The Spirit Delivers From The Power Of The Flesh, The Spirit Gives Sonship, The Spirit Assures Of Future Glory, The Spirit Assures Of Final Victory

[1stCenturyLady]

“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. ”
Galatians 5:17 KJV

Right verse; you also see its wrong. They Capitalized Spirit, instead of spirit. It is a publisher's error, resulting in subsidizing false doctrines.

The Spirit does NOT wrestle against the flesh, because we are "not in the flesh but in the Spirit if the Spirit of God indwells us. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ he does not belong to Christ." Romans 8:9

That is a total contradiction. But everyone has a sin nature when born, and our nature consists of everything inside our body, but does not include the body. Inside is our spirit and soul representing our mind and heart. Romans 7:25 Those are what is born again of the Spirit.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No, Paul, is not talking about "that" body of flesh--"you do not sow that body that shall be" (1 Corinthians 15:37).

In Romans 7:5 "the flesh is the carnal nature that we are NOT in, Romans 8:9. Paul is not referring to our body that still must die and be resurrected at the Second Coming of Christ. It is our spirit and mind (our nature) that is the old man, "the flesh" that is crucified and is resurrected with Christ when born again of the Spirit.

 

[ScottA]

In Romans 7:5 "the flesh is the carnal nature that we are NOT in, Romans 8:9. Paul is not referring to our body that still must die and be resurrected at the Second Coming of Christ. It is our spirit and mind (our nature) that is the old man, "the flesh" that is crucified and is resurrected with Christ when born again of the Spirit.

There are indeed two different bodies. But no version of the flesh inherites the Kingdom of God. The flesh is still made up of the elements of this world which returns to the dust and is dissolved.

These bodies are merely the "skins" God gave us back in Genesis. The bodies Adam are Eve had before sin [and skin] are the bodies we shall again have. So fulfilling "the kingdom of God is within you."

 

[Hepzibah]

Interpreting Romans 7.

There have been two interpretations of Romans 7 which have dominated church history and which are sometimes known as the Primitive and the Post-Primitive. Augustine held to the Primitive in his early years, as did some of the Church Fathers and writers before Augustine, but changed his stance later. The reason that he changed was due to his heated discourses with Pelagius. There have been two interpretations widely held since Augustine, the original and the one from Augustine called the Post Primitive which did not exist before he adopted and popularised it. The third, was held by Pelagius and claims that sinlessness is possible in this life.

We must conclude that the man depicted in Romans 7 is a) a man who has only just come to Christ for forgiveness and has attempted previously to be righteous through obeying the law, (or as commonly known as an unbeliever) and the Primitive view, b) the normal state of a Christian which is held by Calvinists in the main and brought in by Augustine and c) the believer who has come to the crisis in his faith and inability to keep God’s law in the manner that he knows he must, whereby he will be delivered from the body of sin to the state where there is no more condemnation, the view which became widespread during the ‘Celtic period’, and Holiness Movement of the 19th C. There is no other viable interpretation of these texts.

The Primitive view and the one which is widely held today for example by many Arminians, is that Romans 7 describes the salvation experience and Paul is writing as an unregenerate soul. Augustine said: “It is understood that man here described who was never under grace” (Homilies). This is the view that Augustine held until Pelagius challenged him over his view that man is totally depraved.


“In his argument, Pelagius referred to the passage under consideration, saying that this was a palpable case in which, by the universal assent of the church, the state and character of the unregenerate man is described. He then asked, if approving the right, and hating the wrong, and 'delighting in the law of God' did not imply that there was something good even in such a man? Augustine could not deny the fact, the case being so palable, of the universal agreement of the church in the deduction that it was the unregenerate man referred to in the passage; nor did he perceive how, admitting the correctness of the universally received exposition, he could meet the argument of his opponent. Under such perplexity, Augustine denied the validity of his own and the universal, and adopted the few and before, unheard of, exposition, a most needless resort and a most calamitous one for the spiritual good of the church” (J Schmidz Romans 7)

Augustine did not accept Pelagius’ argument and agree with his interpretation. Pelagius was trying to show Augustine that Romans 7 was not to be understood as the so called Primitive view but the Apostolic view. Augustine realised his first view was untenable that Paul described the unregenerate but the second view was untenable for Augustine because it says that man can stop sinning.

