Simple proof that the rapture occurs on the Last Day, which is a post tribulation rapture
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GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Simple proof 'last day' rapture?:
Yes, simply The Last Day Of The Current Dispensation Of Grace, According
To "The Revelation Of The Mystery [Rom-Phm AV) ], Ending With:
God's Great GRACE Departure!
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!" (BBS)
The Continuation of God's Prophetic Program For Israel, And The "Time of JACOB's
[ Israel's ] Trouble" [ Great Tribulation = Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation AV) ]
-------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:
The Bible: The BIG Picture
Amen.
Yes, simply The Last Day Of The Current Dispensation Of Grace, According
To "The Revelation Of The Mystery [Rom-Phm AV) ], Ending With:
God's Great GRACE Departure!
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!" (BBS)
The Continuation of God's Prophetic Program For Israel, And The "Time of JACOB's
[ Israel's ] Trouble" [ Great Tribulation = Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation AV) ]
-------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:
The Bible: The BIG Picture
Amen.
Truth7t7
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1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 below is nothing more than the "Second Coming" of Jesus Christ and "The Last Day" Resurrection
Your claim that the verses seen below represents a "Pre-Trib" rapture is 100% "False"
1 Thessalonians 4 16-17KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are ¹alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
John 5:28-29 clearly teaches below, all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and shall come forth, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the second coming of Jesus Christ (Final Judgement)
Two resurrections are seen below (First) the resurrection to life (Second) the resurrection to damnation or (Second Death), the righteous are blessed to be in the (First) resurrection to eternal life.
(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)
John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)
John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
The scripture is very clear
1. Jesus Christ Comes
2. The Resurrection Takes Place
3. Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory
4. Then Cometh The End
5. In The Twinkling Off An Eye
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim
(Then Cometh The End)
(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)
(In The Twinkling Of An Eye)
1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Last edited:
Taken noted:
<Jesus does not come to earth to gather his church>
Bible noted:
o. Lord Himself will descend to a cloud (1Thessalonians 4:16-17)
o. on the cloud one like a son of man...earth was reaped (Rev 14:16)
Davy
Well-Known Member
Apostle Paul...
1 Thess 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV
Then one must refer to Zechariah 14 to get the rest of the picture, where Jesus' feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, bringing ALL... His 'faithful' Church with Him there to begin His future "thousand years" reign over all nations.
Where do your verses show that 1 Thess 4.17 is simply a short stop in the clouds to collect believers before landing on solid earth ?
++++1Thessalonians 4:17 is the rapture, removing believers from the field of the coming battle.
Does that also include Adam, Eve, Abraham etc ?
Truth7t7
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With verses, what do you believe is the condition of the earth at 1 Thess 4.17 ?
The second coming of Jesus and his mighty angels engages Satan and his angels at the plain of Megiddo in Israel, at the eastern end of the Mediterranean sea. (Revelation 19:11-21).
He brings with him believers of all times
It includes everyone ordained by God. I cannot say specifically who is included.
++++The second coming of Jesus and his mighty angels engages Satan and his angels at the plain of Megiddo in Israel
The angels are not mentioned in 1 Thess 4.16-17 cloud gathering of dead and live believers in Christ.
++++He brings with him believers of all times
Are Adam, Eve, Abraham, David, Lot etc also the 1 Thess 4.16-17 believers dead in Christ ?
++++It includes everyone ordained by God. I cannot say specifically who is included.
Text does :-
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up
1 Thess 4.16-17 still sounds like a separate event to Megiddo
Taken
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Each portion of the Heaven(S) was described, and are above the Earth.
The Heaven(S) Collectively is properly called Heaven.
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Already covered this…
Heaven…has “layers so to speak), same as the Earth Does, Same as Some Buildings have.
Jesus is With God, in the Heaven ABOVE the Heaven(S).
Jesus Descends…
From the Heaven Above the Heavens…
Highest Heaven…….Gods Estate
To the 3rd Heaven…angels Estate
To the 2nd Heaven..saved souls resting place
To the 1st Heaven…clouds where His Bride (body, soul, spirit) is Ascended up to meet Him.
Seven Years later…
Descends From “the cloud(S)” to A White Cloud”…
Brings With Him…
His Angels / His Bride / Church
Now ON Earth…
Yes
Taken
Well-Known Member
Scripture is the Knowledge…
Given little by little…
( same as we teach our children)
When people “stop or skip around “… they lose the flow of “step by step”.
When people “begin at the beginning”…are introduced to the knowledge “step by step”, THEY begin to “REASON”… what the “KNOWLEDGE” is Revealing.
When people “Have “CHOSEN” to “TRUST the KNOWLEDGE….”
