What God Says About the False Pre-trib Rapture

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Davy

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God's Message that He is against the false pre-trib rapture doctrine of men is found in Ezekiel 13.

I know, that's the Old Testament, isn't it? That's just it, one of the ways the deceivers work against Christ's Church today is by lying about the Old Testament as if it is all past history when it is not. Not only that, but often there is more detail given in the Old Testament prophets about the end than what The New Testament Books give. And justly so, because why should all that detail first given in the prophets be repeated all over again in The New Testament, just because some brethren are too lazy to study their Old Testament Books? Instead what The New Testament does is give short quotes from the OT prophets, but often not the full detail that's written in the Books of God's prophets. (For example: the return of God's River of the waters of life back to this earth, and the point where it flows from, and its location on earth, isn't shown in Revelation 22, but it is shown in Ezekiel 47).

So excuses for not recognizing this matter in Ezekiel 13 in The Old Testament just won't hold water, so don't try and make that dog hunt.

Ezek 13
13 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 "Son of man, prophesy against the
prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, 'Hear ye the word of the LORD;'
3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; 'Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
5
Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.'

For those who don't realize who that "house of Israel" represents today that God is speaking this about, then you need to study your Old Testament more, and with that start at 1 Kings 11 through 2 Kings 17. The "house of Israel" is about the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. After God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms, that "house of Israel" label applies ONLY to the ten northern tribes, and not the Jews of the southern kingdom called the "house of Judah".

And with the following, it really doesn't matter if you believe it or not, because I suspect those who haven't done their Old Testament prophecy homework are ignorant of it anyway. God scattered the ten northern tribes of Israel out of the holy land first, never to return to this day. Only a small remnant of the ten tribes rejected Jeroboam's calf idols he setup in the north and went south and joined with the Jews of the southern kingdom of Judah at Jerusalem-Judea. The majority of the ten tribes remained under Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim which God had made king over ISRAEL in the northern land (See 1 Kings 11 & 12). And those ten tribes made up the majority of all Israelites.

The ten tribes were removed by the kings of Assyria and taken captive to the lands of Assyria and the Medes (See 2 Kings 17). Ancient historians wrote about them there, as did the Assyrians in their cuneiform clay tablet histories. The ten tribes lost their heritage as part of old Israel, and took on Gentile customs, living among Gentiles, which was one of the curses God promised them if they rebelled (See Deut.4 and Deut.28). The ten tribes would then migrate westward into Asia Minor and Europe, to form the western Christian nations. And that was prophecy about God's promise to Jacob that his seed would become "a company of nations" (Gen.35), and that Joseph's son Ephraim would become "a multitude of nations" (Gen.48). And thus The Gospel would go to them among the Gentiles, and they both together would become Christ's Church. But only a remnant of God's people are given to understand about that history, but the prophecies that God would do that are written of in His prophets, especially in the Book of Hosea, which Apostle Paul quoted from to Roman Gentile believers on Jesus Christ (See Romans 9).

Understanding that above history is important that reveals just who this "house of Israel" is here in Ezekiel 13 that God is speaking to, and how it includes leaders in today's Christian Church.

6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, "The LORD saith:" and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

The lying leaders among the Christian Church, believers from the lost ten tribes along with Gentile believers, say God says this, or that, but our Heavenly Father says He did NOT send them.

7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, "The LORD saith it"; albeit I have not spoken?

Again, those lying leaders in Christ's Church claim God says this or that, when He did NOT say it. And those liars well know the majority of their congregation is not going to go look it up to see if what they claim is actually written or not. All the "hireling" in Christ's Church that treats preaching as a business has to do is dress nice, speak nice, get a bunch of seminary titles added onto their name tag, push peace-love-dove messages, and constantly beg for money (See John 10 and Matthew 23 about those who sit in Moses' seat).

Now of course I'm not talking about the good preachers and pastors of The Gospel that care for their congregations, and who stay in God's Word as written. God's Message here is against those that lie and claim He said, and God did not say. Those are about the "hireling" because they are not 'sent' by God, and thus don't really understand a lot of God's written Word, for it is closed off to them. But they act... like they know all about it, and do lie against the written Word of God to serve their own filthy lucre purpose. That also is why so many different seminary doctrines of men get started, because The Word is shut off to a lot of them, except for the basic principles of Christ regarding preaching of The Gospel. But past that, they are lost in much of God's Word and cannot even agree much with each other.

8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

I'm not making this up. God is angry about the lies those leaders in Christ's Church push whom He did not send.

(Continued...)
 

Davy

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(Continued...)

Ezek.13:9
And Mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of My people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.