Pelagius taught the Apostolic view which is that Paul is speaking about the Christian in Romans 7 but not in what should be his normal condition. Those who do not accept the view that it is a Christian speaking point to the fact that there is no mention of grace or of the work of the Holy Spirit in the chapter. But this is not because there is no Holy Spirit or grace. Far from it. The opposite is true actually. However, the person describing it is not aware of it. It seems as though God has deserted actually, as the person comes to an extreme point because God has convicted the man of his sinfulness. Paul is discussing experience here not doctrine. He came to a point of time when he saw himself as God saw him as he sought acceptance through the works of the law. And all Christians seek to do this unless they adopt Augustine’s position and excuse their sin. and until they come to the point whereby they admit their powerlessness.

The misunderstanding of the early writers teachings in saying that Romans 7 is the unregenerate person could be that some meant an unregenerate person as a believer who has not arrived at the sanctification experience, which was what Wesley meant by the 'Almost Christian' In the Bible, salvation sanctification and justification are all one event but describing the differing aspects of it. This could means that one is not really saved until they are entirely sanctified. Jesus came to save us from our sins and until this is done, then we are still in them and not saved even though we have been given 'The power to become the son's of God' as a possibility but not yet an actuality until the provision of sanctification through the cross, is appropriated by man and he is delivered from not just the penalty from sin but also the power and the presence.

This Apostolic view has been rejected by most of the church through the ages and the reason why Pelagius has had such bad press. By his dispute with Augustine and his understanding of Romans 7, he did not teach that the Christian could stop sinning on his own accord. Far from it. It needed the divine interaction of God to bring about the change or deliverance needed to get Paul from Romans7 to Romans 8.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

There are indeed two different bodies. But no version of the flesh inherites the Kingdom of God. The flesh is still made up of the elements of this world which returns to the dust and is dissolved.

These bodies are merely the "skins" God gave us back in Genesis. The bodies Adam are Eve had before sin [and skin] are the bodies we shall again have. So fulfilling "the kingdom of God is within you."

Right. This is why Jesus said, you must be born again of the Spirit. Unfortunately, there are many Christians who are powerless when it comes to sin. They are not born again, so are still in the flesh.

 

[ScottA]

Right. This is why Jesus said, you must be born again of the Spirit. Unfortunately, there are many Christians who are powerless when it comes to sin. They are not born again, so are still in the flesh.

Even the born again are in the flesh that will only return to the dust at its passing. Paul referred to this a "we who are alive and remain" (in the flesh and in the world). Hence, the struggle he also wrote about.

Meaning, the born again have a choice of walking in the spirit or in the flesh--which is not a loss of salvation, or an indication of not being saved--but is the same walk Jesus walked, except He is the only one to do it fully without sin. But this is what Paul meant, saying, "For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." Still, we too are called to "finish the race" to the best of our own ability--our ability, because salvation is already ours--whereas what we do in spirit, is Christ...Christ in us. This is the evidence of our being One with Christ in God, and is a great mystery and a glorious gift of God unto the Church. This is the gift of eternal life.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Even the born again are in the flesh that will only return to the dust at its passing. Paul referred to this a "we who are alive and remain" (in the flesh and in the world). Hence, the struggle he also wrote about.

Meaning, the born again have a choice of walking in the spirit or in the flesh--which is not a loss of salvation, or an indication of not being saved--but is the same walk Jesus walked, except He is the only one to do it fully without sin. But this is what Paul meant, saying, "For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." Still, we too are called to "finish the race" to the best of our own ability--our ability, because salvation is already our--whereas what we do in spirit, is Christ...Christ in us. This is the evidence of our being One with Christ in God, and is a great mystery and a glorious gift of God unto the Church. This is the gift of eternal life.

Jesus died so that we too could walk righteously and not commit 'sins unto death. He took our desire to commit "sins unto death" away. I have found that what John taught has been lost. But it is right there. He died so that we could be like Him. Up to the Day of Pentecost and the New Covenant, yes, Jesus was the only one who could walk sinlessly. But the Church put a period there. Jesus walked sinlessly because He was conceived with the "seed" of the Father. THAT is why we also need to be born again of the Spirit so that we cannot commit sins unto death that Adam sinned. Read this:

Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

See, Jesus was the first of many. This is why Jesus said, "you must be born again." He meant that our nature must be born of the SEED OF THE FATHER LIKE JESUS.

