Simple proof that the rapture occurs on the Last Day, which is a post tribulation rapture

[sondring7]

Douggg, pre-trib is interesting yet often a fiery topic to discuss with those who don't believe it.
I've read many posts here from the 'friendly' debates that rarely occur yet pre-trib remains as my position mainly because those in the trib can lose their salvation if they fail to do or not do what is required.
The ability to lose salvation in the trib contradicts the teachings of Paul so that to me teaches that Paul's method of Salvation ceases in the trib.
At this moment, entering Heaven is a gift and not a reward for effort, in the trib effort will be required to remain saved.

 

[Taken]

Sounds like story time, once upon a time, Aesops fables Lol!

Doubt you are the first to conclude Gods Divine Teachings are mere fables for your amusement.

 

[Taken]

Douggg, pre-trib is interesting yet often a fiery topic to discuss with those who don't believe it.
I've read many posts here from the 'friendly' debates that rarely occur yet pre-trib remains as my position mainly because those in the trib can lose their salvation if they fail to do or not do what is required.
The ability to lose salvation in the trib contradicts the teachings of Paul so that to me teaches that Paul's method of Salvation ceases in the trib.
At this moment, entering Heaven is a gift and not a reward for effort, in the trib effort will be required to remain saved.

Agree.
In brief…The Lord Jesus’, Appearance, Preaching, Opened a Door, to a New Better Testament…to Receive Salvation through Him.

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of abetter testament.

That Door Closes when He Removes His Saved Church from the Earth…
Rapture.

Rev. 3:
[7] And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Luke 13:
[25] When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ewq1938]

The apostasia/departing may be imminent but the rapture isn't. The rapture happens once the trib is over and the trib is 42 months long so until the trib starts we are always at least 42 months from the rapture.

 

[Truth7t7]

Doubt you are the first to conclude Gods Divine Teachings are mere fables for your amusement.

Divine Teachings?

More like John N. Darby & C.I. Scofields deception, they modern fathers of the "False" teachings

 

[sondring7]

Agree.
In brief…The Lord Jesus’, Appearance, Preaching, Opened a Door, to a New Better Testament…to Receive Salvation through Him.

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of abetter testament.

That Door Closes when He Removes His Saved Church from the Earth…
Rapture.

Rev. 3:
[7] And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Luke 13:
[25] When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Glory to God,
Taken

+++++That Door Closes when He Removes His Saved Church from the Earth…Rapture.

 

[Taken]

Divine Teachings?

More like John N. Darby & C.I. Scofields deception, they modern fathers of the "False" teachings

No need to knock at my door with your vague accusations and gaslighting.
No where did I attribute Divine teachings to Darby or Scofield.

 

[Truth7t7]

No need to knock at my door with your vague accusations and gaslighting.
No where did I attribute Divine teachings to Darby or Scofield.

Your belief in a pre-trib rapture is directly related to John N. Darby & C.I. Scofied, they're the modern fathers

You have a future immortal glorified Jesus returning to this earth, while mortal humans are dying around him, now thats Malarkey

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement dissolving this earth by fire .(The End)

 

[Taken]

Your belief in a pre-trib rapture is directly related to John N. Darby & C.I. Scofied, they're the modern fathers

Your belief in a pre-trib rapture is directly related to …

Stop gaslighting.

My basis for my belief comes from God Approved Scriptural Knowledge.

You have a future immortal glorified Jesus returning to this earth,

Yes…

while mortal humans are dying around him, now thats Malarkey

so?…newsflash, all mortals will, shall, must Die…

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement dissolving this earth by fire .(The End)

I shall Return to Earth With KING Christ the Lord Jesus To His Kingdom…while mortals in their Nations are being born, living, dying…
Where are you going to Be?

 

[Truth7t7]

Stop gaslighting.

My basis for my belief comes from God Approved Scriptural Knowledge.

A pre-trib rapture and Jesus returning to this earth, hanging out with dying mortals ar[u,d him isn't found in scripture, it's a man made fairy tale

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End)

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Taken]

A pre-trib rapture and Jesus returning to this earth, hanging out with dying mortals ar[u,d him isn't found in scripture, it's a man made fairy tale

Agree you have made up a fairy tale.
“Only you have Said Jesus’ Return IS Intended for the purpose…
to Hang out with mortals while they are dying

Nothing in Scripture teaches such nonsense, nor is Anyone but you making that claim, and TRYING by Gaslighting… to push “your False claims, on Others, who have Never made those Claims.

