Dolly Parton Believed in God, but Was It the God of the Bible?

[quietthinker]

Why do you reject the scriptures? @bdavidc posted scripture that should not be ignored. Are you of the belief that certain parts of the Bible aren't God-inspired?

It's not that I reject the scriptures TLHKAJ, it's that I have no interest in getting into a sh.t fight by slinging scriptures at each other which I see so often on the forum. My experience is that this practice does not change my mind or the mind of the other. It does not give birth to understanding, it rather gives birth to antagonism
If ones paradigm is faulty, one will not hear any scriptures that it is deemed do not support ones paradigm.

The question of what God's objective is needs to be established first. If that is not established, if it is misunderstood or sidestepped, one will inevitably arrive at a wrong conclusion.....and as we see so often, fight Scripture with scripture.

Soooo, let us establish God's objective first......and so I will ask, what do you think it is?

 

[quietthinker]

What exactly do you mean by having “ears and eyes open”? Open to what Scripture says, or open to adding something Scripture does not say because you have decided it must be true?

Calling me blind does not answer the question. You claimed that unbelieving, unrepentant sinners are already forgiven. I gave you Scripture showing that they are “condemned already,” that God’s wrath remains upon them, and that those who believe receive forgiveness. Now show me from Scripture where they possess forgiveness before they repent and believe.

“The story of Jesus” does not give anyone permission to rewrite the words of Jesus. Christ preached, “Repent ye, and believe the gospel” (Mark 1:15). He also said, “Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3).

Repentance and faith are not a Pharisaical list of religious works. They are God’s own command. “God...commandeth all men every where to repent” (Acts 17:30), and “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved” (Acts 16:31).

Having open eyes does not mean seeing beyond Scripture. It means submitting to what God has actually said. If your belief cannot be established from Scripture, accusing those who ask for Scripture of blindness proves nothing.

It comes down to this bdavidc, there are two perspectives; God's perspective and man's perspective. Man's perspective is self centred. Everything radiates from himself and his assumptions are the reference point to evaluate what he sees. Man's objective is himself.

God's reference point is the other, ie his creation. God is other centred. God is not self centred. How do I know this? By observing Jesus; his words and actions.

A small digression; The war in heaven was initiated by an alternative perspective. (Lucifers perspective) It resulted in rebellion. This Earth is Lucifers territory and its inhabitants naturally his subjects. We naturally are self interested, ie me, myself and I. We naturally reflect Lucifers objective.

Now I will ask you as I asked TLHKAJ, What do you see as God's objective?
I am asking you this because I have no interest in lecturing or preaching at you. I would rather we establish the CORE of our understanding because it is critical in HOW we see.

 

[PeterAndroz]

It's not that I reject the scriptures TLHKAJ, it's that I have no interest in getting into a sh.t fight by slinging scriptures at each other which I see so often on the forum. My experience is that this practice does not change my mind or the mind of the other. It does not give birth to understanding, it rather gives birth to antagonism
If ones paradigm is faulty, one will not hear any scriptures that it is deemed do not support ones paradigm.

The question of what God's objective is needs to be established first. If that is not established, if it is misunderstood or sidestepped, one will inevitably arrive at a wrong conclusion.....and as we see so often, fight Scripture with scripture.

Soooo, let us establish God's objective first......and so I will ask, what do you think it is?

"""Soooo, let us establish God's objective first...."""
1 Tim 2:3-4 Who will have all men to be saved,
..
1st
Must trust & believe in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ 1 Cor 15:1-4
Who here rejects that ?

 

[quietthinker]

"""Soooo, let us establish God's objective first...."""
1 Tim 2:3-4 Who will have all men to be saved,
..
1st
Must trust & believe in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ 1 Cor 15:1-4
Who here rejects that ?

