Who are the Saved?

[Episkopos]

So who are the saved? Who is walking in the salvation of God at the present time, and who will inherit life in the next age? These two considerations are usually confused or jumbled to be one thing. All the ways of God are BOTH mercy and truth. The word of God is like a DOUBLE edged sword. In this episode we explore the distinction between inheriting life according to mercy in the next age and inheriting life according to glory.

 

[ScottA]

Oh Episkopos, you are dividing what God has joined together!

Indeed, God has and is dividing the light from the darkness, but both "mercy and truth" are of the Light. So, what you have assembled is off in the weeds of many speculation doctrines.

That difference or duality that you are basing it all on, to the contrary, is not two forms of salvation, but is the defining points between the first and last resurrection. Which many do not fully understand, if at all. The first resurrection is not some distant future wave of special resurrection--but is resurrection life given--since Pentecost--to those who are "faithful in a very little, have authority over" much more during this present reign of Christ who has "been given all authority...in heaven and earth" during these times of the church among the gentiles.

Jesus also referred to this difference in a warning to those who "believe" and thus assume they are "saved", but are not serving "truth" after receiving "salvation." In which case, He said He "will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth"). Which cuts them out of the full measure of the first resurrection--worse than for the "evil servant" who buried the one talent given to him. Thus, "weeping and gnashing of teeth."

So...unless one's otherwise fine job is in perfect alignment--without speculations, or thinking, or teachings of men--they get "cut."

Which, yes, would all seem to agree with no doctrine. But that is where we are at--and it's not the first time--just look to the past, this is a repeat by the church among the gentiles.

 

[Episkopos]

Oh Episkopos, you are dividing what God has joined together!

Indeed, God has and is dividing the light from the darkness, but both "mercy and truth" are of the Light. So, what you have assembled is off in the weeds of many speculation doctrines.

We all need mercy...but we are not all of the truth. Mercy is an easy standard meant for the repentant, the merciful, the meek...etc.

But beyond the very basic mercy of God is also the judgment of God where by there are winners and losers....vessels of honour and vessels of dishonour...fully outside the realm of mercy.

That difference or duality that you are basing it all on, to the contrary, is not two forms of salvation, but is the defining points between the first and last resurrection.

The first resurrection is for honour AND dishonour. This is for the household of God and meant to reveal the identity of the saints....those who serve Him and those who serve Him not.

The 2nd resurrection is for life and death...based on righteously and unrighteousness. Those who are not written in for life and cast in the lake of fire.

So there are 4 eternal destinies. The saints who live in the holy city. The nations of the righteous who are ruled over by the saints. The vessels of dishonour who are cast into outer darkness...and the wicked who are put to death in the lake of fire.

Which many do not fully understand, if at all. The first resurrection is not some distant future wave of special resurrection--but is resurrection life given--since Pentecost--to those who are "faithful in a very little, have authority over" much more during this present reign of Christ who has "been given all authority...in heaven and earth" during these times of the church among the gentiles.

Jesus also referred to this difference in a warning to those who "believe" and thus assume they are "saved", but are not serving "truth" after receiving "salvation." In which case, He said He "will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth"). Which cuts them out of the full measure of the first resurrection--worse than for the "evil servant" who buried the one talent given to him. Thus, "weeping and gnashing of teeth."

So...unless one's otherwise fine job is in perfect alignment--without speculations, or thinking, or teachings of men--they get "cut."

Which, yes, would all seem to agree with no doctrine. But that is where we are at--and it's not the first time--just look to the past, this is a repeat by the church among the gentiles.

The portion of the hypocrites is to be cast into outer darkness...there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[ScottA]

We all need mercy...but we are not all of the truth. Mercy is an easy standard meant for the repentant, the merciful, the meek...etc.

But beyond the very basic mercy of God is also the judgment of God where by there are winners and losers....vessels of honour and vessels of dishonour...fully outside the realm of mercy.


The first resurrection is for honour AND dishonour. This is for the household of God and meant to reveal the identity of the saints....those who serve Him and those who serve Him not.

The 2nd resurrection is for life and death...based on righteously and unrighteousness. Those who are not written in for life and cast in the lake of fire.

So there are 4 eternal destinies. The saints who live in the holy city. The nations of the righteous who are ruled over by the saints. The vessels of dishonour who are cast into outer darkness...and the wicked who are put to death in the lake of fire.

The portion of the hypocrites is to be cast into outer darkness...there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

None of these things are actually debatable--and Jesus turning over the tables before the Temple was just the opening act. Now instead of one nation and people, how many more are we, each with tables of offerings? Which comes to every generation in their time, not by observation, even so, with fire, Holy fire.

Best to hold on loosely, and be prepared to listen and be corrected.