Jesus’ Return “TO Earth” IS Purposed To Rule His Kingdom and Rule over the kings of “their” kingdoms.

It is “AFTER”… a specific Time Allotment of 1,000 years…OF Christ the Lord KING Jesus Ruling His Kingdom and ruling over mortal kings of their kingdoms…

“THAT”…Great wars, Dividing, Redeeming, Rejecting, Gathering together the Rejected to their prepared place, AND Gathering together the Redeemed to their prepared place…AND Judgement and Sentencing…
IS accomplished….

ENDING…forever…
* Mortal human births
* Mortal human deaths
* Mortal human inhabitants ON Earth
* Fallen Demonic Angels (spirits) Access to ON Earth, or TO / IN the Heavens.

 

[William Barton]

The rapture is depicted in the following places:
o. John 14:2-3
o. 1Corinthians 15:51-53
o. 1Thessalonians 4:15-17
o. Revelation 11:12, 14:16

The Bible speaks of "seventy sevens" (Daniel 9:24-27). In this context "year" is 360 days. Sixty-nine of the "sevens" have passed, hence one "seven" remains.

The clock on this remaining "seven" will begin when a charismatic ruler in Israel oversees rebuilding the Jewish temple, and then takes his seat in it, as thou he were God (2Thessalonians 2:4).

 

[quietthinker]

Simple proof that the rapture occurs on the Last Day, which is a post tribulation rapture​

What does it matter when it happens? It'll happen when it happens and all the yada yada this way or that doesn't matter.
It then begs the question, what is it that matters talking about when it come to spiritual things?

 

[Taken]

Simple proof that the rapture occurs on the Last Day, which is a post tribulation rapture​

What does it matter when it happens? It'll happen when it happens and all the yada yada this way or that doesn't matter.
It then begs the question, what is it that matters talking about when it come to spiritual things?

The matter is challenged WHEN the Rapture Will Occur…

Without “UNDERSTANDING”…
The RAPTURE…
Specifically… Raises UP OFF THE EARTH, Christs Jesus’ Church members Glorified (BODY’s)…

The Latter …
First Resurrection…
AND
Second / Last Resurrection…
Do NOT RAISE Bodies of human UP OFF the Earth!
Thus raising of THOSE Bodies ARE NOT…
A RAPTURE!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[quietthinker]

The matter is challenged WHEN the Rapture Will Occur…

Without “UNDERSTANDING”…
The RAPTURE…
Specifically… Raises UP OFF THE EARTH, Christs Jesus’ Church members Glorified (BODY’s)…

The Latter …
First Resurrection…
AND
Second / Last Resurrection…
Do NOT RAISE Bodies of human UP OFF the Earth!
Thus raising of THOSE Bodies ARE NOT…
A RAPTURE!

Glory to God,
Taken

Still doesn't answer the question, Taken

 

[Taken]

Still doesn't answer the question, Taken

Your specific question?

 

[quietthinker]

Your specific question?

What does it matter when it happens? It'll happen when it happens and all the yada yada this way or that doesn't matter.
It then begs the question, what is it that matters talking about when it come to spiritual things?

 

[Taken]

What does it matter when it happens? It'll happen when it happens and all the yada yada this way or that doesn't matter.

Yes it will happen WHEN it happens…
( at an unknown Time )…

Just as a mans Death can happen at an Unknown Time.

It then begs the question, what is it that matters talking about when it come to spiritual things?

Because … Every man’s (human) Life (body, soul, spirit) Shall be Affected by the Creator and Maker…
Whether or not that human believes.

Having that knowledge, prepares a human, to make his own Choices, for his own eternal destiny of what it Shall be.



Glory to God,
Taken

 

[sondring7]

A pre-trib rapture and Jesus returning to this earth, hanging out with dying mortals ar[u,d him isn't found in scripture, it's a man made fairy tale

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End)

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Is the 1 Thess 4.17 cloud stopover to gather the saved just a short pause on the way down to earth ?
Please state the text that confirms that so that we can try and understand why you believe the way you do.

 

[ewq1938]

What does it matter when it happens? It'll happen when it happens and all the yada yada this way or that doesn't matter.

It matters because the AC comes first and deceives people and the Apostasy (apostasia/departing) happens, which Pretrib thinks is the rapture. It matters a lot. Not so much years or decades before the event happens but when the time is right for the AC to come, a false rapture by a false christ is very possible. Even the elect of God would be deceived if it was possible.