I say trust is born of trustworthiness. One can subscribe to a proscribed idea of what one should believe but that does not constitute trust.
There are many belief systems/ religions in the World....all telling you what you should believe in order to get the 'goodies' so to speak.....from following the 'right' football team to the 'right' political party, to being in the 'right' denomination to belonging to the
'right' race/ ethnicity
Another question related to the previous, why would/ should one trust? ....and why should I trust God if in the end he is going to keep most people alive just so he can fry them for eternity ....all for for 70 yrs of rebellion? that's not even fair in fallen human terms

To illustrate, if I were to say to a young woman, if you choose to marry me I'll give you fame, fortune and glory but if you choose not to I'll have to blow your brains out. What do you think we'd do to someone who proposed this? You can bet we'd send them to the nut house.

The Cosmic question at play is what is the truth of the character of God. It was God's character misrepresented in the beginning. The serpent implied to Eve that God was not trustworthy. Saying it another way is, God is withholding something (the best) from you.

 

[Marvelloustime]

again and as usual its always the accusation card .
This generation has fallen in love with a harlots love and her judge not correct not nonsense .
THEN you still have the ability to see who evil has taken over society and some churches
AND YET WONDER how this can be . HELLO the evil came in and was allowed
to remain DUE TO THE VICTIM card and the judge not card .
YOU people ran off the only men who even tried to stop the leaven from taking over .
GUESS you all are waiting on TRUMP to save the day . Just like the left waits on the next big election .
YET neither sides realizes THEY are of the same spirit and lead you all to the same solution .
Cursed is the man , OR in your case woman , who trusts and hopes in men .
Just remember I DID try and get you to get back into JUST the bible . I sure seem to notice
YOU AINT responding TO THAT AT ALL .

@amigo de christo

 

[bdavidc]

It comes down to this bdavidc, there are two perspectives; God's perspective and man's perspective. Man's perspective is self centred. Everything radiates from himself and his assumptions are the reference point to evaluate what he sees. Man's objective is himself.

God's reference point is the other, ie his creation. God is other centred. God is not self centred. How do I know this? By observing Jesus; his words and actions.

A small digression; The war in heaven was initiated by an alternative perspective. (Lucifers perspective) It resulted in rebellion. This Earth is Lucifers territory and its inhabitants naturally his subjects. We naturally are self interested, ie me, myself and I. We naturally reflect Lucifers objective.

Now I will ask you as I asked TLHKAJ, What do you see as God's objective?
I am asking you this because I have no interest in lecturing or preaching at you. I would rather we establish the CORE of our understanding because it is critical in HOW we see.

You still have not answered the question. Where does Scripture say unbelieving, unrepentant sinners already possess forgiveness? Instead of providing a passage, you have shifted into a lecture about perspectives. Calling your position “God’s perspective” does not make it God’s perspective. You have to establish it from His Word.

You ask what I see as God’s objective. Concerning salvation, Scripture says God sent His Son “that the world through him might be saved” (John 3:17). The very next verse says, “He that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18). God’s saving purpose does not cancel His stated judgment against unbelief. You cannot appeal to His love while setting aside what He says about the sinner’s condition.

Your contrast between a self-centred humanity and an exclusively “other centred” God is also inadequate. God loves sinners, but He also acts for His own name and glory. “For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it ... and I will not give my glory unto another” (Isaiah 48:11). Jesus prayed, “Father, glorify thy name” (John 12:28). God’s concern for His glory is not sinful human selfishness. Your categories do not define Him.

And observing Jesus means listening to what He actually said. He preached, “Repent ye, and believe the gospel” (Mark 1:15), and warned, “Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3). Those words are part of His love and truth too. You do not get to construct a picture of Jesus that leaves out His warnings.

Bringing Satan’s rebellion into the discussion does not establish your claim about forgiveness either. Humanity’s bondage to sin explains our need for salvation. It does not prove everyone already possesses it. Acts 10:43 states plainly, “Through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” That is the issue you keep avoiding.

I have no interest in accepting your imagination as the missing key to understanding God. The core of this discussion is whether we submit our beliefs to Scripture or reshape Scripture around our beliefs. Asking you to support your teaching with God’s Word is not self-centredness or spiritual blindness.

