Who goes back with Jesus in the pre-tribulation rapture?

[WPM]

The fact is the term Church isn't used after chapter 4 until chapter 22.
It's mentioned 17 times before that. But, that means nothing to you. You want to be part of the 1/4 of the population killed...or better yet if you survive you want to be there to hear about the 1/4 of the population that's killed....when the pale green horse whose rider is name Death....and Hades followed close behind comes on the scene.

So where is the rapture of the Church in Rev?

 

[WPM]

The bride will not go through the 7 year tribulation...She will be removed. Yes, the bride will experience tribulation prior to dying or being raptured...but it's not the tribulation mentioned in Matt 24:21...For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be.
The bride will escape this judgement as her groom has already paid the price for this judgement.

If I read you correctly it sounds like you're saying not all christians are taken in the rapture. Is that what you're saying.

Where does it say that in the Bible?

 

[WPM]

Yikes a tough guy...you're from Jersey and can handle it.....

Anyone who believes what Scripture says is mocked by you and your escapism theology. You cannot even show us clear Scripture to support your teaching - neither can any Pretribber. That is because you have nothing. Avoidance is the Pretrib MO. That is why the doctrine is crumbling. The objective Bible students sees it is an extra-biblical theory.

 

[David in NJ]

Yikes a tough guy...you're from Jersey and can handle it.....

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be.....
In fact so bad....If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

The tribulation you speak of is nothing compared to what is coming to the world.
The good news...the bride is removed.

Define the Tribulation that JESUS Said we will face = from Scripture

 

[amigo de christo]

Some have great faith and some have weak faith. We are instructed to come alongside and encourage those who have weak faith and/or maybe have backside lost their way. Devastating events happen to test our faith: illness, death of a loved one, loss of job, etc. So at times our faith wavers and people get angry at God. But Christ is the Author and goes and gets that one sheep that strayed and brings them back to the fold. HE IS FAITHFUL and my confidence is in His promise, not my abilities. It reminds.me of the movie Signs with Mel Gibson who played an angry ex- priest who lost his faith after his wife died. Fictional alien movie but through it all, God was with him and had a plan and brought him through.
My Dad got on his knees when he was ten years old and prayed for his father's life who had TB ( in 1941, there was no cure). God said no and so thid little boy stopped believing, held a grudge for 70 years. He professed to be an atheist. I'd say he lost his faith. But in his 80's, weak, sickly, he came back, got on his knees again and prayed. It's funny but all through his life he lived by and practiced Biblical principals. He taught us too. With seven praying sisters, it was difficult for him not to know how to live this way. He just reasoned that these principals, like the golden rule evolved from society.
I told him no it didn't. I wrote a 30 page argument against the TOE, which he believed. It all worked out eventually.
.

just a friendly reminder but i would not get my cues from hollywood concerning God or the faith .
I have a far better idea . Lets fall in love with the words in said bible again . Watch how
quickly they refresh one .

 

[rwb]

You ramble. Sorry. A bit long winded and never really say anything. Post verse out of context often with no commentary on how they relate...sorry dude.

The fact is the term Church isn't used after chapter 4 until chapter 22.
It's mentioned 17 times before that. But, that means nothing to you. You want to be part of the 1/4 of the population killed...or better yet if you survive you want to be there to hear about the 1/4 of the population that's killed....when the pale green horse whose rider is name Death....and Hades followed close behind comes on the scene.

I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to prove with this statement, "The fact is the term Church isn't used after chapter 4 until chapter 22."?

You need to remember the Revelation of Jesus Christ (the whole), from instructions " which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:", were written explicitly to be sent to the churches on earth. They were not limited to only the seven churches because John says they bare record of the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ, with blessings for he that reads, and they that hear the words of this prophecy. The letters were circulated throughout the churches then, and through the Bible are still be circulated to all Christian churches since then.

Why would the term Church need to be continually repeated in the Revelation, because those who understand the letters are directed to ALL Christians (the church on earth) have no need of being told again and again the message of the Revelation is to those alive in the past, present and future, IOW ALL who claim the name of Christ.

It's foolish to deny the church (faithful Christians) are ordained to suffer "great tribulation" as long as the gospel of the Kingdom of God is being preached unto all the nations of the world for a witness unto all nations, then the END shall come, not another one thousand years of more time.

Matthew 24:14 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:21 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[CrowCross]

So where is the rapture of the Church in Rev?

Does it have to be there?

