A WAR IS COMING, BUT IT WON’T BE FOUGHT ON EARTH.
- Thread starter Revelation study
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
No Rev 12:3-4 does not compare Satan to the morning star! The stars of heaven can be lights in the firmament of heaven created the third day, or more likely they are reference to sons of God called twelve stars in the crown upon the head of the woman that brought fourth the man child (Jesus). It is the third part of them, as stars of heaven whom the great dragon cast down to the earth just as the child was about to be born. Nowhere in Scripture can we find angels called stars.
Satan is who he has always been from the beginning when as the serpent he shows himself to be the murderer and liar just as God says he has always been.
John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Ge 3:1 ¶ Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Ge 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Ge 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Ge 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Ge 3:6 ¶ And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
2 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Revelation 12:9 (KJV) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Yes, according to Rev 12 Satan and his angels (demonic spirit beings) were cast out of heaven by Michael and the angels of God when Christ came to earth a man.
Satan is granted occasional visits to heaven (Job 2:6).
Revelation 12:7-7 is one of those visits, at a time future to today, when he knows his time is short (Revelation 12:12).
You're assuming the sons of God and Satan present themselves before the LORD in heaven. The passage makes no mention of heaven. The passage indicates both the sons of God are on earth and Satan himself "going to and from in the EARTH, and walking up and down in it."
Job 2:1 ¶ Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
Job 2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
Man presents themselves before the LORD when we bow down before Him to worship.
Psalm 95:6 (KJV) O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You are still... confused, or just flat reject what God's written Word says...
Rev 12:10
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."
KJV
The above in 'red' is proof that Revelation 12:7 war in Heaven has not happened yet.
Satan today still stands as our "accuser" at God's Throne in Heaven, and will remain so until that war in Revelation 12:7 with his casting out of the heavenly dimension entirely, and not allowed back in.
Still to this day, Satan is allowed to walk up and down heaven and the earth. His actual home is in the heavenly, because that is where the pit of hell is (i.e., Hades, the holding place of the wicked in Paradise across the great fixed gulf, per Luke 16).
Don't you guys read your Bible? The heavenly dimension, another dimension of existence other than this earthly dimension, is shown early in God's Word. When Adam and Eve sinned, God placed flaming cheribim around the Tree of Life to prevent flesh man from access. That is when God MOVED His Paradise, i.e., His Garden of Eden OFF THIS EARTH to that other dimension called the 'Heavenly', an invisible dimension behind a veil (See Genesis 3).
No, it is NOT proof! It is a denial of the plainly written text telling us the war in heaven between the forces of good and evil spirits took place when the man child (Christ Jesus) was born.
Satan has always been the accuser from the beginning, where he is called the "serpent" who deceived the woman and brought sin and death through sin into God's glorious creation.
You've yet to show biblical proof that Satan has ever been called a "cherub"! Once again, Ezekiel is speaking to a man, not a spiritual being called Satan.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Right, he is the accuser and still is until the GT starts, then he no longer has to go back and forth and accuse us, he possesses his Antichrist to go after Christians and Jews (whether the Church is raptured by then or not) - whoever is left behind. And the time is short, 3.5 years.
I lean towards the Church and Restrainer being out of the way from Him to do his thing - all sanctioned by God btw. God is sovereign. And it is part of His judgment upon the world and a test for those who were uncertain about Christ.
I can understand hell....which includes the bosom of Abraham or Paradise and also the holding place of the wicked as being in another dimension and not our limited 3D+time dimension ...but, taking the Garden of Eden off the earth? I suppose that's possible but I would consider that as speculation unless you have a verse to support your "theory" and gives it credence. (I'll even take something from Enoch, Jubilees, book of Giants, etc.)
Sorry. I disagree. In Ezekiel what happened to Satan is explained...
Ezekiel 28 has this to say about Satan...It speaks of Satan in a pre-fallen state.
‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty
13You were in Eden,
the garden of God.
Every kind of precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz, and diamond,
beryl, onyx, and jasper,
sapphire, turquoise, and emerald.
Your mountings and settings were crafted in gold,
prepared on the day of your creation.
14You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for I had ordained you.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15From the day you were created
you were blameless in your ways—
until wickedness was found in you.
How is this verse describing a human king?
The human king is operating under the power and influence of Satan. In the same manner we see Satan operated in the minds and hearts of man (Adam & Eve) at creation. Satan is the same throughout time given this earth whereby mankind might be eternally saved. It is not Satan, but mankind that was created with wisdom and perfection in beauty, who walked upon the stones in the garden of Eden until evil was found in them (Adam & Eve).
That does not mean the lamentation upon the king of Tyrus is that he might know what would become of the adversary called Satan. The lamentation is against him; king Tyrus!
Ezekiel 28:2 (KJV) Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
Ezekiel 28:11-12 (KJV) Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
King Tyrus, belonging to mankind was of the natural seed of Adam (man), therefore that which befell Adam & Eve, befalls all of mankind, including King Tyrus. Tyrus allowed himself to become corrupted and prideful in the same manner in which A&E did when they listened to the voice of evil and disobeyed God. This is why God sent His prophet to speak judgment through parable/lamentation against these spiritually fallen kings, announcing what would become of them and every man through pride and arrogance that allow themselves to be overcome by the deception of Satan. Just as the serpent in the garden had convinced A&E they too could become as a god, Satan operates through the same deception convincing these spiritually fallen kings that they too through pride and arrogance had become as God.
Cherub is defined imaginary figure. These imaginary figures are guardians of things of God, where God speaks with chosen people. (Consider the cherubim covering the ark of God in the Tabernacle) A&E were made guardians over all of creation in land, air and sea, including the tree of life that was in the center of the garden of Eden. In that sense yes Adam (humankind) was made cherub over the garden of Eden, God instructing him to dress and keep it.
Genesis 1:26 (KJV) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Genesis 2:15 (KJV) And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Once A&E disobeyed God, they were cast out of the garden of Eden, and God placed other cherubim before the tree of life, and a flaming sword to keep the way of the tree of life that no man would be able to take of it and live forever.
Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Ge 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Ge 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
The king is a MAN, created in the likeness and image of God. The kings have become fallen through pride and arrogance. So, we are given an example of what shall become of man who gives themselves over to evil as our first parents did. The parable/lamentation is NOT an example for us of what shall become of the adversary called Satan.
No, what is a stretch is taking these passages addressed to fallen man and imagining that it was Satan who was once good and became evil. This ignores the passages from the Bible telling us that Satan FROM THE BEGINNING is a liar, and murderer, even called the father of lies.