You say you do not want to lecture me, but you have spent your reply explaining why my perspective is supposedly wrong without answering the biblical objection. Enough of the diversion. Show where Scripture says unbelieving, unrepentant sinners already possess forgiveness, or stop presenting that claim as God’s truth.

 

[quietthinker]

You still have not answered the question. Where does Scripture say unbelieving, unrepentant sinners already possess forgiveness? Instead of providing a passage, you have shifted into a lecture about perspectives. Calling your position “God’s perspective” does not make it God’s perspective. You have to establish it from His Word.

You ask what I see as God’s objective. Concerning salvation, Scripture says God sent His Son “that the world through him might be saved” (John 3:17). The very next verse says, “He that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18). God’s saving purpose does not cancel His stated judgment against unbelief. You cannot appeal to His love while setting aside what He says about the sinner’s condition.

Your contrast between a self-centred humanity and an exclusively “other centred” God is also inadequate. God loves sinners, but He also acts for His own name and glory. “For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it ... and I will not give my glory unto another” (Isaiah 48:11). Jesus prayed, “Father, glorify thy name” (John 12:28). God’s concern for His glory is not sinful human selfishness. Your categories do not define Him.

And observing Jesus means listening to what He actually said. He preached, “Repent ye, and believe the gospel” (Mark 1:15), and warned, “Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3). Those words are part of His love and truth too. You do not get to construct a picture of Jesus that leaves out His warnings.

Bringing Satan’s rebellion into the discussion does not establish your claim about forgiveness either. Humanity’s bondage to sin explains our need for salvation. It does not prove everyone already possesses it. Acts 10:43 states plainly, “Through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” That is the issue you keep avoiding.

I have no interest in accepting your imagination as the missing key to understanding God. The core of this discussion is whether we submit our beliefs to Scripture or reshape Scripture around our beliefs. Asking you to support your teaching with God’s Word is not self-centredness or spiritual blindness.

You say you do not want to lecture me, but you have spent your reply explaining why my perspective is supposedly wrong without answering the biblical objection. Enough of the diversion. Show where Scripture says unbelieving, unrepentant sinners already possess forgiveness, or stop presenting that claim as God’s truth.

Your focus bdavidc as evidenced by your repeated emphasis on what man needs to do reveals your trajectory.
You ask me again and again for scripture. I am surprised you are unfamiliar with God's nature so here are some scriptures either to enlighten or remind you of God's priorities.

Romans 5:6-10
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

Romans 5:15-19
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ! Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[amigo de christo]

You still have not answered the question. Where does Scripture say unbelieving, unrepentant sinners already possess forgiveness? Instead of providing a passage, you have shifted into a lecture about perspectives. Calling your position “God’s perspective” does not make it God’s perspective. You have to establish it from His Word.

You ask what I see as God’s objective. Concerning salvation, Scripture says God sent His Son “that the world through him might be saved” (John 3:17). The very next verse says, “He that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18). God’s saving purpose does not cancel His stated judgment against unbelief. You cannot appeal to His love while setting aside what He says about the sinner’s condition.

Your contrast between a self-centred humanity and an exclusively “other centred” God is also inadequate. God loves sinners, but He also acts for His own name and glory. “For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it ... and I will not give my glory unto another” (Isaiah 48:11). Jesus prayed, “Father, glorify thy name” (John 12:28). God’s concern for His glory is not sinful human selfishness. Your categories do not define Him.

And observing Jesus means listening to what He actually said. He preached, “Repent ye, and believe the gospel” (Mark 1:15), and warned, “Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3). Those words are part of His love and truth too. You do not get to construct a picture of Jesus that leaves out His warnings.

Bringing Satan’s rebellion into the discussion does not establish your claim about forgiveness either. Humanity’s bondage to sin explains our need for salvation. It does not prove everyone already possesses it. Acts 10:43 states plainly, “Through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” That is the issue you keep avoiding.

I have no interest in accepting your imagination as the missing key to understanding God. The core of this discussion is whether we submit our beliefs to Scripture or reshape Scripture around our beliefs. Asking you to support your teaching with God’s Word is not self-centredness or spiritual blindness.