 

[amigo de christo]

Define the Tribulation that JESUS Said we will face = from Scripture

The tribulations of men against the sheep . That be what we must face and endure .
The t ribulation of the beast against the saints , that is what we must f ace and endure .
THE WRATH OF GOD , NOW that will come against the beast and against the ungodly
who had served it . Pretty simple if ya ask me .
EVEN paul knew the tribulations of men against us
was the righteous judg ment of God by which we suffer for THE KINGDOM .
But that WE shall recieve rest ON JESUS DAY as they then recieve TRIBULATION by GOD and THE LAMB against them .
A ONE TIME EVENT if anyone would bother reading the bible .
In fact JESUS was REAL clear about this . The false always persecuted the true prophets .
An d the false always loved to hear from the false well favored prophets who always did prophesy the smooth things
and promises of PEACE to them .
The ungodly WILL and DO LIE . and th ose who sit under them WILL surely love that lie .
LIKE THIS . THE wicked does not repent of his evil ways , FOR YE HAVE PROMISED THEM LIFE .
IF YOU had actually preached MY WORDS , they had REPENTED . Aint nothing new under that ol sun dav id .
ITS JUST GETTING far worse in the late and last hours is all . A delusion has come
to gather them . JUST as it did to king ahab .
King ahab , HIS PROPHETS prophesied GO UP and YE SHALL have THE VICTORY .
LITTLE did he know that GOD had sent a lying spirit amongst them prophets
and that they would CONVINCE HIM to GO UP and .....................WELL IT WOULD BE HIS END .
JUST Like it will be the end of all who joined hands with this eucmincal harlot
whose prophets prosphey OF peace and tell the peoples to JOIN hands with THE LIE OF INTERRELIGOIUS DIALGOUE .
OH they will not be g etting the very peace n safety THEY THOUGHT they would , NOT ON JESUS DAY THEY WONT . sudden
destruction . A lying spirit HAS DARN SURE been sent
and sent to the false religoins as well as to chrisetendom . AND THEIR PROPHETS NOW all prophesy the same LIE .
WE ARE ONE , WE ALL SERVE THE SAME GOD , come and join us and we shall have PEACE n safety .
ONLY , yoo hoo , yeah its me ag ain , HOW ON EARTH is this peace plan of GOD when it DENIED HIS CHRIST
and thus HOW ON EARTH are they gonna really recieve this peace n safety
AND NOT RATHER SUDDEN: DESTRUCTION BY THE GOD AND HIS CHRIST their peace and thier LOVE DENIED .
ITS ALL A DELUSION david and a STRONG ONE IT IS .

 

[CrowCross]

Where does it say that in the Bible?

Connect the dots.

Revelation is about judgement for the evil in the world and bringing the Jews to the true messiah.

Christians.....bride of Christ...know the true messiah.
Christians have their "judgement" payed for by the blood of Christ.

 

[CrowCross]

Anyone who believes what Scripture says is mocked by you and your escapism theology. You cannot even show us clear Scripture to support your teaching - neither can any Pretribber. That is because you have nothing. Avoidance is the Pretrib MO. That is why the doctrine is crumbling. The objective Bible students sees it is an extra-biblical theory.

LOL.....Oh, that's right you've proven a post trib rapture. Chuckle.

 

[CrowCross]

Define the Tribulation that JESUS Said we will face = from Scripture

Scripture defines two types of tribulation.
Normal life tribulation.....and the GREAT tribulation.

 

[CrowCross]

Why would the term Church need to be continually repeated in the Revelation,

Because the Church isn't present during the tribulation. That's why it's not mentioned. Pretty much a no-brainer.

The lack of the bride of Christ not being in Revelation....but rather at the marriage supper of the lamb is just one of many reasons that show the pre-tribulation rapture.

You want to be a tribulation martyr for all the wrong reasons.

 

[CrowCross]