When the time comes at the end of this world when Lord Jesus returns to gather His faithful Church, God shows those He did not send will not... be included in that gathering. And make no mistake that Lord Jesus' future reign will be with His elect Church FROM the holy land, and not up in Heaven somewhere like false preachers wrongly teach against God's Word (See where Jesus returns to and reigns from with His faithful elect Church, as written in Zechariah 14. And what do ya know, Zechariah is an Old Testament prophet!).


10 Because, even because they have seduced My people, saying, "Peace"; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:
11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.
12 Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, "Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?"
13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in Mine anger, and great hailstones in My fury to consume it.
14 So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
15 Thus will I accomplish my wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, "The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;"
16 To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.


Per Apostle Paul about the end of this world in 1 Thessalonians 5, he said when they (the deceived) say, "Peace and safety", then "sudden destruction" will come upon them. Paul was pulling from the Old Testament prophets about the "day of the LORD", which is the day when Lord Jesus returns, the LAST day of this present world (Revelation 16:15 where Jesus says He comes "as a thief", thus referring to the "day of the LORD").

That Peace and safety idea points to the 'end' ("great tribulation") being about world peace, and not all out WWIII and chaos. The Daniel 8:23-25 prophecy about the coming Antichrist, called there a "king of fierce countenance", will use Peace to destroy many souls at the end of this world, and Craft will prosper by his hand, it says. Yet it will be a FAKE world peace with the purpose to deceive God's people, especially these hirelings in Christ's Church represented from among the "house of Israel". So just what preachers really push that WWIII and chaos sensationalism for the "great tribulation" time, like in Tim LaHaye's 13 book Left-Behind series?

Untempered morter means like brick mortar that won't harden, won't set up. So when a heavy rain storm hits the wall, its mortar begins to break down, and the wall falls. That's the analogy God is using in the above for the falseness those leaders preach which He did not send. The timing for that "untempered morter" is NOW, TODAY, by the lies of the doctrines of men taught in place of God's written Word.

17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,
18 And say, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of My people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?


Just Who does the saving anyway? Only God does. But these hirelings hunt souls to tell them they are saved instead of warning them to repent, like the OSAS doctrine of men. And the ones on man's OSAS (once saved, always saved) doctrine I've spoken with no longer hold Communion with Lord Jesus and ask Him forgiveness of future sin, as that would mean that all their 'future' sins are not already forgiven and would negate man's false OSAS theory. With some of them on that false doctrine, they are taught they have no need to even watch themselves for doing future sin! (1 John 1 counters that OSAS doctrine of men).

19 And will ye pollute Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to My people that hear your lies?

There it is, the prosperity ministries. Do you realize some of those hirelings God did not send actually preach that if you are not wealthy, then you are not following Christ's Way, and that you are doing something wrong? Those hirelings instead preach to save the souls that should not live, and slay the souls of God's people that should not die, by their lies.

Warning: God Exposes The Pre-trib Rapture From Men:

Ezek.13:20
Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD;
Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

There it is, God is AGAINST those who hunt the souls of His people TO MAKE THEM FLY! What's that old Gospel song called, I'll Fly Away?

21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver My people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
KJV


When will God do that delivering of His people out their hand? It won't be during the "great tribulation", because that is the actual time the hirelings are preparing those souls to fly away before it happens, which is actually a lie, for they will go through the coming tribulation like the rest of Christ's Church. They will be delivered during Christ's future "thousand years" Millennial reign with His faithful elect per Revelation 20. And they will... stand in judgment throughout that thousand years and be taught their error, and the difference between the holy and profane, and the clean and the unclean.
 

rebuilder 454

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A better title would be " by omitting the pretrib rapture verses, I build a case for my postrib rapture theory"
 
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Davy

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Brethren in Christ Jesus:

The false pre-trib rapture is a theory from men. It was first preached in a Christian Church in 1830's Great Britain by John Nelson Darby, and he suggested it as a 'secret' rapture, which he later recanted. Investigative journalist Dave Macpherson documented this history in his book The Rapture Plot.



The Biblical fact that Lord Jesus revealed His only future coming will be AFTER... the tribulation, per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, should be plenty enough valid proof that the pre-trib rapture theory is false. So why are so many brethren deceived into that false theory? There are several reasons...

1. not everyone studies their Bible as they should, but instead believe what their preacher says without checking them out in God's written Word, or what a system organization representing their Church denomination says.

2. they were raised in a pre-trib Church; their parents and grandparents attended a pre-trib rapture Church. Their closest friends go to a pre-trib rapture Church, and one certainly would not want to disappoint them.

3. their preachers raised on the doctrine followed a line of preachers who attended a specific pre-trib rapture seminary, like Dallas Theological Seminary.

3. it is a 'popular' doctrine, even though it is nowhere written in God's Word. And many seek to follow what is popular.

4. it is a false doctrine that will serve in the "strong delusion" of the future "great tribulation" time because those like in the above received not the love of the Truth (i.e., do not stay in God's written Word).