1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[ScottA]

Jesus died so that we too could walk righteously and not commit 'sins unto death. He took our desire to commit "sins unto death" away. I have found that what John taught has been lost. But it is right there. He died so that we could be like Him. Up to the Day of Pentecost and the New Covenant, yes, Jesus was the only one who could walk sinlessly. But the Church put a period there. Jesus walked sinlessly because He was conceived with the "seed" of the Father. THAT is why we also need to be born again of the Spirit so that we cannot commit sins unto death that Adam sinned. Read this:

Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

See, Jesus was the first of many. This is why Jesus said, "you must be born again." He meant that our nature must be born of the SEED OF THE FATHER LIKE JESUS.

1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Those passages all speak to the reality of the timelessness of us born again (that new creation), but not to the flesh and the worldly reality that the flesh does indeed return to the dust and is dissolved. Which is how one walking in the Spirit ought to begin to start thinking...but not to make a doctrine of those passages as if the flesh can inherit the Kingdom, against the greater counsel of all scripture.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Those passages all speak to the reality of the timelessness of us born again (that new creation), but not to the flesh and the worldly reality that the flesh does indeed return to the dust and is dissolved. Which is how one walking in the Spirit ought to begin to start thinking...but not to make a doctrine of those passages as is the flesh can inherit the Kingdom, against the greater counsel of all scripture.

That is the purpose of Romans 8:10 that follows 9.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Why are you so concerned about people believing that these sickly bodies will be on us in heaven. Everyone knows it must be changed to an immortal body. Do you believe that it is our old sin nature that was crucified and was resurrected free from sin? Nor do we have two natures as some have taught as a false doctrine.

 

[ScottA]

Why are you so concerned about people believing that these sickly bodies will be on us in heaven. Everyone knows it must be changed to an immortal body. Do you believe that it is our old sin nature that was crucified and was resurrected free from sin? Nor do we have two natures as some have taught as a false doctrine.

Indeed the old man of flesh is flesh and has one nature, while the new man of the spirit of God has no flesh as God has no flesh and His nature is spirit: Those who are of God are not flesh, but spirit.

So then, I might ask you: Why are you concerned about retaining the flesh at all, only to have it dissolved with fire? Did you think that Jesus was raised into heaven in the flesh that the flesh should inherit it--or that His prayer was "in heaven as on earth", that it should be fulfilled as such?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Indeed the old man of flesh is flesh and has one nature, while the new man of the spirit of God has no flesh as God has no flesh and His nature is spirit: Those who are of God are not flesh, but spirit.

So then, I might ask you: Why are you concerned about retaining the flesh at all, only to have it dissolved with fire? Did you think that Jesus was raised into heaven in the flesh that the flesh should inherit it--or that His prayer was "in heaven as on earth", that it should be fulfilled as such?

I'm not the one that keeps referring to the flesh of our bodies that must turn to dust. Like this.

Those passages all speak to the reality of the timelessness of us born again (that new creation), but not to the flesh and the worldly reality that the flesh does indeed return to the dust and is dissolved. Which is how one walking in the Spirit ought to begin to start thinking...but not to make a doctrine of those passages as if the flesh can inherit the Kingdom, against the greater counsel of all scripture.

 

[ScottA]

I'm not the one that keeps referring to the flesh of our bodies that must turn to dust. Like this.

It is because you have referred to the flesh as if you believe it is to be glorified or immortalized (not that you said it that way--but rather that you seem to support that commonly believed doctrine).

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It is because you have referred to the flesh as if you believe it is to be glorified or immortalized (not that you said it that way--but rather that you seem to support that commonly believed doctrine).

