Revelation 12: 13-17 A Future Jewish Persecution

[Revelation study]

The Book Of Revelation For The World Today

The Bible has already revealed why Israel is at the center of Satan’s fury, and why a persecution greater than anything the world has ever seen is still ahead? Revelation 12 pulls back the curtain on Satan’s final assault against Israel, the Antichrist’s coming war, and God’s miraculous intervention.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The Book Of Revelation For The World Today

The Bible has already revealed why Israel is at the center of Satan’s fury, and why a persecution greater than anything the world has ever seen is still ahead? Revelation 12 pulls back the curtain on Satan’s final assault against Israel, the Antichrist’s coming war, and God’s miraculous intervention.

Revelation 12 and 13 are two halves of a 7 year period. In the first half, Israel is being protected, but who does the devil go after in 12:17? Christians! It is the second half of the 7 year period of time before the Millennium that the Antichrist and false prophet persecute both Jews and Christians, but the Jews are now Christians also, Romans 11:26

 

[Davy]

Yeah... it's the deceived Dispensationalists again. They believe they won't be here for the "great tribulation", so they teach the un-Biblical idea that it will only be the unbelieving Jews in Israel that will be subject to Satan's wrath.

 

[ScottA]

The Book Of Revelation For The World Today

The Bible has already revealed why Israel is at the center of Satan’s fury, and why a persecution greater than anything the world has ever seen is still ahead? Revelation 12 pulls back the curtain on Satan’s final assault against Israel, the Antichrist’s coming war, and God’s miraculous intervention.

You are right to put a question mark after your first sentence. But then you blow it by making claims as if you know the answer to your own question.

Well, you don't (know the answer). You go from an admitted position of questioning, to speculate what you first questioned, showing that you are obviously confused. But I don't mean to criticize, but to correct, that the actual truth be known.

The book of Revelation is a revelation of what occurred "before the foundation of the world" (just like "the Lamb slain")--which throughout history is only revealed. The book of Revelation is the final word, a wrap-up of things to be revealed--except for "the mystery of God would be finished as He declared to His servants the prophets." Which is to say, those things that were sealed during the history of the world while most things were being revealed--only the revelation of those things that were sealed would be the "finish."

Are you here to discuss it, or just to dump your speculations and claims?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You are right to put a question mark after your first sentence. But then you blow it by making claims as if you know the answer to your own question.

Well, you don't (know the answer). You go from an admitted position of questioning, to speculate what you first questioned, showing that you are obviously confused. But I don't mean to criticize, but to correct, that the actual truth be known.

The book of Revelation is a revelation of what occurred "before the foundation of the world" (just like "the Lamb slain")--which throughout history is only revealed. The book of Revelation is the final word, a wrap-up of things to be revealed--except for "the mystery of God would be finished as He declared to His servants the prophets." Which is to say, those things that were sealed during the history of the world while most things were being revealed--only the revelation of those things that were sealed would be the "finish."

Are you here to discuss it, or just to dump your speculations and claims?

Wrong again! We are discussing teh Word of God on these threads, not the word of Scott A.

 

[ScottA]

Wrong again! We are discussing teh Word of God on these threads, not the word of Scott A.

True. You are wrong again. I was not discussing the word of ScottA.

 

[Davy]

True. You are wrong again. I was not discussing the word of ScottA.

Oh, but yes... you were.

Christ's Book of Revelation is specifically about events that are prophesied to happen in the latter days close to the 'end'... of this world.

This is why even in Christ's seven Messages to the seven 'historical' Churches in Asia are still in effect today as patterns for ALL Christian Churches all the way to the end of this world.

That's why we can see Jesus' speaking of events in those Messages that only will happen at the end of this world, and involving His future coming. And those are impossible... to miss, if one reads them for theirself.

But for those who do not read and understand them in simplicity, it then becomes easy to tell that those are just following what some man or book told them think, and by that they admit they don't have the brain power to think for themselves, which is so... sad, because Lord Jesus made His Word easy to understand for those who stay in it.

 

[ScottA]

Oh, but yes... you were.

That is a lie.

 

[Davy]

That is a lie.

Nope, not a lie. You were doing the Origen of Alexandria thing, trying to treat God's Word like man's philosophy, creating allegories in The Word where there isn't one. I'll break it down for other brethren here that need to understand your false rhetoric...

You stated, and I quote:

The book of Revelation is a revelation of what occurred "before the foundation of the world" (just like "the Lamb slain")--which throughout history is only revealed. The book of Revelation is the final word, a wrap-up of things to be revealed--except for "the mystery of God would be finished as He declared to His servants the prophets." Which is to say, those things that were sealed during the history of the world while most things were being revealed--only the revelation of those things that were sealed would be the "finish."​

Even with your very first statement where you claim Christ's Book of Revelation is about events that ALREADY occurred 'before the foundation of the world', you attempt to throw Revelation BACKWARDS IN TIME when the majority of its written events are actually for the VERY END OF THIS WORLD. And you try to use that "the Lamb slain" phrase to do that with, which is trying to create an allegory for Revelation that does NOT exist. Why do I say that? Simple, because the Book of Revelation is Christ Jesus' Book of Revelation that He gave through His servant John. It is NOT John's revelation. And Revelation 1 specifically tells us it is given to Christ's Church about events soon to happen, meaning future to Apostle John's day.