5. it is a doctrine for the "five foolish virgins" who did not carry a spare vessel of the Oil in order to meet The Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) to go with the Oil in their lamps (Matthew 25). The Oil represents The Holy Spirit. They don't listen to The Holy Spirit; they listen to men instead.

6. God has closed their spiritual eyes and ears because they won't listen to Him in His Word.

7. God allows His enemies to creep in among His people to deceive as a test to find out who will heed His Word and not man's word. Apostles Paul and Peter especially gave this warning for the end about many who will fall away from Christ.

8. like Jesus' Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven per Matthew 13, when asked by His disciples why He only spoke to the multitudes in parables, Jesus said the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven is not given to them (i.e., to the multitudes), but that blessed are His disciples to whom it is given to know. That represents a type of 'spiritual blindness' God has put upon the minds and hearts of many today in prep for the coming tribulation.
 

rebuilder 454

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Brethren in Christ Jesus:

The false pre-trib rapture is a theory from men. It was first preached in a Christian Church in 1830's Great Britain by John Nelson Darby, and he suggested it as a 'secret' rapture, which he later recanted. Investigative journalist Dave Macpherson documented this history in his book The Rapture Plot.



The Biblical fact that Lord Jesus revealed His only future coming will be AFTER... the tribulation, per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, should be plenty enough valid proof that the pre-trib rapture theory is false. So why are so many brethren deceived into that false theory? There are several reasons...

1. not everyone studies their Bible as they should, but instead believe what their preacher says without checking them out in God's written Word, or what a system organization representing their Church denomination says.

2. they were raised in a pre-trib Church; their parents and grandparents attended a pre-trib rapture Church. Their closest friends go to a pre-trib rapture Church, and one certainly would not want to disappoint them.

3. their preachers raised on the doctrine followed a line of preachers who attended a specific pre-trib rapture seminary, like Dallas Theological Seminary.

3. it is a 'popular' doctrine, even though it is nowhere written in God's Word. And many seek to follow what is popular.

4. it is a false doctrine that will serve in the "strong delusion" of the future "great tribulation" time because those like in the above received not the love of the Truth (i.e., do not stay in God's written Word).

5. it is a doctrine for the "five foolish virgins" who did not carry a spare vessel of the Oil in order to meet The Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) to go with the Oil in their lamps (Matthew 25). The Oil represents The Holy Spirit. They don't listen to The Holy Spirit; they listen to men instead.

6. God has closed their spiritual eyes and ears because they won't listen to Him in His Word.

7. God allows His enemies to creep in among His people to deceive as a test to find out who will heed His Word and not man's word. Apostles Paul and Peter especially gave this warning for the end about many who will fall away from Christ.

8. like Jesus' Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven per Matthew 13, when asked by His disciples why He only spoke to the multitudes in parables, Jesus said the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven is not given to them (i.e., to the multitudes), but that blessed are His disciples to whom it is given to know. That represents a type of 'spiritual blindness' God has put upon the minds and hearts of many today in prep for the coming tribulation.
Every one of your dynamics is false under honest investigation.
"One coming theory" is a man made non biblical lie.
Jesus said BEFORE THE FLOOD Is the setting of his coming...ironically, ALL POSTRIBS frame the flood, as the 7 yr tribulation.( if that is not enough, Jesus made sure with more evidence, anyone with a brain could get it)
Jesus also declared that he will come after the tribulation which is after the flood.

Jesus said his coming is compared to Lot, who was gathered pretrib, and even give the setting as a pre tribulation setting with normal life, commerce, marriage planning for the future, etc.

Rev 14 has Jesus sitting on a cloud, which is neither the rapture or the second coming. And he is holding a sickle which is neither the rapture or the second coming. And he is gathering the jewish people and that is during the great tribulation.

All facts, and all do massive damage to the "one coming" theory, that is NOWHERE in the bible.

"Ok class If you have 3 apples in the basket how many apples are in the basket."
Postribber raises hand
" Ok Johnny, tell the class the no brainer"
Johnny yells out "one".

....whew...too funny.
 
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rebuilder 454

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Brethren in Christ Jesus:

The false pre-trib rapture is a theory from men. It was first preached in a Christian Church in 1830's Great Britain by John Nelson Darby, and he suggested it as a 'secret' rapture, which he later recanted. Investigative journalist Dave Macpherson documented this history in his book The Rapture Plot.



The Biblical fact that Lord Jesus revealed His only future coming will be AFTER... the tribulation, per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, should be plenty enough valid proof that the pre-trib rapture theory is false. So why are so many brethren deceived into that false theory? There are several reasons...

1. not everyone studies their Bible as they should, but instead believe what their preacher says without checking them out in God's written Word, or what a system organization representing their Church denomination says.

2. they were raised in a pre-trib Church; their parents and grandparents attended a pre-trib rapture Church. Their closest friends go to a pre-trib rapture Church, and one certainly would not want to disappoint them.