Both Paul and I say of "the flesh" that we are NOT IN THE FLESH, so you are not understanding a thing I've said, not even Paul. The flesh is called "the old man" and when we truly repent, the flesh is crucified. That means it is DEAD, not glorified nor immortalized in sin! The flesh is what the church calls "carnal nature," or "sin nature." What is resurrected is a brand new clean human nature inside of us, a new spirit and new soul without sin. That is here and now, and yes, the new spirit and soul Jesus creates in us is righteous, and He takes it through the long process of glorification and is immortal. The Church erroneously calls that process "sanctification." No, it is "glorification." Sanctification is past tense. It just means we are set apart for holiness when we were first washed and justified. See what Paul says,

1 Corinthians 6:11b "But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."

Paul doesn't even mention it in Romans 8:30, but he DOES glorified the proper name of the process of maturing all the fruit of the Spirit over a long period of time, making us truly into the image of Jesus.

Romans 8:29-30 "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified" That is now, not after we are dead as is falsely taught.

Here is another past tense reference of Paul's, this time to "the flesh."

Romans 7:5-6, "For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter."

That is not our death, but the death of the sin nature inside. Here is where Paul first teaches this:

Romans 6:5-7 "For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, ("body" is like a writer's body of works, or the Beatles whole catalog of works); it just means "whole," or "all unrighteousness,") that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

 

[ScottA]

Both Paul and I say of "the flesh" that we are NOT IN THE FLESH, so you are not understanding a thing I've said, not even Paul. The flesh is called "the old man" and when we truly repent, the flesh is crucified. That means it is DEAD, not glorified nor immortalized in sin! The flesh is what the church calls "carnal nature," or "sin nature." What is resurrected is a brand new clean human nature inside of us, a new spirit and new soul without sin. That is here and now, and yes, the new spirit and soul Jesus creates in us is righteous, and He takes it through the long process of glorification and is immortal. The Church erroneously calls that process "sanctification." No, it is "glorification." Sanctification is past tense. It just means we are set apart for holiness when we were first washed and justified. See what Paul says,

1 Corinthians 6:11b "But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."

Paul doesn't even mention it in Romans 8:30, but he DOES glorified the proper name of the process of maturing all the fruit of the Spirit over a long period of time, making us truly into the image of Jesus.

Romans 8:29-30 "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified" That is now, not after we are dead as is falsely taught.

Here is another past tense reference of Paul's, this time to "the flesh."

Romans 7:5-6, "For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter."

That is not our death, but the death of the sin nature inside. Here is where Paul first teaches this:

Romans 6:5-7 "For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, ("body" is like a writer's body of works, or the Beatles whole catalog of works); it just means "whole," or "all unrighteousness,") that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

I get all that, but are you advocating for some version of the flesh inheriting the Kingdom?

Otherwise, I have not been objecting to anything you have recently said. Perhaps it was your use of "sin unto death", perhaps I did not understand you correctly. There is sin leading to death, and also sin not leading to death. But it would be wrong to say that after being born again the old body of sin does not sin until it dies (unto death). For that body of sin is a body of sin by nature until it dies. Which is to say, the flesh is not transformed to become sinless when one is born again, but rather there is a new creation within that does not sin. Perhaps that is what we have been responding to in part.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I get all that, but are you advocating for some version of the flesh inheriting the Kingdom?

NO! It's DEAD. That includes the other name for the flesh, the "sin nature." When Jesus says He takes away our sin, it is the sin nature that He takes it away from. Many denominations believe the heresy that Jesus left it behind. FALSE.

Otherwise, I have not been objecting to anything you have recently said. Perhaps it was your use of "sin unto death", perhaps I did not understand you correctly. There is sin leading to death, and also sin not leading to death. But it would be wrong to say that after being born again the old body of sin does not sin until it dies (unto death). For that body of sin is a body of sin by nature until it dies. Which is to say, the flesh is not transformed to become sinless when one is born again, but rather there is a new creation within that does not sin. Perhaps that is what we have been responding to in part.

When it was alive it wanted to commit sins unto death. But not now IF we are born again of the Spirit. That is what 1 John 3:9 is talking about. ONLY sins unto death. We cannot commit them because Jesus took away all desire to break God's commandments. Also 1 John 3:24.

"IF" is the big problem in the church, because I was raised in church for 30 years, but my sin nature was still alive, though I was taught the Ten Commandments and made good choices. But I wasn't born again. We must be born again.

