesses) is 100% "False"!

 

[Truth7t7]

Please go ahead and take hold of what I am suggesting. I would like to know if anyone else has entertained these thoughts as I have. There is an enormous amount of biblical truth for what I am saying.

I Disagree as described in post #4 above

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Earburner]

The two anointed ones are the two olive trees, not the two witnesses. The two olive trees are PART of the two witnesses. The other part are the two candlesticks, which are churches as a passage in Rev explains.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Thanks for your reply @ewq1938 to my original post #1.
I am aware of the literal differences and likenesses between the words "the two anointed ones" and the words "my two witnesses" and their relationship to each other.
However, I believe that a very important point about "OIL" is being overlooked, which is crucial to understand for both descriptions. The word "oil" in Zech. 4:12 is directly symbolic of the "anointing" of a person/people by the Holy Spirit of God.

But first, In Zechariah's vision of the two olive trees/branches, there is a clue here for us is to connect with, and that is the words [two olive trees/branches] are in the plural.
However, in Zech. 3:8 we only see ONE of the trees/branches being "BROUGHT FORTH", whereas the other branch apparently comes forth from a different origin : "I will BRING FORTH my servant (singular) the BRANCH".

So then, before we can move on into any depth of understanding about who the "TWO anointed ones" are, we must first isolate and discover who IT IS exactly that "God will bring forth", that He calls: "my servant the BRANCH".

In my understanding, there is no question as to who that is, it is Jesus, hence my reference of Prov. 8:22-25, specifically:
22. The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

As for the other tree/branch and the OIL, is it the chuches, or could it be in the singular also, as being that of an additional person? Stay with those thoughts, and we will soon discover who that additional person is, who was anointed FIRST by God's Holy Spirit, WHEN NO ONE ELSE WAS.

Edit: maybe you will find the NT scriptures about that additional person's anointing before I come back and show the proof of it.

 

[Earburner]

The (Two Witnesses) will have literal bodies that die and lay in a literal street in Jerusalem, as a literal world watches in celebrating their deaths, exchanging literal gifts between one another in this celebration

Jesus died once and now sits at the right hand of the father, your claim that Jesus is one of the (Two Witnesses) is 100% "False"!

Ok....but when Jesus was dieing on the cross and then gave up the Holy Spirit within him, what did the Roman Centurion notice of that which was happenening around him, while he was officially commanded to keep his eyes on Jesus?
Mat. 27:50-54.
Yes, 52-53 describes what the centurion saw. "And the graves were opened: and MANY BODIES of the [OC.] Saints which slept arose. And came out of the graves AFTER his resurrection, and went into the Holy city, and appeared unto MANY.

Did you ever wonder if John the Baptist was one of those Saints? You do know that he was born and then died while he was under the altar of the OC.?
Do you think that God allowed them all to be resurrected after Jesus (who was "the First resurrection:), and then to let them mortally die again, only to be thrown back into the grave again, to be resurrected again in the far future??

Did you catch that? Jesus was/is "The [VERY] First resurrection". Please connect that with Rev. 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Did you know that if you are Born again by God's Holy Spirit, you are now having part in the first resurrection,...who is Jesus?

 

[ewq1938]

Did you know that if you are Born again by God's Holy Spirit, you are now having part in the first resurrection,...who is Jesus?

The first resurrection of Rev 20 is not Jesus but the saved dead Christians that Jesus will resurrect. They are the FIRST resurrection group, a second is also found resurrecting later in Rev 20. You are confusing being born again while alive with the future physical resurrection of the saved dead.

 

[Truth7t7]

Did you know that if you are Born again by God's Holy Spirit, you are now having part in the first resurrection,...who is Jesus?

Your claims and Doctrines are "False"

Being born again isn't a resurrection, nor does it represent the future bodily resurrection

What's Next?

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

The first resurrection of Rev 20 is not Jesus but the saved dead Christians that Jesus will resurrect. They are the FIRST resurrection group, a second is also found resurrecting later in Rev 20. You are confusing being born again while alive with the future physical resurrection of the saved dead.

Revelation 20:6 "The First Resurrection" Explained

There will be "Two Future Resurrections" on "The Last Day" the righteous saved are "Blessed" to be in "The First Resurrection" to eternal life, the second death resurrection has no power over the righteous saved

The second death will see the unsaved wicked being in "The Second Resurrection" to eternal damnation in the lake of fire, or the "Second Death"

"The Last Day" Resurrection of "All"

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Revelation 20:6KJV
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

1.) The First Resurrection To Eternal Life
2.) The Second Resurrection To Eternal Damnation, Second Death

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(The First Resurrection Of The Righteous Saved) The Dead In Christ Shall Rise "First"

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(The Second Resurrection Of The Wicked To The Second Death In Eternal Damnation)

Revelation 20:13-14KJV
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[Earburner]

The first resurrection of Rev 20 is not Jesus but the saved dead Christians that Jesus will resurrect. They are the FIRST resurrection group, a second is also found resurrecting later in Rev 20. You are confusing being born again while alive with the future physical resurrection of the saved dead.

You don't believe that Jesus was The FIRST Resurrection, and the many OC. Saints that came out of their graves after Him were part of it?
Then you have believed and followed some twisted concepts and lies.
If there ever was a verifiable first resurrection of Jesus Himself, and the MANY OC. saints that resurrected after Him, for now it just doesn't get any better than that!!
By the way, please show in the bible where it says: "the 2nd resurrection".
It doesn't.