You say you do not want to lecture me, but you have spent your reply explaining why my perspective is supposedly wrong without answering the biblical objection. Enough of the diversion. Show where Scripture says unbelieving, unrepentant sinners already possess forgiveness, or stop presenting that claim as God’s truth.

That be the issue all right and he sure is ducking it too .
Reminds me of a ground squirrel and every time it sees a human it ducks quickly right back into its hole for safety .
As many now when SCRIPS are brought duck and run into their hole of duck n dodge and play vicitim card .
Every warning to every promise is all part of the love of GOD . HE warns for he desires repentance
YET many seem to ground squirrel his warnings and promote rather a false love scenario , that love
is to their own d estruction too . cause that love AINT OF GOD or HIS CHRIST .
And how do i know this love is not of God , not of Christ . IT MAKES VOID his warnings and His words
in favor of lies and etc , in favor of a love that is of the world but claimed by men to be OF GOD . The end draws near my friend .
The inquity ripens in the sour bud and the lie called love and its peace that DENIED the dire need to BELIEVE ON JESUS
is what more and more now clambor in bed with . But it be the love of a harlot . And that will not be to their good at all .

 

[amigo de christo]

Your focus bdavidc as evidenced by your repeated emphasis on what man needs to do reveals your trajectory.
You ask me again and again for scripture. I am surprised you are unfamiliar with God's nature so here are some scriptures either to enlighten or remind you of God's priorities.

Romans 5:6-10
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

Romans 5:15-19
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ! Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

our focus bdavidc as evidenced by your repeated emphasis on what man needs to do reveals your trajectory .
That trajectory did you say and that repeated emphasis on what man needs to do .................
Well lets see what paul went about doing as did peter and others as HAD CHRIST .
But sirs what must i DO to be saved . I dont remember pual saying as you do
HE and silas said , YE MUST BELIEVE ON JESUS . you see what one does is gonna for sure decide the fact
of their trajectory . Those who BELIEVE JESUS , very good end , they are saved .
Those wh ofail not to BELIEVE ON HIM or HIS WORDS , real bad end to their own destruction .
I do not know exactly what this false love did to this church age , OTHER THAN LEAD IT AWAY FROM GOD , HIS LOVE , HIS TRUTH .
But man they sure did buy into it . And now if a man even says YE MUST BELEIVE
this so called love nimords of a we are one world , tell them THATS LEGALISM TOO . something has went wrong
and i aint just talking about the world , cause i know its been wrong , i mean within christendom too .

 

[amigo de christo]

I say trust is born of trustworthiness. One can subscribe to a proscribed idea of what one should believe but that does not constitute trust.
There are many belief systems/ religions in the World....all telling you what you should believe in order to get the 'goodies' so to speak.....from following the 'right' football team to the 'right' political party, to being in the 'right' denomination to belonging to the
'right' race/ ethnicity
Another question related to the previous, why would/ should one trust? ....and why should I trust God if in the end he is going to keep most people alive just so he can fry them for eternity ....all for for 70 yrs of rebellion? that's not even fair in fallen human terms

To illustrate, if I were to say to a young woman, if you choose to marry me I'll give you fame, fortune and glory but if you choose not to I'll have to blow your brains out. What do you think we'd do to someone who proposed this? You can bet we'd send them to the nut house.

The Cosmic question at play is what is the truth of the character of God. It was God's character misrepresented in the beginning. The serpent implied to Eve that God was not trustworthy. Saying it another way is, God is withholding something (the best) from you.

look again at your second sentence . now in part their is truth because many can c liam to BLEIEVE
and yet not trust in HIS WORDS and thus they do NOT BLEIEVE HIM and at most beleive only in a jesus and a love
created of men and not OF GOD .
But lets make this real clear .
WHAT ONE TRULY BELIEVES is what and who ONE truly trusts and trusted in ..............whether it be GOD or men
Christ or an antichrist .
And remember no LOVE OF GOD , NO GRACE OF GOD , NO SPIRIT of GOD
would e ver have rejoiced in a lie , made void Some or any of HIS sayings .
FOR CHARITY REJOICES ONLY in THE TRUTH . and me oh my YOU GOTS TO KNOW the WORDS of GOD
thus of HIS CHRIST are THE TRUTH . yet many seem to rejoice in a love , believe in a love , in a grace
THAT rather rejoices in lies , in sins , in unbelief . Now that aint gonna bode well for those ON JESUS day .
SO seeing i desire only good for this people and not their destruction , WELL that is why i do warn
and that is why i continually plead for all to GET THINESELF into BIBLE again .