THEN… are they “Prepared”… to Receive the “UNDERSTANDING” of the “KNOWLEDGE”…
From… the Lord God.
Ever notice… ? an Unbeliever…wants / will even demand a person to Give THEM the “Understanding”… when they have NOT themselves… taken the step by step process.
The “simplicity”… All hangs on having completed the step by step process…
And a meaningful discussion can be had between “Two people”, regarding the knowledge And understanding.
If “One person” is “lacking understanding”…the discussion CAN get ugly quickly.
God bless you.
Glory to God,
Taken
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
A different perspective of the term last day.
"Last day" of the Age of the Gentiles and the rule of Satan/ /Antichrist. The fullness of the Gentiles comes to it's last day and the Rapture occurs.
What happens at the 7th Trumpet? The mystery of God is revealed and finished ( Rev..10:7)
Rev. 11:15-19
“The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth.” Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail."
A new age begins, a new day, the Day of the Lord. His reign begins at the 7th Trumpet! And that lasts 1000 years. And His wrath comes in the seven bowls - so the GT it is not over yet! Likely it lasts a short time - 40 days, 70 days? "Blessed are those who make it to day 1335". That means after the 1260 days ( reign of Antichrist and preaching of Two witnesses) + 3.5 days that they lie in the street, that time from 1263 to 1335 ( could be day 1290) when the 7th trumpet blows and wrath period begins,.but it is certainly the last day of the kingdoms of the earth, the reign of Satan, when Jesus shows up.
"Last day" of the Age of the Gentiles and the rule of Satan/ /Antichrist. The fullness of the Gentiles comes to it's last day and the Rapture occurs.
What happens at the 7th Trumpet? The mystery of God is revealed and finished ( Rev..10:7)
Rev. 11:15-19
“The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth.” Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail."
A new age begins, a new day, the Day of the Lord. His reign begins at the 7th Trumpet! And that lasts 1000 years. And His wrath comes in the seven bowls - so the GT it is not over yet! Likely it lasts a short time - 40 days, 70 days? "Blessed are those who make it to day 1335". That means after the 1260 days ( reign of Antichrist and preaching of Two witnesses) + 3.5 days that they lie in the street, that time from 1263 to 1335 ( could be day 1290) when the 7th trumpet blows and wrath period begins,.but it is certainly the last day of the kingdoms of the earth, the reign of Satan, when Jesus shows up.
Daniel 12 on the resurrection, judgment of hell for the unbelieving wicked, and glorification of the people of God
Which occurs after the tribulation of those days. When Christ returns it is the resurrection and judgment of the world, on the last Day
Acts 17
30 The times of this ignorance God overlooked, but now He commandeth all men everywhere to repent,
31 because He hath appointed a Day in which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained. Of this He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead.”
After men die once comes the judgment.
All are resurrected, both the just and the unjust
Then if they are judged not worthy of eternal life, they die the second death.
The second time is the glorious bodily appearing of Christ to all the world, when He comes in His glory, and in His Father's glory, and with the holy angels. And everything that is in Christ, God brings with Him.
Acts 24:15
And I have hope in God, which they themselves also hold, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
Hebrews 9
24 For Christ has not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into Heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.
25 Nor yet should He offer Himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place with blood of others every year;
26 for then would He have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once, in the end of the world, hath He appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the Judgment,
28 so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto those who look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin, unto salvation.
“At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting [a]contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.
Jesus explains Daniel 12 in Matthew 13 and the ending of the world-age
The Parable of the Tares Explained
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house, and His disciples came unto Him, saying, “Explain unto us the parable of the tares of the field.”37 He answered and said unto them, “He that soweth the good seed is the Son of Man.
38 The field is the world, the good seed are the children of the Kingdom, but the tares are the children of the wicked one.
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the world, and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so shall it be at the end of this world.
41 The Son of Man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His Kingdom all things that offend and them that do iniquity,
42 and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Mark 13
19 For in those days shall be affliction such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.
21 And then if any man shall say to you, ‘Lo, here is Christ!’ or, ‘Lo, He is there!’ believe him not;
22 for false christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed; behold, I have foretold you all things.
24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, ‘the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.’
26 And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
28 “Now learn a parable of the fig tree: When her branch is yet tender and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near.
29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.
31 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man — no, not the angels who are in Heaven, neither the Son, but only the Father.
33 “Take ye heed, watch and pray; for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore, for ye know not when the Master of the house cometh — at evening, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning —
36 lest coming suddenly, He find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you, I say unto all: Watch!”
Clouds are on planet earth. Jesus comes from heaven to planet earth, *descends* to a cloud, and reaps.
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