Who goes back with Jesus in the pre-tribulation rapture?

[Truth7t7]

All those who truly believe in Jesus and baptized by the Holy Spirit ( born again). I'd like to think all 2.7 billion will go but there is evidence of many left behind. A relationship with Jesus means you are doing/practicing what He commands: Love God, love your neighbor- not always easy to do, but it is a practice. If when you became a Christian, there were no inner or outer changes and you did not immerse yourself in scriptures, find a church to learn and grow, then how deep is your love really? By their fruit, you will know them and we see many who are more immersed in themselves, the worldly things, money. We live in the world but are aliens. We know it's temporary. We pray often.
So no, not all who claim will go. But Christ is the Author of our faith and so if you are one of His sheep eventually you'll make it, but maybe not at the Rapture.
Personally I think when every eye sees Him, is when a remnant Jewish population will be converted and that's after the Rapture. And so they will be put through the fire along with the rest and tested.
Here is the logical reasoning behind people being left behind.
Since the Church once raptured, receive eternal spiritual bodies capable of existing in both spiritual and physical realms, won't be able to procreate, who will then procreate in the Millennial Kingdom?
In Isaiah 11:8 it says nursing infants will play near cobras! So mortals will coexist and live on earth, while we will be priests over them. Populations of those who survived the GT will grow. In Dan. 12, the Bible claims, "blessed are those who make it to day 1335" (the end of the GT and beginning of the Millennial Kingdom).

Your Claim Is "False"

There won't be a pre-trib rapture, there won't be a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth after Jesus returns, this is a Man Made "Fairy Tale"

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[CrowCross]

Why was Satan bound for a thousand (not one thousand) years? Scripture tells us "that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season." So prior to being bound Satan had power to deceive the nations (Gentiles), and through being bound he lost that power he held over the nations, keeping them in fear of death and in darkness from unbelief. What broke that power? Again Scripture tells us, "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage." (Heb 2:14-15)

If Satan has not been bound through the life, death and resurrection of Christ, how have/are Gentiles throughout the nations of the world been delivered, and being delivered from fear of death when they are again through belief in Christ?

The FACT that the gospel of the Kingdom of God is being proclaimed unto all the nations of the world, and Gentiles are turning from fear of death and darkness in unbelief to everlasting life and faith PROVES that Christ has bound this spiritual entity named Satan. That's how Christ can assure us the church will build the Kingdom of God as the Gospel is proclaimed, for Christ says; "I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Mt 16:18)

What use then is Eph 6 for us?

It tells us who we're fighting against and how to defend against it. If Satan is locked up like you claim Satan currently is during this so-called symbolic 1000 year...then why do we have a shield to quench his fiery darts?

 

[Truth7t7]

who will then procreate in the Millennial Kingdom?
In Isaiah 11:8 it says nursing infants will play near cobras! So mortals will coexist and live on earth, while we will be priests over them. Populations of those who survived the GT will grow. In Dan. 12, the Bible claims, "blessed are those who make it to day 1335" (the end of the GT and beginning of the Millennial Kingdom).

Your Claim In Bold Red Above Is "False", Isaiah 11:8 represents (The Eternal Kingdom) in the New Heaven and Earth, Not A Mortal Kingdom On This Earth

Isaiah Chapters 11 & 65 Is The Eternal Kingdom In The New Heaven And Earth, Not A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth​

Isaiah Chapters 11 & 65 Is The Very Same Place, The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth, Don't Be Deceived By Claims This Represents A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth

Same Wolf & Lamb Together, And Lion Eating Straw Like The Bullock/Ox, In The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth

(For, Behold, I Create New Heavens And A New Earth)

Isaiah 65:17-18 & 25KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

Isaiah 11:6-8KJV
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

 

[CrowCross]

That verse is not speaking of how Satan was once good until he wasn't. Again, the lamentation is directed to a MAN, not the spirit of evil of this world called Satan.



I gave you the answer, it is here: Genesis 3:1 (KJV) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

What does "subtle" mean to you?