The tribulations of men against the sheep . That be what we must face and endure .
The t ribulation of the beast against the saints , that is what we must f ace and endure .
THE WRATH OF GOD , NOW that will come against the beast and against the ungodly
who had served it . Pretty simple if ya ask me .
EVEN paul knew the tribulations of men against us
was the righteous judg ment of God by which we suffer for THE KINGDOM .
But that WE shall recieve rest ON JESUS DAY as they then recieve TRIBULATION by GOD and THE LAMB against them .
A ONE TIME EVENT if anyone would bother reading the bible .
In fact JESUS was REAL clear about this . The false always persecuted the true prophets .
An d the false always loved to hear from the false well favored prophets who always did prophesy the smooth things
and promises of PEACE to them .
The ungodly WILL and DO LIE . and th ose who sit under them WILL surely love that lie .
LIKE THIS . THE wicked does not repent of his evil ways , FOR YE HAVE PROMISED THEM LIFE .
IF YOU had actually preached MY WORDS , they had REPENTED . Aint nothing new under that ol sun dav id .
ITS JUST GETTING far worse in the late and last hours is all . A delusion has come
to gather them . JUST as it did to king ahab .
King ahab , HIS PROPHETS prophesied GO UP and YE SHALL have THE VICTORY .
LITTLE did he know that GOD had sent a lying spirit amongst them prophets
and that they would CONVINCE HIM to GO UP and .....................WELL IT WOULD BE HIS END .
JUST Like it will be the end of all who joined hands with this eucmincal harlot
whose prophets prosphey OF peace and tell the peoples to JOIN hands with THE LIE OF INTERRELIGOIUS DIALGOUE .
OH they will not be g etting the very peace n safety THEY THOUGHT they would , NOT ON JESUS DAY THEY WONT . sudden
destruction . A lying spirit HAS DARN SURE been sent
and sent to the false religoins as well as to chrisetendom . AND THEIR PROPHETS NOW all prophesy the same LIE .
WE ARE ONE , WE ALL SERVE THE SAME GOD , come and join us and we shall have PEACE n safety .
ONLY , yoo hoo , yeah its me ag ain , HOW ON EARTH is this peace plan of GOD when it DENIED HIS CHRIST
and thus HOW ON EARTH are they gonna really recieve this peace n safety
AND NOT RATHER SUDDEN: DESTRUCTION BY THE GOD AND HIS CHRIST their peace and thier LOVE DENIED .
ITS ALL A DELUSION david and a STRONG ONE IT IS .

The good news...Jesus removes His Bride from the Revelation tribulations.
We should comfort each other with those words.

 

[WPM]

Does it have to be there?

Yes. That is where you get your theology

 

[rwb]

Because the Church isn't present during the tribulation. That's why it's not mentioned. Pretty much a no-brainer.

Then why did Christ specifically tell us that as the gospel of the Kingdom of God is preached then shall be great tribulation? Do you fear suffering and dying for proclaiming the name of Christ? Do you not yet understand that just as suffering and death could not hold Jesus, neither can they hold faithful saints? Do you not yet understand that when the flesh of faithful saints is put to death either naturally or martyrdom, we as spiritual body shall still be living souls with Christ in heaven?

Faithful saints are promised deliverance THROUGH not FROM great tribulation! Faithful saints are also promised deliverance from the WRATH of God that shall come upon all the earth as fire comes down upon this earth from heaven. You don't seem to understand the difference between great tribulation in this life, and wrath of God at the end of this age.

 

[WPM]

Connect the dots.

Revelation is about judgement for the evil in the world and bringing the Jews to the true messiah.

Christians.....bride of Christ...know the true messiah.
Christians have their "judgement" payed for by the blood of Christ.

Where exactly in Revelation does it take that the book "is about judgement for the evil in the world and bringing the Jews to the true messiah"?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Funny thing is I know of some non-christians who have better fruit than bible believing christians.

My father was a gentleman, patient, with self control, didn't say a bad about anyone and actually unknowingly applied Biblical principles. That proves God works in our lives, protects us and guides us before He draws us. It may take a lifetime, as it did with my parents to believe in Christ, repent and ask for forgiveness. He was an atheist for most of his life but on God's list. So He prepared both my parents, and was always watching over them. Chosen means just that, "This one is mine, he/she just doesn't know it yet."

 

[David in NJ]

Scripture defines two types of tribulation.
Normal life tribulation.....and the GREAT tribulation.

Please demonstrate these two types from Scripture - Thank You

 

[David in NJ]

The good news...Jesus removes His Bride from the Revelation tribulations.
We should comfort each other with those words.

Good news? or False prophecy!!!

Please post the Scripture from Revelation that SPECIFICALLY Declares: "Jesus removes His Bride from the Revelation tribulations."

 

[amigo de christo]

The good news...Jesus removes His Bride from the Revelation tribulations.
We should comfort each other with those words.

He does . the revelation tribulations are against the very beast and all who followed it and took its mark .
The beast HE cometh against the saints . that we must endure . But the wrath of GOD
and of the lamb , That cometh against all who took the mark of the beast . boils and other things upon them .