 

[Marvelloustime]

look again at your second sentence . now in part their is truth because many can c liam to BLEIEVE
and yet not trust in HIS WORDS and thus they do NOT BLEIEVE HIM and at most beleive only in a jesus and a love
created of men and not OF GOD .
But lets make this real clear .
WHAT ONE TRULY BELIEVES is what and who ONE truly trusts and trusted in ..............whether it be GOD or men
Christ or an antichrist .
And remember no LOVE OF GOD , NO GRACE OF GOD , NO SPIRIT of GOD
would e ver have rejoiced in a lie , made void Some or any of HIS sayings .
FOR CHARITY REJOICES ONLY in THE TRUTH . and me oh my YOU GOTS TO KNOW the WORDS of GOD
thus of HIS CHRIST are THE TRUTH . yet many seem to rejoice in a love , believe in a love , in a grace
THAT rather rejoices in lies , in sins , in unbelief . Now that aint gonna bode well for those ON JESUS day .
SO seeing i desire only good for this people and not their destruction , WELL that is why i do warn
and that is why i continually plead for all to GET THINESELF into BIBLE again .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

our focus bdavidc as evidenced by your repeated emphasis on what man needs to do reveals your trajectory .
That trajectory did you say and that repeated emphasis on what man needs to do .................
Well lets see what paul went about doing as did peter and others as HAD CHRIST .
But sirs what must i DO to be saved . I dont remember pual saying as you do
HE and silas said , YE MUST BELIEVE ON JESUS . you see what one does is gonna for sure decide the fact
of their trajectory . Those who BELIEVE JESUS , very good end , they are saved .
Those wh ofail not to BELIEVE ON HIM or HIS WORDS , real bad end to their own destruction .
I do not know exactly what this false love did to this church age , OTHER THAN LEAD IT AWAY FROM GOD , HIS LOVE , HIS TRUTH .
But man they sure did buy into it . And now if a man even says YE MUST BELEIVE
this so called love nimords of a we are one world , tell them THATS LEGALISM TOO . something has went wrong
and i aint just talking about the world , cause i know its been wrong , i mean within christendom too .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

That be the issue all right and he sure is ducking it too .
Reminds me of a ground squirrel and every time it sees a human it ducks quickly right back into its hole for safety .
As many now when SCRIPS are brought duck and run into their hole of duck n dodge and play vicitim card .
Every warning to every promise is all part of the love of GOD . HE warns for he desires repentance
YET many seem to ground squirrel his warnings and promote rather a false love scenario , that love
is to their own d estruction too . cause that love AINT OF GOD or HIS CHRIST .
And how do i know this love is not of God , not of Christ . IT MAKES VOID his warnings and His words
in favor of lies and etc , in favor of a love that is of the world but claimed by men to be OF GOD . The end draws near my friend .
The inquity ripens in the sour bud and the lie called love and its peace that DENIED the dire need to BELIEVE ON JESUS
is what more and more now clambor in bed with . But it be the love of a harlot . And that will not be to their good at all .

@amigo de christo

 

[markalan]

Show where Scripture says unbelieving, unrepentant sinners already possess forgiveness

I come down somewhere in between both sides of this debate.

Jesus death and resurrection atoned for the sins of the whole world
He is the propitiation [atoning sacrifice] for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

God does not just suddenly forgive when a person repents ... in God's omniscience, forgiveness is an eternal attribute (Rev 17:8) ... it is just a matter of an individual realizing it and accepting it (Acts 2:38).

If a person chooses to reject God's forgiveness they are lost