Then your next statement is really wild... that those things sealed during the history of the world while most things were being revealed, is like can't make up your mind, either they have been sealed until Christ's giving of His Revelation with opening the Seals, like it shows as written in Revelation 5 & 6, or they are still sealed today and won't be unsealed until your "finish" idea.

So it's not that difficult to see how you chop up Christ's Book of Revelation to create confusion.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yeah... it's the deceived Dispensationalists again. They believe they won't be here for the "great tribulation", so they teach the un-Biblical idea that it will only be the unbelieving Jews in Israel that will be subject to Satan's wrath.

There are no postrib rapture verses, so you have no point

 

[Davy]

There are no postrib rapture verses, so you have no point

You only made an AFFIRMATION, which is NOT Scripture proof.

An affirmation is a WISH... or HOPE... that something is true. It is not proof. So if I say the color of the sun is blue, that's just an affirmation, not proof.

So try again.

 

[ScottA]

Revelation BACKWARDS IN TIME

Yes, absolutely!

Revelation 13:8​

All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.​

 

[Davy]

There are no postrib rapture verses, so you have no point

And I have already shown in many threads on this Forum when those like you throw up your vain excuses in support of a non-existent Pre-trib Rapture being written in God's Word. I have given direct... proof, from Lord Jesus Christ Himself, showing His coming to gather His Church will be POST-TRIBULATIONAL TIMING.

It is written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 for example, Words by Lord Jesus Christ. And those Scripture align PERFECTLY with the timing that Apostle Paul also showed for when Jesus comes to gather His FAITHFUL Church in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.

But YOU... have said NOTHING about those Scriptures I have given as Biblical proof for a POST-TRIBULATION coming by Jesus to gather His Church.

 

[ScottA]

There are no postrib rapture verses, so you have no point

All of scripture declares the great tribulation placed upon the Lamb before the foundation of the world (of which there can be none greater), wherein each is "caught up", "Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt", "but each one in his own order." Within the times of this world, the clear delineation of the timing, is "we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep", and "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual."

 

[rebuilder 454]

And I have already shown in many threads on this Forum when those like you throw up your vain excuses in support of a non-existent Pre-trib Rapture being written in God's Word. I have given direct... proof, from Lord Jesus Christ Himself, showing His coming to gather His Church will be POST-TRIBULATIONAL TIMING.

It is written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 for example, Words by Lord Jesus Christ. And those Scripture align PERFECTLY with the timing that Apostle Paul also showed for when Jesus comes to gather His FAITHFUL Church in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.

But YOU... have said NOTHING about those Scriptures I have given as Biblical proof for a POST-TRIBULATION coming by Jesus to gather His Church.

The best you can do is 2 verses.

( ONE of them actually supports a pretrib rapture)
So comical

It is Hilarious that you bring such weakness into the debate.

I got over 8 verses

8, against your one, very weak one.

....and still you sail on in damage control with that hole in your doctrine a school bus can fit through.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You only made an AFFIRMATION, which is NOT Scripture proof.

An affirmation is a WISH... or HOPE... that something is true. It is not proof. So if I say the color of the sun is blue, that's just an affirmation, not proof.

So try again.

List your verses....so embarrasing.

Pretend you don't hate me and present your argument to convert me to your theory of a postrib rapture.

Watch how your own presentation goes.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yeah... it's the deceived Dispensationalists again. They believe they won't be here for the "great tribulation", so they teach the un-Biblical idea that it will only be the unbelieving Jews in Israel that will be subject to Satan's wrath.

Factor in that the AC will destroy billions.
( ahem....the innumerable number THAT WERE KILLED BY THE AC, and DEPICTED IN HEAVEN as dirty robe believers [ the 5 foolish virgins])
And from there you can beging to SUDDENLY realize , you will indeed miss the rapture, but none of you starring at the soles of my feet while I am going up, WILL MAKE IT THROUGH THE GT.
All of you will die.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Revelation 12 and 13 are two halves of a 7 year period. In the first half, Israel is being protected, but who does the devil go after in 12:17? Christians! It is the second half of the 7 year period of time before the Millennium that the Antichrist and false prophet persecute both Jews and Christians, but the Jews are now Christians also, Romans 11:26

Yep.
All believers left behind, are martyred in the trib. Martyred by Satan, as you indicated.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

True. You are wrong again. I was not discussing the word of ScottA.

Yeah you were. Because the Word of God in Revelation and the Olivet discourse as well as many of the OT prophets speak of a future time of intense persecution.

 

[ScottA]

Yeah you were. Because the Word of God in Revelation and the Olivet discourse as well as many of the OT prophets speak of a future time of intense persecution.

You don't understand.

The point was made that "a persecution greater than anything the world has ever seen is still ahead?" as a question. But "greater than anything the world has ever seen" is language of the "great tribulation." Borrowed, or stolen, or calling them equal--doesn't matter--that is not what the scriptures say (even if you too think so). To the contrary, that is a complete misrepresentation of what Christ referred to, saying the days would be "as the days of Noah"--which is actually what is written and what was to come.

"Persecutions" on the other hand, were to come here and there before various kings, synagogues, and leaders. Meaning, "a persecution greater than anything the world has ever seen is still ahead"--is pure hype.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I addressed the error of the best of those, that of assuming that what is written of "great tribulation" applied to "persecutions." Either way, he was wrong.