 

[sondring7]

Who are the saved ?
++++
If referencing to 2026 then the answer is simple.
1 Cor 15.1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Those who believe in the death and burial and resurrection of Christ for the forgiveness of their sins.

 

[Episkopos]

Who are the saved ?
++++
If referencing to 2026 then the answer is simple.
1 Cor 15.1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Those who believe in the death and burial and resurrection of Christ for the forgiveness of their sins.

Forgiveness is one thing but saved? Believing ABOUT Jesus isn't the same as believing Jesus....listening to Him and obeying Him. Believing about Jesus is not the same as believing INTO Him to be where He is.

God is merciful, but salvation is not just about accepting a religious proposition. Faith and beliefs are not the same. Having a religious opinion doesn't make you stop sinning.
And then there is the question...saved to what end? Saved to be rejected into outer darkness? Saved into the nations of the righteous. saved into the holy city for glory????

So the vagueness of that kind of declaration leads many to assume and presume things that are not biblical.

 

[sondring7]

Forgiveness is one thing but saved? Believing ABOUT Jesus isn't the same as believing Jesus....listening to Him and obeying Him. Believing about Jesus is not the same as believing INTO Him to be where He is.

God is merciful, but salvation is not just about accepting a religious proposition. Faith and beliefs are not the same. Having a religious opinion doesn't make you stop sinning.
And then there is the question...saved to what end? Saved to be rejected into outer darkness? Saved into the nations of the righteous. saved into the holy city for glory????

So the vagueness of that kind of declaration leads many to assume and presume things that are not biblical.

+++++So the vagueness of that kind of declaration leads many to assume and presume things that are not biblical.
Text taught by Jesus via Paul is clear & easy to understand
Faith and trust in the death and burial and resurrection of Christ equals saved, forgiven of all sin Col 2.13 and sealed with the HS till the day of redemption Eph 1.13, Eph 4.30
As others here have also stated the performance requirements are Titus 3.5-7, Rom 3.28, Gal 2.16, Eph 2.8-9, Rom 4.5, Rom 5.1
Either you believe what Jesus via Paul taught or you dont.

 

[Episkopos]

Faith and trust in the death and burial and resurrection of Christ equals saved, forgiven of all sin Col 2.13 and sealed with the HS till the day of redemption Eph 1.13, Eph 4.30

This is a religious proposition that leaves God fully out of the equation. It makes you the author of your own salvation. You get to decide if you are righteous. There is no acceptance with God required. As such salvation is arbitrary....it depends on your choice. Is it any wonder that people who assume they know God and work for Him are rejected when they finally come to judgment? As in...go away I never knew you. People invent their own connection to God...and what do they expect? That Jesus will declare that He knows them? Based on what interaction?

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. We don't make that personal by just declaring that it pertains to us. We are not judging ourselves on judgment day...God is. And He is not looking for people who have self-interest...quite the opposite. He is looking for humility and the fear of the Lord...both of which are fully absent in your scheme.

And the motivation of people who seek to save their lives through a belief proposition are not following Jesus' counsel at all.

He said.he who seeks to SAVE his life shall lose it.

It's like when people TRY to be happy...and it alludes them.

So then an effort to be saved based on a religious proposition pushes salvation further away.

As others here have also stated the performance requirements are Titus 3.5-7, Rom 3.28, Gal 2.16, Eph 2.8-9, Rom 4.5, Rom 5.1
Either you believe what Jesus via Paul taught or you dont.

You are inventing the criteria for salvation. God decides not you based on your selecting certain verses that you claim pertain to you.

 

[MostlyConfused]

This is a religious proposition that leaves God fully out of the equation. It makes you the author of your own salvation. You get to decide if you are righteous. There is no acceptance with God required. As such salvation is arbitrary....it depends on your choice. Is it any wonder that people who assume they know God and work for Him are rejected when they finally come to judgment? As in...go away I never knew you. People invent their own connection to God...and what do they expect? That Jesus will declare that He knows them? Based on what interaction?

Pseudo-evangelicalism. Formulaic hocus pocus. Beguiling, anesthetizing and weaving spells with words.

(The above that you wrote is so very, very surgical. You always amaze me with your discernment and precision.)

 

[Episkopos]

Pseudo-evangelicalism. Formulaic hocus pocus. Beguiling, anesthetizing and weaving spells with words.

(The above that you wrote is so very, very surgical. You always amaze me with your discernment and precision.)

Our choice is whether we want to repent or not unto righteousness...by water baptism. The baptism of repentance. Nothing miraculous about it. It's a human decision.

Spirit baptism on the other hand is by the will of God. Translation into Zion in the higher walk is by the will of God.

Getting the two confused negates both.