Why was the serpent, we've come to understand is a metaphor for Satan "more subtil than any beast of the field"? Why is this created being given to be more subtil which means to be more cunning and crafty in a bad way, than any of the beasts God created? Knowing the serpent was cunning and crafty in a bad way, why did God allow him to tempt the woman He had created without the knowledge of good or evil?

Was it created in a bad way or was it used in a bad way?
An elephant could be said to be powerful.....the power of an elephant can be used for good or bad. The power of an elephant could be used to clear a field or used to trample a village.

 

[amigo de christo]

Satan isn't bound....and we haven't reached the 1,000 year reign of Christ yet where he will be bound.

i meant HE IS BOUND IN THE THOUSAND years . Notice what i wrote .
IF , like some do say that we are in the thousand years , WHO IS DOING ALL THIS MASSIVE INCREDIBLE
DECEVING OF the nations and of even a wh ole whole whole LOTTA christendom .
WHY its the devil of course , his false and false prohets of course and WHO ya t hink
that AI image speaking digital system is and has been prepared for .........
THE BEAST , who has not YET , NOR has his prophet yet been cast into that lake of fire .
In fact we got us a well favored HARLOT at work that is totally clowning and decieving
this world , its false religoins and a whole boatload of even christendom .
The all inclusive god has not yet been bound in the bottomless pit .
The all inclusive god IS SATAN and the ecumeincal interfaith IS OF HIS HARLOT . A FACT that so many
DO NOT want to beleive , BUT IS TRUE .
For many now are in love with a lie they THINK is LOVE and IS OF GOD , with a lie
they THINK will bring peace on earth , BUT ONLY IS OF ANTI CHRIST who prepares this people
unto their own destruction . SO , yoo hoo its me again warning , YOU GET EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD
as far as possible from anything of the judge not all inclusive ecumeincal movment and its intefaith interrelgiious anti christ dialgoue .

 

[CrowCross]

He is assuming Satan was created before God created all things in the heavens, the earth and the sea in six days. He assumes what he cannot biblically prove.

God didn't create Satan....The Cherub BECAME Satan.
When God created Adam God didn't create Adam as a fallen being....Adam became a fallen being.

 

[amigo de christo]

The Number 3 is Basic Bible Gospel: 1 + 1 + 1 = 3

One plus one plus one is three and so is two plus two is four .
THIS PEOPLE has about ZERO idea david of what is and what is going on my friend .
And numbers cannot save them . You gonna have to speak plainly to them .
Whether or not you yet realize what i am saying is true or not
MANY HERE DO NOT EVEN KEEP the basic teachings OF JESUS anymore .
How on earth am i gonna teach or show them anything spiritual
IF THEY CANNOT even hear the basic truth david .
This generation has about zero to no idea what the heck infiltrated christendom
and they have zero idea
this enity is now being seen as GOD to this people and as his love and as his peace plan .
AND IT AINT GOD david . IT THE DEVIL and I MEAN THAT WITH ALL MY BEING .
This people must be returned to the basics . And now .

 

[CrowCross]

I am a Christian Gentile, an inhabitant of the nations of the world that Satan had power to deceive by keeping me in fear over death. That power Satan had held me in was broken when I was born again. Because, since I have been born again the bondage to fear of death, and power of sin has been done away through the power of Christ's life, death and resurrection.

Since Satan is spirit of this world (Eph 2:2), perhaps it would be helpful to point out that it is Satan's POWER that has been bound, because a spirit cannot be literally bound in a pit by a chain.

The fact that I and every Gentile throughout the whole world who has been delivered from the power of fear of death and darkness of sin the moment we were born again gives us blessed assurance that Christ has defeated this spiritual foe through binding his power over death and sin. If the power of Satan has not yet been bound by the life, death and resurrection of Christ, then Gentiles, like me would not be set free from bondage to fear of death by partaking of the resurrection life of Christ when I was born again. I would still be destined to the second death.

A lot of that is true and factual....but Satan still attacks Christians.

 

[CrowCross]

According to the time the description was relevant. Satan was a murderer from the beginning of Creation. He had already fallen then.

