Who’s words are these?

[David in NJ]

None of that has anything to do with the assertion you made in the post I quoted.

On the contrary

 

[Matthias]

So, anyway … Jesus is speaking his God’s words.

 

[dak]

On the contrary

Matthew 12:35-37 ASV
35 The good man out of his good treasure bringeth forth good things: and the evil man out of his evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 And I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

 

[rwb]

You can imagine that Jewish monotheists are trinitarians but they aren’t.

Of course they aren't. Only Messianic Jews are trinitarian, believing in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Jews being monotheistic are still waiting for Messiah to come to redeem them, and therefore they have no Saviour. Since only God can eternally save, if we believe Jesus Christ is not God, like the Jews who cling to ONE God, we have no Saviour.

 

[rwb]

All scripture - OT and NT - is written from the perspective of Jewish monotheism.

That's nonsense! The NT is replete with verses pertaining to God being three, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

1Jo 5:6 ¶ This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1Jo 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jo 5:10 ¶ He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

 

[rwb]

My affiliation is with the Messiah; himself a Jewish monotheist, not a trinitarian.

How can you argue Jesus is monotheistic, since He plainly speaks of three being one God?

 

[rwb]

That’s a wise question. I was hoping that @PS95 would ask it. He might have if you hadn’t. I’m pleased that you did and consider it done on his behalf.

1. The Messiah’s Jewish monotheism is deemed heretical and is destroyed by other forms of monotheism.

2. United opposition to Jewish monotheism causes me to reexamine Jewish monotheism.

3. Jewish monotheism can’t be compromised with.



We have many things in common.

If you deny that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh, how can you be saved?

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

 

[Matthias]

How can you argue Jesus is monotheistic, since He plainly speaks of three being one God?

How can you think he isn’t when he speaks about his God?

 

[rwb]

How can you think he isn’t when he speaks about his God?

Yes, because He and His God are ONE! Like I've already said, if you do not believe Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh, how can you be saved?

 

[Matthias]

Yes, because He and His God are ONE! Like I've already said, if you do not believe Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh, how can you be saved?

Thanks.

“[Jesus] was a first-century Jewish monotheist.”

(N.T. Wright, Jesus And The Victory of God, p. 652)

This thread is about Jesus speaking the Father’s words.

 

[David in NJ]

Matthew 12:35-37 ASV
35 The good man out of his good treasure bringeth forth good things: and the evil man out of his evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 And I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the Promise of the Father, which you have heard from ME.
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

The FATHER
Called me to
HIS SON - The LORD JESUS CHRIST
The LORD prayed on my behalf to the FATHER
that i, by faith, should Receive the Baptism of
The HOLY SPIRIT

Have you read the Gospel of John?

 

[Matthias]

Jews being monotheistic …

I’m monotheistic.

… are still waiting for Messiah to come to redeem them, and therefore they have no Saviour.

I believe Jesus is the Messiah, Son of the living God. He is my savior and I’m waiting for him to return.

… like the Jews who cling to ONE God …

I “cling to ONE God” -> the God of the Jews; the God and Father of the lord Jesus Messiah.

Jesus speaks his words.

 

[rwb]

Thanks.

“[Jesus] was a first-century Jewish monotheist.”

(N.T. Wright, Jesus And The Victory of God, p. 652)

This thread is about Jesus speaking the Father’s words.

It sounds like you don't believe that Jesus knew that He, the Son of God was sent to be the Messiah Savior the prophets of Old foretell would come? Jesus came to forgive sins. Only the perfect So of God, being without sin able to lay down His life for sins. Though no man has seen physically seen God, we know that God dwells in us through God the Spirit sent from God the Son Jesus Christ.

Of course, Jesus spoke the words of the Father. Because He and His Father are ONE God, when we see (know) Jesus we see (know) the Father also.

I reject the doctrines espoused by NT Wright!

 

[Matthias]

It sounds like you don't believe that Jesus knew that He, the Son of God was sent to be the Messiah Savior the prophets of Old foretell would come?

He is, and I believe that he knew it.

Jesus came to forgive sins. Only the perfect So of God, being without sin able to lay down His life for sins. Though no man has seen physically seen God, we know that God dwells in us through God the Spirit sent from God the Son Jesus Christ.

Of course, Jesus spoke the words of the Father. Because He and His Father are ONE God, when we see (know) Jesus we see (know) the Father also.

I reject the doctrines espoused by NT Wright!

 

[rwb]

I’m monotheistic.

That's sad! Because if you deny Jesus is God come in the flesh you have no Savior.

I believe Jesus is the Messiah, Son of the living God. He is my savior and I’m waiting for him to return.

If this is true, why are you so tenaciously clinging to monotheism which denies Christ who has already come to give eternal life to whosoever believes on Him?

I “cling to ONE God” -> the God of the Jews; the God and Father of the lord Jesus Messiah.

In light of your previous statement, you contradict yourself! Not sure you even know what you believe???

 

[Matthias]

That's sad! Because if you deny Jesus is God come in the flesh you have no Savior.


If this is true, why are you so tenaciously clinging to monotheism which denies Christ who has already come to give eternal life to whosoever believes on Him?


In light of your previous statement, you contradict yourself! Not sure you even know what you believe???

Are you not monotheistic?

 

[dak]

And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the Promise of the Father, which you have heard from ME.
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

The FATHER
Called me to
HIS SON - The LORD JESUS CHRIST
The LORD prayed on my behalf to the FATHER
that i, by faith, should Receive the Baptism of
The HOLY SPIRIT

Have you read the Gospel of John?

Are you just blowing smoke now because you have no way of proving your assertion from the scripture? Go back and read your own assertion: if you do not even know that you made an assertion, (which is not taught anywhere in the scripture as far as I can tell), then there is no sense in continuing with this line of discussion.

You leave me with no choice but to count you as a liar and a fraud. Your claim that having the Holy Spirit makes you right about your false assertion only proves one thing: the actual source of your assertion via your own version of the Holy Spirit.

 

[dak]

“Jesus answered them, ‘Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.’”

(John 2:19, NASB)

Those are the words of the Father, by way of His one and only one-of-a-kind Logos-Son: His Testimony and Holy Spirit, whom He placed upon His Meshiah and Chosen One, who was and is the Anointed One. And the Meshiah himself, a man, is the body temple of both the Logos-Son and the Father to whom the Logos-Son belongs. The Father and His Testimony-Word-Spirit which abode upon and in Meshiah raised Meshiah from the dead. The Son speaks through the Meshiah many times and many places in the Gospel accounts, especially in the Gospel of Yohanne.

 

[Matthias]

If this is true, …

It is true.

… why are you so tenaciously clinging to monotheism which denies Christ who has already come to give eternal life to whosoever believes on Him?

Monotheism doesn’t deny Christ who has already come to give eternal life to whosoever believes on him.

 

[rwb]

Are you not monotheistic?

I believe that God is ONE consisting of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. You cannot separate them as you're trying to do. For man to become one with God, they must be born again. Without all three none could be born again. If man is not born again, we would never be one with God to live with Him forever. That is the desire of every man that has been born again through the Spirit OF God in us. God the Father, sent His Spirit into the woman to give life to God the Son. God the Son also now sends His Spirit, the same Spirit that gave life to Him, to give eternal life to whosoever believes on Him.