3. their preachers raised on the doctrine followed a line of preachers who attended a specific pre-trib rapture seminary, like Dallas Theological Seminary.

3. it is a 'popular' doctrine, even though it is nowhere written in God's Word. And many seek to follow what is popular.

4. it is a false doctrine that will serve in the "strong delusion" of the future "great tribulation" time because those like in the above received not the love of the Truth (i.e., do not stay in God's written Word).

5. it is a doctrine for the "five foolish virgins" who did not carry a spare vessel of the Oil in order to meet The Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) to go with the Oil in their lamps (Matthew 25). The Oil represents The Holy Spirit. They don't listen to The Holy Spirit; they listen to men instead.

6. God has closed their spiritual eyes and ears because they won't listen to Him in His Word.

7. God allows His enemies to creep in among His people to deceive as a test to find out who will heed His Word and not man's word. Apostles Paul and Peter especially gave this warning for the end about many who will fall away from Christ.

8. like Jesus' Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven per Matthew 13, when asked by His disciples why He only spoke to the multitudes in parables, Jesus said the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven is not given to them (i.e., to the multitudes), but that blessed are His disciples to whom it is given to know. That represents a type of 'spiritual blindness' God has put upon the minds and hearts of many today in prep for the coming tribulation.
QUOTE
5. it is a doctrine for the "five foolish virgins" who did not carry a spare vessel of the Oil in order to meet The Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) to go with the Oil in their lamps (Matthew 25). The Oil represents The Holy Spirit. They don't listen to The Holy Spirit; they listen to men instead.

Lol
Hold on there .
Remember the postrib workbook claim????
THOSE TAKEN, ARE TAKEN TO JUDGEMENT.
REMEMBER YOUR DOCTRINAL RIDICULOUS THEORY????

So now you have the ridiculous crossroad, of insisting, the wise are taken to the marriage and judged, but the foolish righteous ones stay as the saved.
You must have forgotten and strayed off course.
You Better leave the virgin parable alone.
Let us guys, not protecting a failed doctrine, handle that one.

.....since it is a another no-brainer you are attempting to muddy up.
 

rebuilder 454

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Brethren in Christ Jesus:

The false pre-trib rapture is a theory from men. It was first preached in a Christian Church in 1830's Great Britain by John Nelson Darby, and he suggested it as a 'secret' rapture, which he later recanted. Investigative journalist Dave Macpherson documented this history in his book The Rapture Plot.



The Biblical fact that Lord Jesus revealed His only future coming will be AFTER... the tribulation, per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, should be plenty enough valid proof that the pre-trib rapture theory is false. So why are so many brethren deceived into that false theory? There are several reasons...

1. not everyone studies their Bible as they should, but instead believe what their preacher says without checking them out in God's written Word, or what a system organization representing their Church denomination says.

2. they were raised in a pre-trib Church; their parents and grandparents attended a pre-trib rapture Church. Their closest friends go to a pre-trib rapture Church, and one certainly would not want to disappoint them.

3. their preachers raised on the doctrine followed a line of preachers who attended a specific pre-trib rapture seminary, like Dallas Theological Seminary.

3. it is a 'popular' doctrine, even though it is nowhere written in God's Word. And many seek to follow what is popular.

4. it is a false doctrine that will serve in the "strong delusion" of the future "great tribulation" time because those like in the above received not the love of the Truth (i.e., do not stay in God's written Word).

5. it is a doctrine for the "five foolish virgins" who did not carry a spare vessel of the Oil in order to meet The Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) to go with the Oil in their lamps (Matthew 25). The Oil represents The Holy Spirit. They don't listen to The Holy Spirit; they listen to men instead.

6. God has closed their spiritual eyes and ears because they won't listen to Him in His Word.

7. God allows His enemies to creep in among His people to deceive as a test to find out who will heed His Word and not man's word. Apostles Paul and Peter especially gave this warning for the end about many who will fall away from Christ.

8. like Jesus' Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven per Matthew 13, when asked by His disciples why He only spoke to the multitudes in parables, Jesus said the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven is not given to them (i.e., to the multitudes), but that blessed are His disciples to whom it is given to know. That represents a type of 'spiritual blindness' God has put upon the minds and hearts of many today in prep for the coming tribulation.
QUOTE
"2. they were raised in a pre-trib Church; their parents and grandparents attended a pre-trib rapture Church. Their closest friends go to a pre-trib rapture Church, and one certainly would not want to disappoint them"

What a juvenile lame stupid assertion

That like me saying you were raised by monkeys since you can not process bible passages.
 