 

[sondring7]

This is a religious proposition that leaves God fully out of the equation. It makes you the author of your own salvation. You get to decide if you are righteous. There is no acceptance with God required. As such salvation is arbitrary....it depends on your choice. Is it any wonder that people who assume they know God and work for Him are rejected when they finally come to judgment? As in...go away I never knew you. People invent their own connection to God...and what do they expect? That Jesus will declare that He knows them? Based on what interaction?

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. We don't make that personal by just declaring that it pertains to us. We are not judging ourselves on judgment day...God is. And He is not looking for people who have self-interest...quite the opposite. He is looking for humility and the fear of the Lord...both of which are fully absent in your scheme.

And the motivation of people who seek to save their lives through a belief proposition are not following Jesus' counsel at all.

He said.he who seeks to SAVE his life shall lose it.

It's like when people TRY to be happy...and it alludes them.

So then an effort to be saved based on a religious proposition pushes salvation further away.

You are inventing the criteria for salvation. God decides not you based on your selecting certain verses that you claim pertain to you.

++++It makes you the author of your own salvation.
Not according to the teachings of Jesus through Paul 1 Cor15.1-14, Eph 1.13.

 

[Episkopos]

++++It makes you the author of your own salvation.
Not according to the teachings of Jesus through Paul 1 Cor15.1-14, Eph 1.13.

Why don't you receive the clear and direct teaching of Jesus in Rev 3 that you are poor, naked, wretched, and blind?

 

[MostlyConfused]

Episkopos, I’ve written something down but am bad about attributing in my journals so I want to ask, was it you who somewhere said that men use what is meant to be a map for transformation as a shield AGAINST that transformation? I’m thinking it sounds like you…

And one more. Are you the one who said that Christian’s are not sufficiently transformed to make you think they actually BELIEVE what they say they believe?

That might be ridiculous of me, to expect you to remember every thing you’ve ever said…!

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos, I’ve written something down but am bad about attributing in my journals so I want to ask, was it you who somewhere said that men use what is meant to be a map for transformation as a shield AGAINST that transformation? I’m thinking it sounds like you…

Could be. By misinterpretation people will take the solution God gives them to the problem and create a whole new more messed up problem. Let's do the twist. A prophetic dance, really.

And one more. Are you the one who said that Christian’s are not sufficiently transformed to make you think they actually BELIEVE what they say they believe?

Some people realize DEEP down inside that they are wrong. But they look for evidence by seeing who is in the majority. When has the majority ever been wrong?

That might be ridiculous of me, to expect you to remember every thing you’ve ever said…!

Me neither!

 

[MostlyConfused]

Could be. By misinterpretation people will take the solution God gives them to the problem and create a whole new more messed up problem. Let's do the twist. A prophetic dance, really.

You have made me laugh uproariously

 

[Episkopos]

People look at faith as trusting that God will be very kind to them on judgment day. How is that any better than wishful thinking? Many will have those nice thoughts even as they completely ignore all of the warnings of Jesus and every author of the bible. As if God will make a special exception just for them.

And yet God is NOT a respecter of persons. Judgment day is going to come as a shock...basically to everyone. Those who fear the Lord may get a pleasant surprise. Those who are smug about their salvation may not get such a pleasant one.

 

[CrowCross]

People look at faith as trusting that God will be very kind to them on judgment day. How is that any better than wishful thinking?

When you understand salvation and your need for it...the cross and blood of Christ...believing and trusting in Christ Jesus for what He did for you.....there is no wishful thinking. The perspicuity of the core belief concerning salvation is easily recognized in scripture. There is no need for wishful thinking.

When you add your styles, stages and striving to salvation you seem to muddying the waters. You seem to be generating wishful thinking as you hope to climb your ladder and make it to the top rung....

 

[Episkopos]

When you understand salvation and your need for it...the cross and blood of Christ...believing and trusting in Christ Jesus for what He did for you.....there is no wishful thinking. The perspicuity of the core belief concerning salvation is easily recognized in scripture. There is no need for wishful thinking.

When you add your styles, stages and striving to salvation you seem to muddying the waters. You seem to be generating wishful thinking as you hope to climb your ladder and make it to the top rung....

Only a selfish ideologue would see things like obedience and surrender as "muddying the waters"

 

[CrowCross]

Only a selfish ideologue would see things like obedience and surrender as "muddying the waters"

When you REQUIRE such "obedience and surrender" as what one has to do in order to receive salvation...merit salvation...I consider this as a severe muddying the water. Nothing lives in it.

Are you pushing some form of Mormonism?

 

[Episkopos]

When you REQUIRE such "obedience and surrender" as what one has to do in order to receive salvation...merit salvation...I consider this as a severe muddying the water. Nothing lives in it.

Are you pushing some form of Mormonism?

Only a Gnostic could think that.