Who’s words are these?

[Matthias]

Thanks for the clarification. Since you already understand the Trinitarian framework, my only point was that the New Testament itself distributes the resurrection across Father, Son, and Spirit. For Christians, that isn’t three separate causes but one divine act of the one God who is triune. So while Jesus’ human nature truly experienced death, the divine Son remained fully alive, and Scripture speaks of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit together in the single work of raising Him. That’s the sense in which the resurrection is both monotheistic and Trinitarian at the same time.

I read the New Testament the same way that you do when I was a trinitarian. You explain that perspective well.

I’m sure you’re aware that God isn’t triune in Jewish monotheism.

 

[David in NJ]

There’s no question that Jesus spoke the words, but that’s not the question.

Who’s words are they? Who’s words was Jesus speaking?

“The person who does not love me does not obey me. The word which you hear isn’t mine, but the Father’s who sent me.”

(John 14:24, WEB)

Why does it matter? The dead don’t bodily resurrect themselves to life.

The God and Father of Jesus raised him from the dead.

i SEE what you are trying to do = AGAIN!

Here is why your attempt FAILS

“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

17“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

 

[Matthias]

i SEE what you are trying to do = AGAIN!

What is it that you think I’m trying to do?

Here is why your attempt FAILS

“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

17“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

 

[David in NJ]

What is it that you think I’m trying to do?

Disavow thru:
a.) separation based on errant application of yachid/one
b.) selective scripture to support your yachid/one
c.) disrespecting of the FATHER's words Spoken thru the WORD that was GOD and became flesh

 

[Moonwood]

I read the New Testament the same way that you do when I was a trinitarian. You explain that perspective well.

I’m sure you’re aware that God isn’t triune in Jewish monotheism.

I appreciate that, and yes — Jewish monotheism in its classical form isn’t triune. That’s exactly why the earliest Jewish followers of Jesus had to rethink their categories. They remained committed to one God, but they also had to account for the Father who sends, the Son who speaks and acts with divine authority, and the Spirit who is poured out and performs divine works. The Trinity isn’t a denial of Jewish monotheism; it’s the way the New Testament’s Jewish authors describe the one God in light of what they witnessed in Jesus and the Spirit. So when Christians speak of the resurrection as a Trinitarian act, we’re not adding something foreign to monotheism — we’re trying to be faithful to the way the New Testament itself portrays God’s action.

 

[Matthias]

Disavow thru:
a.) separation based on errant application of yachid/one
b.) selective scripture to support your yachid/one
c.) disrespecting of the FATHER's words Spoken thru the WORD that was GOD and became flesh

Thank you. I appreciate your feedback. It shows me, again, that you don’t know what I’m trying to do.

 

[Matthias]

i SEE what you are trying to do = AGAIN!

Here is why your attempt FAILS

“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

17“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

John 10:11-18.

You see this as Jesus saying that he will resurrect himself. Trinitarians, binitarians, and the majority of unitarians read it the same way. I’m a Jewish monotheist who believed Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, Son of God. (Not all Jewish monotheists do.) I don’t read the passage the way that trinitarians, binitarians, and the majority of unitarians do.

 

[Matthias]

I appreciate that, and yes — Jewish monotheism in its classical form isn’t triune. That’s exactly why the earliest Jewish followers of Jesus had to rethink their categories. They remained committed to one God, but they also had to account for the Father who sends, the Son who speaks and acts with divine authority, and the Spirit who is poured out and performs divine works. The Trinity isn’t a denial of Jewish monotheism; it’s the way the New Testament’s Jewish authors describe the one God in light of what they witnessed in Jesus and the Spirit. So when Christians speak of the resurrection as a Trinitarian act, we’re not adding something foreign to monotheism — we’re trying to be faithful to the way the New Testament itself portrays God’s action.

I have no doubt whatsoever that trinitarians are trying to remain faithful to the way the New Testament itself portrays God’s action. My apologies if you thought I was saying otherwise.

Have you read what Gregory of Nyssa said about Jewish monotheism?

 

[Moonwood]

I have no doubt whatsoever that trinitarians are trying to remain faithful to the way the New Testament itself portrays God’s action. My apologies if you thought I was saying otherwise.

Have you read what Gregory of Nyssa said about Jewish monotheism?