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rebuilder 454

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QUOTE
"2. they were raised in a pre-trib Church; their parents and grandparents attended a pre-trib rapture Church. Their closest friends go to a pre-trib rapture Church, and one certainly would not want to disappoint them"

What a juvenile lame stupid assertion

That like me saying you were raised by monkeys since you can not process bible passages.
Postribber methods.
Embarrassing
SMH
 

rebuilder 454

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Brethren in Christ Jesus:

The false pre-trib rapture is a theory from men. It was first preached in a Christian Church in 1830's Great Britain by John Nelson Darby, and he suggested it as a 'secret' rapture, which he later recanted. Investigative journalist Dave Macpherson documented this history in his book The Rapture Plot.



The Biblical fact that Lord Jesus revealed His only future coming will be AFTER... the tribulation, per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, should be plenty enough valid proof that the pre-trib rapture theory is false. So why are so many brethren deceived into that false theory? There are several reasons...

1. not everyone studies their Bible as they should, but instead believe what their preacher says without checking them out in God's written Word, or what a system organization representing their Church denomination says.

2. they were raised in a pre-trib Church; their parents and grandparents attended a pre-trib rapture Church. Their closest friends go to a pre-trib rapture Church, and one certainly would not want to disappoint them.

3. their preachers raised on the doctrine followed a line of preachers who attended a specific pre-trib rapture seminary, like Dallas Theological Seminary.

3. it is a 'popular' doctrine, even though it is nowhere written in God's Word. And many seek to follow what is popular.

4. it is a false doctrine that will serve in the "strong delusion" of the future "great tribulation" time because those like in the above received not the love of the Truth (i.e., do not stay in God's written Word).

5. it is a doctrine for the "five foolish virgins" who did not carry a spare vessel of the Oil in order to meet The Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) to go with the Oil in their lamps (Matthew 25). The Oil represents The Holy Spirit. They don't listen to The Holy Spirit; they listen to men instead.

6. God has closed their spiritual eyes and ears because they won't listen to Him in His Word.

7. God allows His enemies to creep in among His people to deceive as a test to find out who will heed His Word and not man's word. Apostles Paul and Peter especially gave this warning for the end about many who will fall away from Christ.

8. like Jesus' Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven per Matthew 13, when asked by His disciples why He only spoke to the multitudes in parables, Jesus said the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven is not given to them (i.e., to the multitudes), but that blessed are His disciples to whom it is given to know. That represents a type of 'spiritual blindness' God has put upon the minds and hearts of many today in prep for the coming tribulation.
Oh wow!!
Where can I go to get an "education" like yours?
Put down university?
On postribber road?

Outta gas theological institute?
On lame duck highway?
 

rebuilder 454

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Brethren in Christ Jesus:

The false pre-trib rapture is a theory from men. It was first preached in a Christian Church in 1830's Great Britain by John Nelson Darby, and he suggested it as a 'secret' rapture, which he later recanted. Investigative journalist Dave Macpherson documented this history in his book The Rapture Plot.



The Biblical fact that Lord Jesus revealed His only future coming will be AFTER... the tribulation, per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, should be plenty enough valid proof that the pre-trib rapture theory is false. So why are so many brethren deceived into that false theory? There are several reasons...

1. not everyone studies their Bible as they should, but instead believe what their preacher says without checking them out in God's written Word, or what a system organization representing their Church denomination says.



QUOTE
"Brethren in Christ Jesus:

The false pre-trib rapture is a theory from men. It was first preached in a Christian Church in 1830's Great Britain by John Nelson Darby, and he suggested it as a 'secret' rapture, which he later recanted. Investigative journalist Dave Macpherson documented this history in his book The Rapture Plot....
.....
......"


That copy and paste parroting is so tired and lame, but you must like hearing nonsense that does nothing for your man made doctrinal theory.
 

CrowCross

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No one here has seen any such pretrib rapture verses, because there aren't any.
This response was written for another with similar views that you have....I even started a new post here.

The bible doesn't outright say...."the rapture will be followed by a 7 year tribulation. The bible also doesn't say outright there is a trinity consisting of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But, if you connect the dots a christian can understand the basic principles of the Godhead.

When the dots surround the rapture of the church are connected the pre-trib rapture becomes obvious.

For example I have shown you the bible presents Jesus as returning on a white horse in Rev 19 and another return where Jesus isn't riding a white horse. I've even presented you with depictions of the event. No white horse at the rapture while defections show a white horse at the Rev 19 return. That's one dot.

I've presented you with a social economic picture mentioned by Christ Jesus that speaks of His return and describes it like the days of Noah and not......which don't align with the social economic days of the end of the tribulation. Another dot to connect.

You have been presented several verses that show Christians....the bride of Christ... are not destined for wrath or the trials of the 7 year tribulation. Another dot to connect.

You have been shown the 7 year tribulation is a judgement for the people of the earth...and should understand Jesus already paid the price for that Judgement concerning Christians on the cross 2,000 years ago.....another dot to connect.

