It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial
- Thread starter WPM
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Your evasive one-liner responses to detailed biblical exegesis totally exposes the impotence of your position. You are incapable of rebutting the truth. You cannot handle what Scripture teaches.
Lol. Again, all we are getting are your opinions. Where does God's Word teach that?
Taken
Well-Known Member
Oh. That must be disappointing.
I “exactly”, looked in the Thousands of words in God’s Book..
And never found your “exact” words written.
I did find some good tid bits…
Wrath of men
Wrath of spirits
Several mentions of Tribulations, some Greater than others., specific these and those.
Many mentions, of hours, days, nights, weeks, seasons, months, years….
Specific amounts, these, those, that.
Many times of coming to, coming in, coming down, coming out, coming up, coming of, his coming…and more.
Never found the Word Rapture mentioned.
Never found A 7 YEAR Trib mentioned.
Never found A 3rd coming mentioned.
Did find…the word ignorant mentioned several times being applicable to men…
And God not wanting men to be ignorant.
Maybe that is Why learning, words, meanings, figuring of times, figuring of amounts, learning what was to what can be…was so heavily impressed in “God’s Book”…
Maybe you can figure amounts of times, and connections of one time to the other, and connection of what, who is doing… mentioned in Rev.
Rev 11:2
40 and two months
Rev 13:5
Another 40 and two months continued
Rev 11:3
One thousand, two hundred, 3 score days
Rev 12:6
One thousand, two hundred, 3 score days.
Maybe you can learn the Meaning of the Word “Rapture…”
Find its “MEANING” in Scripture…
AND
WHO it applies to AND WHY it applies to THEM and NOT others.
Maybe you could learn the meaning of the WORD “church”…
According to men
AND
According to God.
AND
When searching for what God wants you to Know…USE Gods meaning of CHURCH.
What CHURCH…
Where IS THAT CHURCH…
WHY is that CHURCH there…
Who, what, when, why, where…
Necessary to Arrive at valid applicability…
As taught to little children…
First grade primary teaching…
Do not worry about others…what they think, believe, do…
No one can think, learn, choose for you.
You have to learn who, what, when, why, where For Yourself.
If you believe God wants…
Saved souls, Born Again spirits of Accounted Bodily Dead men to Suffer Gods Terrible, Tribulations …
You should Know Why…
If you do not believe God wants…
Saved souls, Born Again spirits of Accounted Bodily dead men to Suffer Gods Terrible Tribulations…
You should know WHY and IF God has a remedy for them not to Suffer…
You should know …
WHAT, WHY, HOW, WHEN is the remedy effected…
When YOU point your finger, unleash your tongue… with ZERO Scripture to support your Charges…
You become the Hypocrite….
Demanding what you Fail to do.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
Whatever… you instructed me to learn the meaning of Rapture, that I said I already Knew…
Point being it is ignorant to instruct someone to Do what they have already accomplished.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
A rapture is being quickly caught up
“THE Church” IS Christ Jesus’ CHURCH.
Christ Jesus’ Church IS specific people “WHO have Received” Christ Jesus “Offering of Salvation. “
Christs Spirit IS IN His Church…
And Christ Jesus’ Church ARE IN Christ.
Presently Christ Jesus’ Church IS IN Men ON Earth.
Presently Christ Jesus IS IN Heaven. (Gods Kingdom and Throne)
Jesus came to Earth (Gods Footstool).
And ON Earth Jesus Established His Church.
Men ON Earth for centuries Have been Joining Christs Church.
There Shall be A Second / Last Great Tribulation Sent Down From Heaven….
As already happened once.
At the First Great Tribulation sent from Heaven… The Faithful to God “upon the Earth” were Very Few (only Eight people)…
Were the Eight left ON the Earth to Suffer Gods Tribulations?
No.
WHY Not?
Because THEY were Faithful to God!
HOW were the Eight “Kept From” The suffering of Gods Tribulations Sent to Earth?
They Were …Raised up.
To Where? … To 20 feet Above the Mountain Tops…
Are there Clouds Around, near, above the Mountain Tops?
Yes.
Did those LEFT on Earth Suffer?
Yes.
Did any of those left on Earth DIE?
Yes.
Did any of those left on Earth, repent, be sorry for having Rejected God, and confess their Belief?
No evidence for that position.
Did the Eight return to Earth AFTER the Water was assuaged and Earth (dry land) could be seen.
Yes.
So… moving forward (in time)…
Anything new on Earth, (under the sun?)
No.
Some men will be faithful to God.
Some men will Not be Faithful to God.
Another Tribulation sent From Heaven in the “Forecast” ?