Thanks, I appreciate that. And no worries — I didn’t take your comments as dismissive. I know you’re engaging the text seriously. As for Gregory of Nyssa, yes — he’s actually one of the most interesting voices on this topic because he directly addresses the tension between Jewish monotheism and the Christian confession of Father, Son, and Spirit. Gregory argues that the early Jewish believers didn’t abandon monotheism but were compelled by the revelation in Christ to understand the one God in a more complex way. In his view, Jewish monotheism wasn’t wrong — it was incomplete until the Son and the Spirit were revealed in the economy of salvation. That’s why he insists that Christians still worship “one God,” but that this one God is known through three distinct persons acting inseparably in every divine work, including the resurrection.

If you’re bringing Gregory up because you see a contrast between his view and Jewish monotheism as you understand it, I’m happy to explore that with you. He’s one of the clearest examples of how early Christians tried to stay faithful to the monotheism they inherited while also taking seriously everything the New Testament says about the Father, Son, and Spirit.

 

[David in NJ]

John 10:11-18.

You see this as Jesus saying that he will resurrect himself. Trinitarians, binitarians, and the majority of unitarians read it the same way. I’m a Jewish monotheist who believed Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, Son of God. (Not all Jewish monotheists do.) I don’t read the passage the way that trinitarians, binitarians, and the majority of unitarians do.

Well of course!

That is why you cannot SEE ELOHIM THREE = ECHAD ELOHIM

 

[Matthias]

Well of course!

That is why you cannot SEE ELOHIM THREE = ECHAD ELOHIM

As I pointed out, binitarians and the majority of unitarians read the passage as you do. Your comment doesn’t account for them.

 

[David in NJ]

As I pointed out, binitarians and the majority of unitarians read the passage as you do. Your comment doesn’t account for them.

1 - The Holy Spirit quickens me to the WORD that was GOD and thus i write = John 16:13

2 - But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. - Hebrews 11:6

3- Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness

SHALOM in ECHAD ELOHIM

 

[Matthias]

1 - The Holy Spirit quickens me to the WORD that was GOD and thus i write = John 16:13

2 - But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. - Hebrews 11:6

3- Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness

SHALOM in ECHAD ELOHIM

I’ll leave it to the binitarians and unitarians to speak for themselves.

 

[dak]

That is why you cannot SEE ELOHIM THREE = ECHAD ELOHIM

SHALOM in ECHAD ELOHIM

Common sense translation according to your own statements:

"SHALOM in THREE ELOHIM". . .

 

[David in NJ]

Common sense translation according to your own statements:

"SHALOM in THREE ELOHIM". . .

Elohim made it very easy for those who desire His Word = Just count to 3

Elohim's Truth Begins in Genesis

Genesis 1:1 - "In the beginning Elohim...."
In the beginning
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית (bə·rê·šîṯ)
Preposition-b | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7225: 1) first, beginning, best, chief 1a) beginning 1b) first 1c) chief 1d) choice part

God
אֱלֹהִ֑ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God

Genesis 1:26 - "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness"

Shalom in Echad Elohim

 

[dak]

אֱלֹהִ֑ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God

Exactly :)

 

[David in NJ]

Exactly :)

The question and searching that every one who desires TRUTH must ask/seek from YHWH is this:

What Number is the Plurality of Elohim???

 

[dak]

The question and searching that every one who desires TRUTH must ask/seek from YHWH is this:

What Number is the Plurality of Elohim???

Who are you to speak for HE WHO IS AND WHO WAS AND WHO SHALL BE?

Prove your assertion.

 

[David in NJ]

Prove your assertion.

The FATHER
Called me to
HIS SON - The LORD JESUS CHRIST
The LORD prayed on my behalf to the FATHER
that i, by faith, should Receive the Baptism of
The HOLY SPIRIT

Who are you to speak for HE WHO IS AND WHO WAS AND WHO SHALL BE?

i am one of these by HIS Calling

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

 

[dak]

The FATHER
Called me to
HIS SON - The LORD JESUS CHRIST
The LORD prayed on my behalf to the FATHER
that i, by faith, should Receive the Baptism of
The HOLY SPIRIT


i am one of these by HIS Calling

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

None of that has anything to do with the assertion you made in the post I quoted.