Another dot to connect would be the many mansions (dwelling places) in heaven that Jesus is currently building and the promise of His return to take us there. This fits in with the Jewish engagement and wedding of the times of Christ.

I have shown you another dot with the 2 Thes 2 mention of the gathering and removal of the restrainer and departure that happens prior to the 7 year tribulation. One more dot to connect.

You have been shown that the Church isn't mentioned by name after after chapter 4 of Revelations (19 times prior to chapter 5) and then not again to chapter 20. ....this is another dot.

There's more dots to connect that are buried deeper in scripture that I won't mention.

Dot + dot + dot + dot + dot + dot + dot = a pre-trib rapture. All you need to do is connect them.

Where are your dots to connect that show a single return of Jesus at the end of the tribulation?
 

CrowCross

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QUOTE
"Brethren in Christ Jesus:

The false pre-trib rapture is a theory from men. It was first preached in a Christian Church in 1830's Great Britain by John Nelson Darby, and he suggested it as a 'secret' rapture, which he later recanted. Investigative journalist Dave Macpherson documented this history in his book The Rapture Plot....
.....
......"


That copy and paste parroting is so tired and lame, but you must like hearing nonsense that does nothing for your man made doctrinal theory.
Many of them don't understand the correct history...and assume Darby was the inventor. Darby may have popularized it but he didn't invent it.

For a quick history the anti-pre-tribbers should visit this site....and learn. The following is an excerpt from the site.

A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE RAPTURE

Tom’s Perspectives

by Thomas Ice​

One of the most often cited objections to pretribulationism is that it is a new

teaching in church history having only come on the scene in the 1830s. It is often

argued that if the pre-trib rapture were biblical then it would have been taught earlier

and throughout church history. In the last decade, individuals have found a number of

pre-1830 references to a pre-trib rapture. Here is a summary of that evidence.

THE EARLY CHURCH

Since imminency is considered to be a crucial feature of pretribulationism by

scholars such as John Walvoord,1 it is significant that the Apostolic Fathers, though

posttribulational, at the same time just as clearly taught the pretribulational feature of

imminence. Since it was common in the early church to hold contradictory positions

without even an awareness of inconsistency, it would not be surprising to learn that

their era supports both views. Larry Crutchfield notes, “This belief in the imminent

return of Christ within the context of ongoing persecution has prompted us to broadly

label the views of the earliest fathers, 'imminent intratribulationism.’”2

Expressions of imminency abound in the Apostolic Fathers. Clement of Rome,

Ignatius of Antioch, The Didache, The Epistle of Barnabas, and The Shepherd of Hermas all

speak of imminency.3 Furthermore, The Shepherd of Hermas speaks of the

pretribulational concept of escaping the tribulation.

You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and

because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. Go, therefore, and

tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a

type of the great tribulation that is coming. If then ye prepare yourselves,

and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for

you to escape it, if your heart be pure and spotless, and ye spend the rest of

the days of your life in serving the Lord blamelessly.4

Evidence of pretribulationism surfaces during the early medieval period in a sermon

some attribute to Ephraem the Syrian, but more likely the product of one scholars call

Pseudo-Ephraem, entitled Sermon on The Last Times, The Antichrist, and The End of the

World
.

5 The sermon was written some time between the fourth and sixth century. The

rapture statement reads as follows:

Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare

ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from

the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? . . . For all the saints and

elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are

taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world

because of our sins.

This statement evidences a clear belief that all Christians will escape the tribulation

through a gathering to the Lord and is stated early in the sermon. How else can this be

understood other than as pretribulational? The later second coming of Christ to the

earth with the saints is mentioned at the end of the sermon.

Visiting the site goes into more detail concerning THE MEDIEVAL CHURCH and the THE REFORMATION CHURCH
 

rebuilder 454

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This response was written for another with similar views that you have....I even started a new post here.

The bible doesn't outright say...."the rapture will be followed by a 7 year tribulation. The bible also doesn't say outright there is a trinity consisting of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But, if you connect the dots a christian can understand the basic principles of the Godhead.

When the dots surround the rapture of the church are connected the pre-trib rapture becomes obvious.

For example I have shown you the bible presents Jesus as returning on a white horse in Rev 19 and another return where Jesus isn't riding a white horse. I've even presented you with depictions of the event. No white horse at the rapture while defections show a white horse at the Rev 19 return. That's one dot.

I've presented you with a social economic picture mentioned by Christ Jesus that speaks of His return and describes it like the days of Noah and not......which don't align with the social economic days of the end of the tribulation. Another dot to connect.

You have been presented several verses that show Christians....the bride of Christ... are not destined for wrath or the trials of the 7 year tribulation. Another dot to connect.

You have been shown the 7 year tribulation is a judgement for the people of the earth...and should understand Jesus already paid the price for that Judgement concerning Christians on the cross 2,000 years ago.....another dot to connect.