The beginning of creation refers to a period of time. It doesn't necessarily mean the exact moment Jesus created the earth. Jesus continued creating for 6 days.

 

[Truth7t7]

What use then is Eph 6 for us?

It tells us who we're fighting against and how to defend against it. If Satan is locked up like you claim Satan currently is during this so-called symbolic 1000 year...then why do we have a shield to quench his fiery darts?

Satan Is Currently Bound For 1,000 Years Explained?​

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[amigo de christo]

A lot of that is true and factual....but Satan still attacks Christians.

Depends on what one means by christain . c ause from what i can clearly see
satan sure has a lot of those who cliam to be christain
under the sway of his power and of what he now calls GOD , c alls love and calls unity for peace .
But oh yes the true christains who by faith in Christ do resist him , OH HE gonna cause perseuctions
to come their way. and reader DO beware and be alert .
Cause many of those who already cast us out and soon will be co helpers to our round up ,
OH THEY GONNA think they christain , they gonna beleive the solution of anti christ for peace
and they gonna think the true sheep who did n ot conform to the all inclusive god
Are haters and dangerous and even potential terrorists . JUST letting you know
WHAT the sold out ecumeincal churches who heed this inclusiv e god
ARE doing and preparing their own with all the false relgions , TO COME AGAINST the true sheep in the time to come .
The greatest hour of tribulation IS NOT behind us , BUDDY ITS ABOUT TO SLAM DOWN against the SAINTS OF GOD and OF CHRIST .

 

[CrowCross]

All those who truly believe in Jesus and baptized by the Holy Spirit ( born again). I'd like to think all 2.7 billion will go but there is evidence of many left behind. A relationship with Jesus means you are doing/practicing what He commands: Love God, love your neighbor- not always easy to do, but it is a practice. If when you became a Christian, there were no inner or outer changes and you did not immerse yourself in scriptures, find a church to learn and grow, then how deep is your love really? By their fruit, you will know them and we see many who are more immersed in themselves, the worldly things, money. We live in the world but are aliens. We know it's temporary. We pray often.
So no, not all who claim will go. But Christ is the Author of our faith and so if you are one of His sheep eventually you'll make it, but maybe not at the Rapture.
Personally I think when every eye sees Him, is when a remnant Jewish population will be converted and that's after the Rapture. And so they will be put through the fire along with the rest and tested.
Here is the logical reasoning behind people being left behind.
Since the Church once raptured, receive eternal spiritual bodies capable of existing in both spiritual and physical realms, won't be able to procreate, who will then procreate in the Millennial Kingdom?
In Isaiah 11:8 it says nursing infants will play near cobras! So mortals will coexist and live on earth, while we will be priests over them. Populations of those who survived the GT will grow. In Dan. 12, the Bible claims, "blessed are those who make it to day 1335" (the end of the GT and beginning of the Millennial Kingdom).

Thanks for the reply.

The reason i asked the question is because some say not all truly born again believers will be raptured. i was looking for their reasons for this belief. I appreciate you presenting your belief. Your belief seems to be if I'm reading you correctly is that if you are not producing fruit you will be left behind.
I'm not arguing if you're right or wrong, but is there any biblical support for that belief?

As for repopulating the earth during the Millennial Kingdom I see people making it through the tribulation.
These people may be those left behind as some think or they may be those that become christians during the tribulation.
As to whether those taken in the rapture will be able to procreate during the Millennial Kingdom is something I have never thought of and don't have a dogmatic answer for.

 

[WPM]

The beginning of creation refers to a period of time. It doesn't necessarily mean the exact moment Jesus created the earth. Jesus continued creating for 6 days.

Isaiah 14:12-17 continues, “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning [Heb. hêylêl bênor shachar shining one (or the morning star) son of the dawn]! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?”

The angels of God are described as the morning stars in ” Job 38:7. They are shown to have been there at “the foundations of the earth.” So, the devil being described as hêylêl bênor shachar or the shining one, or the morning star, son of the dawn, makes sense.

