Who goes back with Jesus in the pre-tribulation rapture?

[PeterAndroz]

The bible has one author so I don't accept limits like that.

They are not limits since not everything in the Bible applies to you.
eg that same 'Author' required sacrifice of animals so why do we not do that today?
..
Paul does not teach ""He returns to the Earth and that's where the church will be.""
Paul teaches we will be in Heavenly places and not on earth.
..

 

[PeterAndroz]

They are ruled over according to Rev 2 and 19, and a short time after that rule ends they will go to the GWTJ.

Yes, that makes sense

 

[ewq1938]

They are not limits since not everything in the Bible applies to you.
eg that same 'Author' required sacrifice of animals so why do we not do that today?

God no longer requires them.

..
Paul does not teach ""He returns to the Earth and that's where the church will be.""
Paul teaches we will be in Heavenly places and not on earth.
..

He taught that while he was alive and applied it to that time period not the future, so it was not literal or related to the rapture etc.

Again, no scripture places Christ in heaven ever again after the second coming. No one is ever said to go to heaven after the second coming. No one but the Father is ever written to leave heaven after the second coming.

The rapture is designed to find and bring upwards all the surviving saved Christians all around the world and bring them all to one place, the clouds and this is where Jesus will be for a brief time before he continues his descent to the Earth during the Millennium and for all eternity.

 

[PeterAndroz]

God no longer requires them.




He taught that while he was alive and applied it to that time period not the future, so it was not literal or related to the rapture etc.

Again, no scripture places Christ in heaven ever again after the second coming. No one is ever said to go to heaven after the second coming. No one but the Father is ever written to leave heaven after the second coming.

The rapture is designed to find and bring upwards all the surviving saved Christians all around the world and bring them all to one place, the clouds and this is where Jesus will be for a brief time before he continues his descent to the Earth during the Millennium and for all eternity.

Animal sacrifices <<""God no longer requires them""
Yes, not everything in the Bible applies to everyone
..
"""The rapture is designed to find and bring upwards all the surviving saved Christians all around the world.......clouds..."""
Who are saved & sealed by the Gal 1:11-12 Gospel taught uniquely to Paul by Christ which Paul himself had to Gal 2:2 teach the 12.
..
""""before he continues his descent to the Earth during the Millennium"""
Paul verses please that teach the cloud saints will also be there instead of Heavenly places
I can't find any.
..
""and for all eternity""
Yes, Rev 21 appears to teach everybody who was ever saved will be there.

 

[David in NJ]

The dead NOT in Christ would then go to the GWT.

The dead who are NOT in Christ go to the GWT after the 1,000 years.

Based on God's Scripture, the ALIVE not taken into the 1 Thess 4:17 clouds go where? = Survivors remain = Zechariah chapter 14

 

[CrowCross]

Apart from misrepresenting the book of Revelation, what other Scripture do you have the teaches a rapture of the church followed by a prolonged tribulation period?

So, I'm suppose to think I've misprepresented Revelation because you think I have?

 

[David in NJ]

So, I'm suppose to think I've misprepresented Revelation because you think I have?

What is the potential danger of "misrepresenting Revelation" ???

 

[WPM]

So, I'm suppose to think I've misprepresented Revelation because you think I have?

Where is your corroboration for your opinion of Revelation?

 

[CrowCross]

That seems a bit forced. While Satan was banished from heaven, before creation,

Where does the bible say Satan was banished from heaven BEFORE creation?

 

[CrowCross]

The Bible does NOT support "pre-tribulation rapture". Christ will come on the Last Day at the Last Trump "after the tribulation". Period. It is because you got the timing of 1,000 year millennial and 7 years "tribulation" period all wrong.

I am far from "hung up" on the 1,000 year reign....the bible presents it as literal... It is YOU who changes it to a strictly symbolic meaning.
If It's symbolic you need to explain how the bible teaches that.

 

[CrowCross]

What is the potential danger of "misrepresenting Revelation" ???

People like you stay asleep.

 

[CrowCross]

Where is your corroboration for your opinion of Revelation?

Have you not been reading mine and others post?

 

[David in NJ]

People like

---

stay asleep.

Correct

Matthew 25:1-13

 

[WPM]

Where does the bible say Satan was banished from heaven BEFORE creation?

Isaiah 14 12-17 states, “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (helel or shining one), son of the morning (dawn)! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?”

Ezekiel 28:12-19: “Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.”

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

 

[WPM]

Have you not been reading mine and others post?

I have. You present no corroboration for your opinion of Revelation. Where is it? That is because Pretribs have nothing but avoidance and ad hominem.

 

[CrowCross]

Correct

Matthew 25:1-13

Why did you not post the verse with you're commentary???????

 

[WPM]

I am far from "hung up" on the 1,000 year reign....the bible presents it as literal... It is YOU who changes it to a strictly symbolic meaning.
If It's symbolic you need to explain how the bible teaches that.

You are not a literalist. You cherry pick like all Premils.

Re the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12, is that sixty minutes?

 

[CrowCross]

You are not a literalist. You cherry pick like all Premils.

I interpret the bible as literal unless you can't.
For example the stars can't fall to earth. This means the stars in this instance are not literal stars.

Re the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12, is that sixty minutes?

Some times an hour is literal. Sometimes an hour means only a brief time or an appointed season.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I am far from "hung up" on the 1,000 year reign

Oh, absolutely! And I'm the king of England. LOL. The amount of effort you've spent defending that literal 1,000-year reign says otherwise.

...the bible presents it as literal...

Sure—says those who read the text only at the surface level and then confuse literalism with sound biblical interpretation. Apparently, spiritual discernment is optional.

It is YOU who changes it to a strictly symbolic meaning.

Because I allow Scripture to interpret Scripture rather than imposing a strictly literalistic framework upon the text. The symbolic interpretation is not something I am arbitrarily “changing” it into; it is derived from the biblical context, imagery, and the way Scripture itself uses and interprets such symbols. It is something you clearly lacks!

If It's symbolic you need to explain how the bible teaches that.

I have explained it—multiple times—in my other posts while responding to and refuting your position. Do you not remember already? LOL. At this point, it seems less like a lack of explanation and more like you simply don't want to accept the biblical evidence because it contradicts your position.

 

[David in NJ]

Why did you not post the verse with you're commentary???????

Because you are the one sleeping with your false-comfort pillow that says: pre-trib rapture