It wasn't until after my first divorce and I started a relationship with a married man who was so kind and the opposite of my ex, that I felt guilt, but was too weak after a rotten marriage, and knew I was in trouble with God. But I didn't want to leave him. So I stayed, and stayed. I finally prayed and confessed that I was too weak to stop committing this sin of adultery that leads to eternal death (that is a sin unto death - breaking one of the Ten Commandments or other laws like sorcery. Paul says the wages of this type of sin is death.) (Scott: There is another type of sin that does not lead to death that the Church does not teach the difference. Do you want to know? The Church is in error when it teaches that those type of sins also lead to death. No they don't as long as you keep walking in the Spirit you received when born again, IF INDEED SOMEONE IS BORN AGAIN.) It is 1 John 1:7 that shows that as long as we are walking in the Spirit those sins not unto death are cleansed. 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin."

Scott, what the Church has taught is "sin is sin." But in 1 John 1:7 Jesus blood is NOT cleansing sins unto death, ONLY sins not unto death, and also that are committed UNINTENTIONALLY. You are not aware of them to confess them. The Catholic Church's defining them as originally designated into two categories was what God wanted the Reformists to CONTINUE, but they didn't that caused many false teachings like:

1. All sin is willful.
2. There is no such thing as unintentional sin.
3. 1 John 1:9 is not the same as Acts 2:38 Repent....and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. In other words your nature is born again.
4. They use 1 John 1:9 to confess your willful sins, over and over and over and over again.
5. Jesus did not take your sin nature away.
6. You will always commit willful sins for the rest of your life until you die and receive a resurrected body. Then and only then do you stop sinning. (Demons know that if they can get you to be sinning and repenting all your life, you will be filthy when you die and they GOTTCHA!
1 John 1:9 cleanses you from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. That means you now have a clean nature (John 15:3). Like Acts 2:38, 1 John 1:9 is how to become a Christian used ONCE.

 

[ScottA]

NO! It's DEAD. That includes the other name for the flesh, the "sin nature." When Jesus says He takes away our sin, it is the sin nature that He takes it away from. Many denominations believe the heresy that Jesus left it behind. FALSE.




When it was alive it wanted to commit sins unto death. But not now IF we are born again of the Spirit. That is what 1 John 3:9 is talking about. ONLY sins unto death. We cannot commit them because Jesus took away all desire to break God's commandments. Also 1 John 3:24.

"IF" is the big problem in the church, because I was raised in church for 30 years, but my sin nature was still alive, though I was taught the Ten Commandments and made good choices. But I wasn't born again. We must be born again.

It wasn't until after my first divorce and I started a relationship with a married man who was so kind and the opposite of my ex, that I felt guilt, but was too weak after a rotten marriage, and knew I was in trouble with God. But I didn't want to leave him. So I stayed, and stayed. I finally prayed and confessed that I was too weak to stop committing this sin of adultery that leads to eternal death (that is a sin unto death - breaking one of the Ten Commandments or other laws like sorcery. Paul says the wages of this type of sin is death.) (Scott: There is another type of sin that does not lead to death that the Church does not teach the difference. Do you want to know? The Church is in error when it teaches that those type of sins also lead to death. No they don't as long as you keep walking in the Spirit you received when born again, IF INDEED SOMEONE IS BORN AGAIN.) It is 1 John 1:7 that shows that as long as we are walking in the Spirit those sins not unto death are cleansed. 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin."

Scott, what the Church has taught is "sin is sin." But in 1 John 1:7 Jesus blood is NOT cleansing sins unto death, ONLY sins not unto death, and also that are committed UNINTENTIONALLY. You are not aware of them to confess them. The Catholic Church's defining them as originally designated into two categories was what God wanted the Reformists to CONTINUE, but they didn't that caused many false teachings like:

1. All sin is willful.
2. There is no such thing as unintentional sin.
3. 1 John 1:9 is not the same as Acts 2:38 Repent....and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. In other words your nature is born again.
4. They use 1 John 1:9 to confess your willful sins, over and over and over and over again.
5. Jesus did not take your sin nature away.
6. You will always commit willful sins for the rest of your life until you die and receive a resurrected body. Then and only then do you stop sinning. (Demons know that if they can get you to be sinning and repenting all your life, you will be filthy when you die and they GOTTCHA!
1 John 1:9 cleanses you from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. That means you now have a clean nature (John 15:3). Like Acts 2:38, 1 John 1:9 is how to become a Christian used ONCE.