• The king of Babylon never fell from heaven. No human did. To argue that is ridiculous. Only Satan and his angels are depicted as experiencing that in Scripture (Isaiah 14:12 and Ezekiel 28:16). Several New Testament passages also apply that to the devil (Luke 10:17, 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 1:6 and Revelation 12:1-4).
• The king of Babylon was definitely not "Lucifer," “the shining one,” “the bright one,” “the light-bearer,” “the morning star,” or “son of the dawn.” These are terms set aside for the invisible angelic realm. The supernatural realm is often likened to the celestial realm. This can only refer to an angel.
• Why would God attribute such high, bright, lofty, supernatural and celestial attributes to a wicked rebellious heathen king who was full of darkness from his birth to his grave? Only Satan could fulfil this, as at one stage he did shine in the heavenly court before he fell.
• The king of Babylon never tried to “ascend into heaven,” to dethrone God or “exalt his throne above the stars of God.”
• Satan is the one who is the god of this world. He is the one with a global kingdom. He is the one who ruled the nations with his deceit before Christ came. He alone “didst weaken the nations.” Only he “made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof”? The king of Babylon only ruled over Babylon. Hello!

The king of Babylon is rebuked for his pride and rebellion at the beginning. Elect angels are not fallen angels.

Ezekiel 28:12-19: “Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.”

Ezekiel was not just speaking to the king of Tyrus but to the spiritual power that controlled him and worked through him – Satan. The king of Tyrus was simply a wicked instrument that the devil used. By addressing the human king and his spiritual ruler simultaneously, Ezekiel shows how Satan's pride and fall are mirrored in the king's actions and ultimate destruction.

• First of all, the king of Tyrus was still alive here when this was being spoken.
• Second, the king of Tyrus was definitely not in the Garden of Eden. That would have made him thousands of years old, which is ridiculous.
• Thirdly, the king of Tyrus was not an anointed guardian cherub. He was a human being. Cherubs are angelic creatures.
• Fifthly, the king of Tyrus was not born blameless or sinless. He was born with original sin. He was born depraved.
• Sixthly, the king of Tyrus was not in the mountain of God, a reference to the direct presence of God in heaven, neither was he on Mount Horeb, the earthly mountain of God with Moses.
• Seventhly, there is nowhere the king of Tyrus corrupted the wisdom he had been given by God in the splendour of God’s presence. He was always an out and out heathen king.
• Eighthly, the king of Tyrus was not cast out of God’s holy mount to the ground.

We all know: Satan works through the wicked to accomplish his purposes. These 2 kings were simply surrogates who Satan used. They were his evil ambassadors. Satan worked through them. He spoke through them. He is still doing the same today.

Jude 1:6: “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”

2 Peter 2:4 closely correlates: “God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Gr. tartaroo], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.”

This is talking about angels that sinned at the beginning and therefore fell. Adam and Eve were not angels. They are not held in "everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.” God redeemed them. He made an atoning sacrifice for them in the Garden and gave them a righteous covering. Who else is this speaking about than Satan and his demons?

Revelation 12:1-4 shows Satan and his devils being eternally evicted from heaven. Interestingly the demonic angels are depicted as “stars.” It reads: “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon ... And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth.”

In Revelation 12:4, 1/3 of the angels sided with Satan in his rebellion. They sided with him when he fell, and are part of the kingdom of darkness.

 

[rebuilder 454]

What use then is Eph 6 for us?

It tells us who we're fighting against and how to defend against it. If Satan is locked up like you claim Satan currently is during this so-called symbolic 1000 year...then why do we have a shield to quench his fiery darts?

You are dealing with amil
That is a totally different Bible.

Nothing at all will make sense in an end time discussion.
The more read their grand canyon leaps, the more I am convinced they are only here to mess with us.

 

[rwb]

What use then is Eph 6 for us?

It tells us who we're fighting against and how to defend against it. If Satan is locked up like you claim Satan currently is during this so-called symbolic 1000 year...then why do we have a shield to quench his fiery darts?