Another dot to connect would be the many mansions (dwelling places) in heaven that Jesus is currently building and the promise of His return to take us there. This fits in with the Jewish engagement and wedding of the times of Christ.

I have shown you another dot with the 2 Thes 2 mention of the gathering and removal of the restrainer and departure that happens prior to the 7 year tribulation. One more dot to connect.

You have been shown that the Church isn't mentioned by name after after chapter 4 of Revelations (19 times prior to chapter 5) and then not again to chapter 20. ....this is another dot.

There's more dots to connect that are buried deeper in scripture that I won't mention.

Dot + dot + dot + dot + dot + dot + dot = a pre-trib rapture. All you need to do is connect them.

Where are your dots to connect that show a single return of Jesus at the end of the tribulation?
Plus their assertions are wrong.
"One coming" ...the actual backbone of their entire doctrine that is blatantly false.
They have no clue if the purpose of the trib,
Nor the purpose of the rapture.

...not a clue.
 
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rebuilder 454

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Many of them don't understand the correct history...and assume Darby was the inventor. Darby may have popularized it but he didn't invent it.

For a quick history the anti-pre-tribbers should visit this site....and learn. The following is an excerpt from the site.

A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE RAPTURE

Tom’s Perspectives

by Thomas Ice​

One of the most often cited objections to pretribulationism is that it is a new

teaching in church history having only come on the scene in the 1830s. It is often

argued that if the pre-trib rapture were biblical then it would have been taught earlier

and throughout church history. In the last decade, individuals have found a number of

pre-1830 references to a pre-trib rapture. Here is a summary of that evidence.

THE EARLY CHURCH

Since imminency is considered to be a crucial feature of pretribulationism by

scholars such as John Walvoord,1 it is significant that the Apostolic Fathers, though

posttribulational, at the same time just as clearly taught the pretribulational feature of

imminence. Since it was common in the early church to hold contradictory positions

without even an awareness of inconsistency, it would not be surprising to learn that

their era supports both views. Larry Crutchfield notes, “This belief in the imminent

return of Christ within the context of ongoing persecution has prompted us to broadly

label the views of the earliest fathers, 'imminent intratribulationism.’”2

Expressions of imminency abound in the Apostolic Fathers. Clement of Rome,

Ignatius of Antioch, The Didache, The Epistle of Barnabas, and The Shepherd of Hermas all

speak of imminency.3 Furthermore, The Shepherd of Hermas speaks of the

pretribulational concept of escaping the tribulation.

You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and

because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. Go, therefore, and

tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a

type of the great tribulation that is coming. If then ye prepare yourselves,

and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for

you to escape it, if your heart be pure and spotless, and ye spend the rest of

the days of your life in serving the Lord blamelessly.4

Evidence of pretribulationism surfaces during the early medieval period in a sermon

some attribute to Ephraem the Syrian, but more likely the product of one scholars call

Pseudo-Ephraem, entitled Sermon on The Last Times, The Antichrist, and The End of the

World
.

5 The sermon was written some time between the fourth and sixth century. The

rapture statement reads as follows:

Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare

ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from

the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? . . . For all the saints and

elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are

taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world

because of our sins.

This statement evidences a clear belief that all Christians will escape the tribulation

through a gathering to the Lord and is stated early in the sermon. How else can this be

understood other than as pretribulational? The later second coming of Christ to the

earth with the saints is mentioned at the end of the sermon.

Visiting the site goes into more detail concerning THE MEDIEVAL CHURCH and the THE REFORMATION CHURCH
Yep
Both postribs and Catholics actually base their eschatology on those dead men of the early church.
Early church doctrine was rife with error.

Both of those groups are anti pretrib.

Makes sense that Catholics and postribbers are getting their doctrine from the same place.
 

JimKnox

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God's Message that He is against the false pre-trib rapture doctrine of men is found in Ezekiel 13.

I know, that's the Old Testament, isn't it? That's just it, one of the ways the deceivers work against Christ's Church today is by lying about the Old Testament as if it is all past history when it is not. Not only that, but often there is more detail given in the Old Testament prophets about the end than what The New Testament Books give. And justly so, because why should all that detail first given in the prophets be repeated all over again in The New Testament, just because some brethren are too lazy to study their Old Testament Books? Instead what The New Testament does is give short quotes from the OT prophets, but often not the full detail that's written in the Books of God's prophets. (For example: the return of God's River of the waters of life back to this earth, and the point where it flows from, and its location on earth, isn't shown in Revelation 22, but it is shown in Ezekiel 47).

So excuses for not recognizing this matter in Ezekiel 13 in The Old Testament just won't hold water, so don't try and make that dog hunt.

Ezek 13
13 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 "Son of man, prophesy against the
prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, 'Hear ye the word of the LORD;'
3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; 'Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
5
Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.'