Rev. 20:6 has been ongoing upto this very day, ever since the First resurrection began with Jesus Himself!!
"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection [who is Jesus]: on such the second death hath no power, BUT they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a [figurative] thousand years.

 

[Earburner]

To @ewq1938 From post #6:

Edit: maybe you will find the NT scriptures about that additional person's anointing before I come back and show the proof of it.

Did you know that John the Baptist was born six mos. before Jesus was born?
Here is Biblical proof of the anointing of John the Baptist BEFORE "the Branch [Jesus]" was "brought forth from Everlasting" and was made to be flesh:
Luke 1
13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost [anointed], even from his mother's womb.

 

[Earburner]

The first resurrection of Rev 20 is not Jesus but the saved dead Christians that Jesus will resurrect. They are the FIRST resurrection group, a second is also found resurrecting later in Rev 20. You are confusing being born again while alive with the future physical resurrection of the saved dead.

Do you fully understand what Jesus is saying here about Born again Christians and their state of being after our mortal death?
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth AND believeth IN me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[Earburner]

Your claims and Doctrines are "False"

Being born again isn't a resurrection, nor does it represent the future bodily resurrection

What's Next?

Jesus Is The Lord

Please explain briefly what John 11:26 means to you.

If you had died yesterday, and Jesus was to return in all His Immortal Glory a week later, where would you be coming from, in order to be with Him upon His Glorious return?
Will you be asleep In your grave, or asleep in Jesus in heaven ( please recall the words Jesus said to the repentant thief on the cross).
1 Thes. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

So, my point is, after being mortally dead for a week, will you be "rising" from your sleep, or "rising" from your death??

 

[ewq1938]

You don't believe that Jesus was The FIRST Resurrection, and the many OC. Saints that came out of their graves after Him were part of it?

No. The first resurrection is in Rev 20 and it is the first of two resurrections of the dead. There is no other interpretation possible unless one takes "first resurrection" out of Rev 20 and redefines it, which is what has been done.

Then you have believed and followed some twisted concepts and lies.
If there ever was a verifiable first resurrection of Jesus Himself, and the MANY OC. saints that resurrected after Him, for now it just doesn't get any better than that!!
By the way, please show in the bible where it says: "the 2nd resurrection".
It doesn't.

That is the argument from silence fallacy. The second resurrection is described. If one resurrection happens and later another, it is the second one. It's not debatable.

Rev. 20:6 has been ongoing upto this very day, ever since the First resurrection began with Jesus Himself!!

Wrong.

 

[NayborBear]

Rev. 20:6 has been ongoing upto this very day, ever since the First resurrection began with Jesus Himself!!
"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection [who is Jesus]: on such the second death hath no power, BUT they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a [figurative] thousand years.

In the "hopes" you are understanding that there is a "definitive separation" between "Priests of Christ" who are "still" (if you will) in the "candidate state" "after the Order of Melchizedek."
Whereas "Priests of God" ARE "Priests after the Order of Melchizedek."

This "definitive separation" is what AND where many many of todays believers (how can I say) get it wrong?

 

[Earburner]

Now, I didn't start this thread to debate over the factual evidence of OUR resurrection, but rather to discuss how it is that the two anointed ones in Zech. 4 are indeed the two anointed witnesses, in Rev. 11, being John the Baptist and Jesus our Lord and Savior, who BOTH were the very first people in all the world to HAVE the permanent Indwelling of God's Holy Spirit.
Could we please stay on the topic of this thread?

 

[Earburner]

No. The first resurrection is in Rev 20 and it is the first of two resurrections of the dead. There is no other interpretation possible unless one takes "first resurrection" out of Rev 20 and redefines it, which is what has been done.





That is the argument from silence fallacy. The second resurrection is described. If one resurrection happens and later another, it is the second one. It's not debatable.






Wrong.

So you say, but....could we please stay on the topic of this thread?
Thanks.

In my post #6, I have biblically proved that John the Baptist was permanently anointed by God's Holy Spirit, even in his mothers womb upon birth, being the FIRST anointed ONE of the "two anointed ones" of Zech. 4:14.
These [John and Jesus] are the two anointed ones, that stand by [for] the Lord of the whole earth.

John the Baptist is the witness of who Jesus is, and Jesus is the witness of who God the Father is.

 

[Earburner]

In the "hopes" you are understanding that there is a "definitive separation" between "Priests of Christ" who are "still" (if you will) in the "candidate state" "after the Order of Melchizedek."
Whereas "Priests of God" ARE "Priests after the Order of Melchizedek."

This "definitive separation" is what AND where many many of todays believers (how can I say) get it wrong?

Let's keep it simple this way, Priests act as intercessors between God and man. We are sent to preach the gospel of salvation to all people. Therefore, God through Christ in us is reconciling the world unto Himself.
2 Cor. 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[Earburner]

No. The first resurrection is in Rev 20 and it is the first of two resurrections of the dead. There is no other interpretation possible unless one takes "first resurrection" out of Rev 20 and redefines it, which is what has been done.





That is the argument from silence fallacy. The second resurrection is described. If one resurrection happens and later another, it is the second one. It's not debatable.






Wrong.

I am still waiting. Where in scripture does it ever literally say that there will be a second resurrection?