We need to be clothed in the full armour of God to be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. We can only do this in/through the Spirit of Christ in us. As I said, the enemy works through the spirit in man. But greater is HE that is in us than he that is in this world.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Eph 6:10 ¶ Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

 

[rwb]

What does "subtle" mean to you?

I gave you the biblical meaning according to the Hebrew language.

Subtil - H6175

עָרוּם ʻârûwm, aw-room' - ; cunning (usually in a bad sense):—crafty, prudent, subtil

Derived from H6191 Strong's Hebrew Concordance -

עָרַם ʻâram, aw-ram' - a primitive root; properly, to be (or make) bare; but used only in the derivative sense (through the idea perhaps of smoothness) to be cunning (usually in a bad sense):—× very, beware, take crafty (counsel), be prudent, deal subtilly.

Genesis 3:1 (KJVSL) Now the serpent נָחָשׁ was הָיָה more subtil עָרוּם than any beast חַי of the field שָׂדֶה which the LORD יְהֹוָה God אֱלֹהִים had made עָשָׂה. And he said אָמַר unto the woman אִשָּׁה, Yea אַף, hath God אֱלֹהִים said אָמַר, Ye shall not eat אָכַל of every tree עֵץ of the garden גַּן?

The implication is the serpent was made by God more cunning and crafty in a bad sense.

 

[CrowCross]

Satan Is Currently Bound For 1,000 Years Explained?​

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

Currently the nations have been deceived and are battling.
We have Iran for example deceived and fighting with the intent to bring back the 12th Imam.
We have the Kabalist...talmud Jews...fighting to rebuild the temple.
We have the christian Zionist fighting and thinking they can make the rapture occur.
Rev 13 is all about deception and war and precedes Rev 20 in the biblical timeline.

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

The so called non-literal binding of Satan for a 1000 years hasn't occurred yet as what is described in the book of Revelations hasn't happened yet.

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

According to scripture Jesus comes back then starts the literal 1,000 year reign.
Why is Rev 20 not placed before Rev 6?

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

That's not quite right...if Satan was bound in Gen 3 as his punishment Evil would still exist as that is what the prodigy of Adams new nature is.
In the millennial reign when Satan is bound man can only blame their evil nature on themselves.

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

In the opening of this post I showed some of the flaws with that concept. In previous post I've shown other flaws.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

No, the bible places the millennial reign after those that event.

 

[rwb]

God didn't create Satan....The Cherub BECAME Satan.
When God created Adam God didn't create Adam as a fallen being....Adam became a fallen being.

Nowhere in Scripture can you prove Satan was created good and became the evil spirit called Satan.

Adam and Eve, unlike the serpent were created in the likeness and image of God, having no knowledge of good or evil. They knew no evil until the serpent through evil tempted the woman. That's how man became of the same fallen/evil nature as the beguiling serpent, bringing sin and death through sin into creation.

 

[rwb]

A lot of that is true and factual....but Satan still attacks Christians.

Yes, he most certainly does! That's why it is so important to be born again of the Spirit of Christ.

 

[CrowCross]

Depends on what one means by christain . c ause from what i can clearly see
satan sure has a lot of those who cliam to be christain
under the sway of his power and of what he now calls GOD , c alls love and calls unity for peace .
But oh yes the true christains who by faith in Christ do resist him , OH HE gonna cause perseuctions
to come their way. and reader DO beware and be alert .
Cause many of those who already cast us out and soon will be co helpers to our round up ,
OH THEY GONNA think they christain , they gonna beleive the solution of anti christ for peace
and they gonna think the true sheep who did n ot conform to the all inclusive god
Are haters and dangerous and even potential terrorists . JUST letting you know
WHAT the sold out ecumeincal churches who heed this inclusiv e god
ARE doing and preparing their own with all the false relgions , TO COME AGAINST the true sheep in the time to come .
The greatest hour of tribulation IS NOT behind us , BUDDY ITS ABOUT TO SLAM DOWN against the SAINTS OF GOD and OF CHRIST .

I think God is going to expose the falseness that has crept into the church over the years.