I get your rationale, but it seems to be only that, and yet not completely accurate.

Being born again, and the old man vs. the new, reveal the reality that each body--the flesh and the spirit--are as separate as heaven and earth. Meaning, as it is written, "what communion has light with darkness?" Which is to say, there is no real communion or sharing of sins whether unto death or not unto death, between the two, but rather war. Leaving "we who are alive and remain" (--alive in Christ in God, but remaining in the world and in the flesh until its passing) in a state of war--not a state of "peace, but a sword." Wherein, Paul instructed us to "discipline our body and bring it into subjection" of our new spirit body, just as Christ is the Head and His own body (the Church) is under subjection. Thus, Paul also spoke of his own struggle under such a spirit vs. flesh circumstance never before experienced until Pentecost.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I get your rationale, but it seems to be only that, and yet not completely accurate.

Being born again, and the old man vs. the new, reveal the reality that each body--the flesh and the spirit--are as separate as heaven and earth. Meaning, as it is written, "what communion has light with darkness?" Which is to say, there is no real communion or sharing of sins whether unto death or not unto death, between the two, but rather war. Leaving "we who are alive and remain" (--alive in Christ in God, but remaining in the world and in the flesh until its passing) in a state of war--not a state of "peace, but a sword." Wherein, Paul instructed us to "discipline our body and bring it into subjection" of our new spirit body, just as Christ is the Head and His own body (the Church) is under subjection. Thus, Paul also spoke of his own struggle under such a spirit vs. flesh circumstance never before experienced until Pentecost.

The old man was our sin nature. Our nature is made up of our spirit and soul, but not our body. The old man was crucified, and we were resurrected with a new spirit and soul. This is when the Spirit writes God's laws on our heart/soul. The new spirit is a new mind. 1 Cor. 2:16 says we receive the mind of Christ. The only thing left to die is our body. But sin did not reside in our body so we are completely clean with a new spirit and soul. The Church says otherwise, that sin resides in the body and that is why we will always sin until we die and receive new bodies. Pure heresy. I've heard preachers on the radio say this.

 

[ScottA]

The old man was our sin nature. Our nature is made up of our spirit and soul, but not our body. The old man was crucified, and we were resurrected with a new spirit and soul. This is when the Spirit writes God's laws on our heart/soul. The new spirit is a new mind. 1 Cor. 2:16 says we receive the mind of Christ. The only thing left to die is our body. But sin did not reside in our body so we are completely clean with a new spirit and soul. The Church says otherwise, that sin resides in the body and that is why we will always sin until we die and receive new bodies. Pure heresy. I've heard preachers on the radio say this.

Paul spoke and gave witness, saying, "I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans" 7:21-25

 

[Hepzibah]

Wow @1stCenturyLady Preach it!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Paul spoke and gave witness, saying, "I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans" 7:21-25

I know I've told you this before, but Romans 7 shows three different periods in world history about the Law of God.

From Adam to Moses sin was in the world, but if there is no law to judge sin by, there is no sin. That is verse 9, and it also shows when Moses received the Law. Note Paul still uses the pronoun "I" though it was 4,000 years ago, and 1,500 years ago. Do you really think Paul was there? Don't let personal pronouns throw you off from the context. Romans 7:14-25 that you were referring to some of the verses at the end was about those under the Law of Moses, which we are not under, because we are not in the flesh, so not under the Law. Only verses 5-6 is us who are born again, not 14-25 that people refer to all the time, because they are not taught the truth that can set us free. John 8:32-36 below

Scott, in Romans 7 verses 5-6 are the only verses that you should be relating to. I know I do since 1977. Note the flesh is past tense. " For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Note also that Paul uses the pronoun "me" in Romans 8:2, "2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death." Scott, this verse sets us free from Romans 7:14-25. Please stop referring to those verses as if you are a slave to sin, and not born again, or if you're only relating to 7:14-25 and not to 8:2 then you must become born again and filled with the Holy Spirit of Christ so you are dead to the flesh. If you are still not convinced, read Romans 8:9 "But you are NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God indwell us. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

John 8:32, 34-36
32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed."

Free from what? SIN!