No what you mean is the kid who throws a snowball at someone during recess and then as soon as that other kid starts to throw back the first kid calls out the teachers name so teacher sees snowball coming back and becomes the victim.....
What God Says About the False Pre-trib Rapture
- Thread starter Davy
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I believe pretty much everyone is set in their beliefs and nobodys gonna change anyones views..... so all the words on this site are in vain in those instances.. has anyone ever got someone to change their minds on something major?
ONLY Scripture is correct.
Working out what Scripture applies to who is what causes the arguments/confusion
You are partially correct, because when the coming "great tribulation" starts, each soul is going to be holding on to what they believe going into it, and during it. The pre-trib rapture doctors try to claim there will be 'tribulation saints', those who will convert to Jesus 'during'... the "great tribulation", and they point those mostly being unbelieving Jews going in. But God's Word shows they will continue in unbelief all the way up to Christ's future return, and when they see Him coming in the clouds, they will wish for the mountains and hills to fall upon them because of their shame of having rejected Jesus as Messiah (See Zechariah 12; Luke 23 about "Blessed are the barren...")
Per Amos 8, God revealed in the latter days He would send a famine in the land, not for bread or water, but for hearing The Word of God, looking everywhere for it and not finding it. That has an effect upon people today, as He has closed off the spiritual ears of many just for the end of this world.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
JimKnox
Active Member
Brother, those who believe a pre-trib rapture will harden their hearts and fall away when the storm (tribulation) comes and they're still here. Remember the account of Peter and the disciples in the boat? Jesus told them to get into the boat and go to the other side. And then the storm came. They lost sight of the fact it was Jesus who instructed them to get into the boat and go to the other side. They began to fear. And when they saw Jesus walking on the water, they didn't even recognize Him (except for Peter who chose to step out and walk on the stormy seas to Jesus).
But the thing that stands out to me is that the rest who were in the boat ...the Bible says their hearts were hardened. Why? Because Jesus didn't prevent the storm, perhaps? Because Jesus told them to get in the boat knowing there'd be a fierce storm that seemed as if it would take their lives? Believers aren't called to an easy life. All who live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. And in this life, we will have tribulation.
Jesus said that we should pray that we would be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are coming on the earth. But that doesn't mean escape=rapture. In the days of Noah, he and his family weren't taken up into Heaven. They were in a place of safety (on the earth) because Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
Just putting some thoughts out there ....things that come to mind as I read this thread.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Outside of personal attacks, can you admit your doctrine says: "before the flood, one is taken, and one left behind, ( your doctrines wicked man pretrib rapture)" is poorly thought out?.
I pretty much agree with what you say.
But there actually is more detail given us in His Word about events of the end that will unfold.
In Luke 17, Lord Jesus was actually warning about the first one 'taken', as when His disciples asked Him where, His answer points to the 'taken' being like a dead 'carcase' (Matt.24:28 version), gathered to wheresoever the fowls are, pointing to birds of prey. That may possibly suggest an event to mimic a pre-trib rapture of the deceived by the false-Messiah who comes first.
So I don't really think many brethren realize how serious a deception the false pre-trib rapture doctrine is.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Where was Noah before the flood ?
Where was Lot before Sodom burned?
Where was the Baby Jesus before herods slaughter?
Who is taken first In the virgin parable?
Im the Noah analogy as the water was rising, the ark took off and floated away while people were evacuating and seeking high ground. So Noah was taken first, like God chose in his pattern of gathering his people first.
Noah, lot, the baby Jesus, the wise virgins, ALL GATHERED FIRST.
But who is left behind?
THE FOOLISH VIRGINS.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Where was Noah before the flood ?
Where was Lot before Sodom burned?
Where was the Baby Jesus before herods slaughter?
Who is taken first In the virgin parable?
Im the Noah analogy as the water was rising, the ark took off and floated away while people were evacuating and seeking high ground. So Noah was taken first, like God chose in his pattern of gathering his people first.
Noah, lot, the baby Jesus, the wise virgins, ALL GATHERED FIRST.
But who is left behind?
THE FOOLISH VIRGINS.
Wow, I don't really think many brethren realize how serious a deception the false post-trib rapture doctrine is.
I don't know what estranged doctrine that YOU are talking about. What I've been talking about is what Lord Jesus Christ Himself showed in Luke 17 about the first one TAKEN is like a dead "carcase" to wheresoever the fowls are gathered.
Firstly, the Matthew 24 version of Jesus' answer in Luke 17:37...
Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV
Luke 17:34-37
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And he said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV
The false Pre-trib Rapture doctrine preaches that the first one TAKEN is about a rapture by Christ prior to the great tribulation. They then preach that those left behind go through the trib, and will fall into false worship. But my Lord Jesus Christ showed just the OPPOSITE of their pre-trib theory.