For those who don't realize who that "house of Israel" represents today that God is speaking this about, then you need to study your Old Testament more, and with that start at 1 Kings 11 through 2 Kings 17. The "house of Israel" is about the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. After God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms, that "house of Israel" label applies ONLY to the ten northern tribes, and not the Jews of the southern kingdom called the "house of Judah".

And with the following, it really doesn't matter if you believe it or not, because I suspect those who haven't done their Old Testament prophecy homework are ignorant of it anyway. God scattered the ten northern tribes of Israel out of the holy land first, never to return to this day. Only a small remnant of the ten tribes rejected Jeroboam's calf idols he setup in the north and went south and joined with the Jews of the southern kingdom of Judah at Jerusalem-Judea. The majority of the ten tribes remained under Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim which God had made king over ISRAEL in the northern land (See 1 Kings 11 & 12). And those ten tribes made up the majority of all Israelites.

The ten tribes were removed by the kings of Assyria and taken captive to the lands of Assyria and the Medes (See 2 Kings 17). Ancient historians wrote about them there, as did the Assyrians in their cuneiform clay tablet histories. The ten tribes lost their heritage as part of old Israel, and took on Gentile customs, living among Gentiles, which was one of the curses God promised them if they rebelled (See Deut.4 and Deut.28). The ten tribes would then migrate westward into Asia Minor and Europe, to form the western Christian nations. And that was prophecy about God's promise to Jacob that his seed would become "a company of nations" (Gen.35), and that Joseph's son Ephraim would become "a multitude of nations" (Gen.48). And thus The Gospel would go to them among the Gentiles, and they both together would become Christ's Church. But only a remnant of God's people are given to understand about that history, but the prophecies that God would do that are written of in His prophets, especially in the Book of Hosea, which Apostle Paul quoted from to Roman Gentile believers on Jesus Christ (See Romans 9).

Understanding that above history is important that reveals just who this "house of Israel" is here in Ezekiel 13 that God is speaking to, and how it includes leaders in today's Christian Church.

6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, "The LORD saith:" and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

The lying leaders among the Christian Church, believers from the lost ten tribes along with Gentile believers, say God says this, or that, but our Heavenly Father says He did NOT send them.

7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, "The LORD saith it"; albeit I have not spoken?

Again, those lying leaders in Christ's Church claim God says this or that, when He did NOT say it. And those liars well know the majority of their congregation is not going to go look it up to see if what they claim is actually written or not. All the "hireling" in Christ's Church that treats preaching as a business has to do is dress nice, speak nice, get a bunch of seminary titles added onto their name tag, push peace-love-dove messages, and constantly beg for money (See John 10 and Matthew 23 about those who sit in Moses' seat).

Now of course I'm not talking about the good preachers and pastors of The Gospel that care for their congregations, and who stay in God's Word as written. God's Message here is against those that lie and claim He said, and God did not say. Those are about the "hireling" because they are not 'sent' by God, and thus don't really understand a lot of God's written Word, for it is closed off to them. But they act... like they know all about it, and do lie against the written Word of God to serve their own filthy lucre purpose. That also is why so many different seminary doctrines of men get started, because The Word is shut off to a lot of them, except for the basic principles of Christ regarding preaching of The Gospel. But past that, they are lost in much of God's Word and cannot even agree much with each other.

8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

I'm not making this up. God is angry about the lies those leaders in Christ's Church push whom He did not send.

(Continued...)
Your approach is not conducive for a cordial conversation.
Looks like you are spoiling for a fight.
 

Davy

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Your approach is not conducive for a cordial conversation.
Looks like you are spoiling for a fight.

Actually, it is those who reject... what God's written Word actually says, that are spoiling for a fight, as you say. I'm only repeating what our Heavenly Father said in HIS WORD, and showed how HIS WORD contradicts man's pre-trib rapture words.
 

JimKnox

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Actually, it is those who reject... what God's written Word actually says, that are spoiling for a fight, as you say. I'm only repeating what our Heavenly Father said in HIS WORD, and showed how HIS WORD contradicts man's pre-trib rapture words.
You remind me of the kid on the school yard who blames his victims when he got in trouble for fighting.
 

rebuilder 454

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Actually, it is those who reject... what God's written Word actually says, that are spoiling for a fight, as you say. I'm only repeating what our Heavenly Father said in HIS WORD, and showed how HIS WORD contradicts man's pre-trib rapture words.
"Before the flood, one taken, one left".
(Your doctrine, has the bizarre twist of Gods word to pervert that into a pretrib wicked man rapture and that half the planet is redeemed. )
Ridiculous

a babe in Christ with a bible can see right through it.

Lot removed pretrib.
( your doctrine does laughable things to what Jesus has spoken truthfully.)

Your doctrine is so busted.