Yes.
Are there ANY Faithful to the Lord God presently ON Earth?
Yes.
And Like the EIGHT….before the NEXT Trib from Heaven…
will the Faithful Be Raised Up Off the Earth To The Clouds?
Yes.
Will those left on Earth Suffer?
Yes.
Will those millions left on Earth… have Opportunity to Confess their regret and confess their belief?
Sure.
Will some?
Yes.
Will All ?
No.
Wiil All those left Die?
No …ONLY…
They who rejected faithfulness.
AND
They who “became Heartfully” Faithful.
A small portion of People WHO Believe…but made NO commitment of Faithfulness or commitment of Unfaithfulness…And able to dodge being mortally killed…
Will repopulated the Earth, for generations up to the mark of 1,000 years.
And?
Will the Raptured… The Heartfully Committed to The Lord God, who left Earth, met Their Lord in the clouds…
Return To Earth…?
Yes.
When?
When Their Lord Returns to Earth….
Why?
Because from henceforth of they having Heartfully Committed TO the Lord and Met the Lord face to face…
Where The Lord goes, so also is His Faithful With Him.
And Again … what are Christ the Lord Jesus Faithful Called?
Christ’s Church.
So if you have an expectation of Tribulations to be once Again Sent down from Heaven…
You can exercise your FREEWILL …
TO: be risen above the Earth, during the Tribulations To be sent down upon the whole Earth…
Or you can exercise your FREEWILL…
Choose Nothing, and Hopefully get to Remain on Earth and Get to experience the Tribulations to be Sent to Earth From Heaven.
That ^^ seems as if you are leaning toward, or hoping for that option… and WANT to entice or influence others to do the Same as you.
And you appear rather perturbed that
Other men have chosen to be with Christ the Lord Jesus, in the Clouds Above the Earth, During the Great and Terrible Tribulations to be sent from Heaven upon the whole Earth.
Very strange.
Last edited:
TrevorHL
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This has been a long running thread and it would be difficult to respond to the many views, even the present discussion.
I find the following statement by John Thomas in his book Elpis Israel Page 441 1850 interesting and to some extent relevant to this topic as he advocated pre-millenniumism and the return of the Jews to the Holy Land:
"There is, then, a partial and primary restoration of Jews before the manifestation, which is to serve as the nucleus, or basis, of future operations in the restoration of the rest of the tribes after he has appeared in the kingdom. The pre-adventual colonization of Palestine will be on purely political principles; and the Jewish colonists will return in unbelief of the Messiahship of Jesus, and of the truth as it is in him. They will emigrate thither as agriculturists and traders, in the hope of ultimately establishing their commonwealth, but more immediately of getting rich in silver and gold by commerce with India, and in cattle and goods by their industry at home under the efficient protection of the British power. And this their expectation will not be deceived; for, before Gogue invades their country, it is described by the prophet, as “a land of unwalled villages, whose inhabitants are at rest, and dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates; and possessed of silver and gold, cattle and goods, dwelling in the midst of the land. Ezekiel 38:11-13"
Kind regards
Trevor
I find the following statement by John Thomas in his book Elpis Israel Page 441 1850 interesting and to some extent relevant to this topic as he advocated pre-millenniumism and the return of the Jews to the Holy Land:
"There is, then, a partial and primary restoration of Jews before the manifestation, which is to serve as the nucleus, or basis, of future operations in the restoration of the rest of the tribes after he has appeared in the kingdom. The pre-adventual colonization of Palestine will be on purely political principles; and the Jewish colonists will return in unbelief of the Messiahship of Jesus, and of the truth as it is in him. They will emigrate thither as agriculturists and traders, in the hope of ultimately establishing their commonwealth, but more immediately of getting rich in silver and gold by commerce with India, and in cattle and goods by their industry at home under the efficient protection of the British power. And this their expectation will not be deceived; for, before Gogue invades their country, it is described by the prophet, as “a land of unwalled villages, whose inhabitants are at rest, and dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates; and possessed of silver and gold, cattle and goods, dwelling in the midst of the land. Ezekiel 38:11-13"
Kind regards
Trevor
Taken
Well-Known Member
- How many wicked survived in Noah's day?
- How many wicked survived in Sodom?
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
I try to base all my theological opinions upon hard repeated Scripture.
You have nothing to support your beliefs. That is why your posts are bereft of Scripture.
God physically killed them
Matthew 11
Physical death first, then judgment
23 And you, Capernaum, who[a] are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you.”
Hebrews 9
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
All people die once, but the wicked die twice. It's called the second death when they get thrown into the lake of fire, after they are judged unworthy of Life