Therefore, I find it really hilarious, when those who HATE me for revealing what Lord Jesus actually said about being 'taken', they try to claim it is 'my' personal doctrine, when I'm only REPEATING what Lord Jesus Himself revealed in the above Scripture.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
BEFORE THE FLOOD.
That will never go away.
It is written by God.
One taken, one left behind BEFORE THE FLOOD.
No matter how much you wiggle, it is written down in Gods word.
One taken in the before the flood setting, one left behind in the before the flood setting.
YOUR DOCTRINE ( not the bible), has a wicked man taken to judgement and a righteous man left behind.
That is YOUR DOCTRINE.
So now you can see the made up folly of your wicked man pretrib rapture of half the planet.
You own it big time.
But it is what it is.
About all you can do is change the subject
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Where was Noah before the flood ?
Where was Lot before Sodom burned?
Where was the Baby Jesus before herods slaughter?
Who is taken first In the virgin parable?
In the Noah analogy as the water was rising, the ark took off and floated away while people were evacuating and seeking high ground. So Noah was taken first, like God chose in his pattern of gathering his people first.
Noah, lot, the baby Jesus, the wise virgins, ALL GATHERED FIRST.
But who is left behind?
THE FOOLISH VIRGINS.
You really think Gods word is wrong?
Wow, I don't really think many brethren realize how serious a deception the false post-trib rapture doctrine is.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Lot removed first. Wicked left behind
Noah loaded into the boat first. Wicked left behind clawing and banging on the boat.
The baby Jesus removed to Egypt first. Those left behind destroyed
The wise virgins removed first. Those left behind shut out and rejected
It does not make sense God would change his word to suit a doctrine
It does make sense that those reframing Gods faithfulness and pattern would, indeed be , left behind.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
take a look at who is left behind.
Lot removed first. Wicked left behind
Noah loaded into the boat first. Wicked left behind clawing and banging on the boat.
The baby Jesus removed to Egypt first. Those left behind destroyed
The wise virgins removed first. Those left behind shut out and rejected
Are you sure it is worth it,placing your faith in conjecture?
2 thess 2:1 the gathering together or rapture is discussed here..
2:2 tells us 2 things must happen before Jesus comes
2:3 those who believe Jesus comes before the falling away and the man of sin shows up (pre trip rapture) are decieved
For the most part those who are decieved will be those who fall away
As they will lose faith that Jesus isnt coming.... they will be faced with tribulation and not be ready mentally physically or spiritually....
Daniel 12:1 shows us that the book of life is opened just as the armies gather in the valley of decision.... you have them gather for war and the rapture happens some to everlasting life (saved) some to everlasting shame(unsaved)
Rev 14:15-16 shows us the thief Jesus coming to rapture his bride.
Rev 14:14-20 shows the gathering together (rapture) saved (15-16) unsaved (17-19) and result of war (20)
1.armies gather for war (dan 11:44-45)
2. Rapture happens (dan 12:1-2 and rev 14:14-16)
3.results of war (rev 14:19-20)
The man of sin comes before Jesus.... only believers can fall away (apostasia - strongs 646 sames as 647 something separative like a divorce)
Those who fall will fall like in a divorce and nonbelievers are never married to Christ.
The 10 virgins are all believers as only a believer is considered a virgin (bride)waiting for christs (groom)rapture, then to those who are pre trib believers is Jesus delayed they will fall away while others will keep the faith when Jesus shows up later than expected at the (tribulation rapture) ... since Jesus cant be delayed only those who believe falsely that Hes coming sooner than He really is will think Hes delayed.....and lose hope
Lukes faithful servant 12:45 also believes Jesus will be delayed and falls back to his old ways and then tribulation Jesus shows and he is appointed with the unbelievers just like the 5 unwise virgins..
Luke 12:40 tells us to be ready doing the work of a servant when he comes
5 wise virgins and faithful servant
Lukes faithful servant 12:45 also believes Jesus will be delayed and falls back to his old ways and then tribulation Jesus shows and he is appointed with the unbelievers just like the 5 unwise virgins..
Luke 12:40 tells us to be ready doing the work of a servant when he comes
5 wise virgins and faithful servant
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You forgot lukes faithful servant was also taken 12:42-44 while if that same servant instead decides to fall back to his old life he is appointed with the unbelievers..ofcourse this happens at the same time either your ready for Jesus the thief in the night (12:40) or your left at the rapture.... 5 wise virgins were ready and 5 unwise wernt....
This all shows 1 thing either your ready or not when Jesus comes.... jesus comes as a thief to believers not unbelievers.... I agree with you
454 huh.... my friends mom had a 67s55 with a 429 cobra jet, I was driving and got it up to 130 with plenty of pedal left and the steering wheel could be moved about 5 or 6 inches without the wheels moving... the news played thru my mind - mom: well I havent driven it over 50 in years and never thought my son would take it over 130.... that was the end of seeing how fast it could go.....
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