The Two Anointed Ones = The Two Witnesses

[TribulationSigns]

I believe the scripture teaches 3 days, possibly I could have missed the exact year, month, day, minute, or second?

When did Christ resurrected his body, according to Scripture? And yes, it says three days as I explained in my recent response to Earburner just now.

After the Lord's resurrection, if you have the exact year, month, day, hour, minute; or second, I'm all ears?

After his resurrection, yes, which is on third day. No need to know the exact year, month day hour minute second, or even light year.

P.S. "Arose" should be "Rise"?

Indeed.

The Greek verb:

• “arose” = ēgerthēsan (ἠγέρθησαν), from egeirō — to raise up, awaken, rise.

As a testimony to the living, if you have another explanation I'm all ears

I already explained here.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your claim above in bold red are "False"

You've been shown several times that the interpretation for Revelation 11:3-4 is clearly given in Zechariah 4:11-14, these are parallel teachings, scripture interprets itself

Zechariah 4:11-14 only refers to one candlestick/lampstand, not two. Why do you ignore details like that? And then there's the fact that candlesticks/lampstands represent churches in Revelation 1:20. Why do you ignore that? The two witnesses are described as TWO candlesticks/lampstands. Don't just ignore that. And you can look at Romans 11:15-24 to see what the two olive trees represent (the church).

 

[ewq1938]

Your Claim Is "False"

No it isn't. Yours is false. Anyone raised from the dead has been resurrected. The only dif is resurrected back to moral life or to immortal life.

 

[Earburner]

(Chuckle). Clearly you did not check with your Bible carefully. You denied that Christ need to wait 3 days for his resurrection. Guess what, Jesus said you are wrong. Here is what He, Himself, said through Mark and Paul:

“the Son of man must be killed, and after three days rise again.”
— Mark 8:31

“he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures”
— 1 Corinthians 15:4

Or how about this:

“Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
— John 2:19

John immediately explains:

“he spake of the temple of his body.”
— John 2:21

The body is specifically in view. Selah!

So Christ's "spirit remaining alive" is NOT the same thing as His bodily resurrection already occurring. You are mixing two different concepts.

His body was dead in the tomb.

His resurrection was the raising of His dead body.

You clearly twisted everything in Scripture and ignore others to fit your flawed doctrine. Do better with your researching with Scripture carefully next time.

Yeah, and EARLY Sun morning, when Mary Magdeline went to the sepulcher, Jesus was already found by her walking around, she thinking that he was the gardner.
John 20
The first day of the week [Sunday 6 am] cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
15. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

Go ahead, do the math. Early Friday morning, Jesus was at His Jewish trial. Friday evening, at 3pm is when Jesus died, and Jesus' body was prepped for burial by 6pm. According to Jewish time, sabbath began at 6pm sundown, after Friday evening. Therefore upon Friday at sundown (evening to evening =24 houurs), the sabbath day was only a few minutes away.

Fri. 6pm-6am = 12 hrs.- Jesus' trial etc.
Fri. 6am-6pm = 12- Jesus' death and body prep.
^(Friday- Preparation day ends 5:59pm. Sabbath begins. Fri. eve 6:01pm).

Sab. 6pm-6am =12- Jesus in the sepulcher
Sab. 6am-6pm= 12- Jesus in the sepulcher
Sun. 6pm-6am= 12- Jesus out of sepulcher
Total- 36 hours

See Luke 23:50-56
After the 36 hours (1.5 days) in the sepulcher,
Mary saw Jesus walking around, while it was still dark (6am).
How many hours was Jesus in the sepulcher? 36 hrs (or maybe less).
How many hours are there in 3 days? There are 72 hours in three 24 hour days (evening to evening).

However one does the math, "evening to evening", Jesus is in the sepulcher for only 36 hours and not 72. That's 36 hours (1.5 days) not accounted for.

So then, for 3 days, figuratively Jesus was in the sepulcher on Friday and was still in it on Sunday, but not for all of the 72 hours literally, counting time "evening to evening".

 

[Truth7t7]

Zechariah 4:11-14 only refers to one candlestick/lampstand, not two. Why do you ignore details like that? And then there's the fact that candlesticks/lampstands represent churches in Revelation 1:20. Why do you ignore that? The two witnesses are described as TWO candlesticks/lampstands. Don't just ignore that. And you can look at Romans 11:15-24 to see what the two olive trees represent (the church).

Why do you ignore the facts as described below in Zechariah 4:11-14 regarding the "Olive Trees" being interpreted as (The Two Anointed Ones) before your eyes and not one mention of this fact "Why"?

Why do you ignore the facts in Revelation 11:3-4 that (The Two Witnesses) are described as being "Two Olive Trees" (These Are The Two Olive Trees) before your eyes and not one mention of this fact "Why"?

Why do you ignore the facts as described below regarding items 1 & 2?

(Items 1 & 2 Below, Same "Exact" Description In Parallel Teachings "Fact"!)

1.) Zechariah 4:14 and the words: (that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.)

2.) Revelation 11:4 and the words: (standing before the God of the earth.)

The interpretation for Revelation 11:3-4 is clearly given in Zechariah 4:11-14, these are parallel teachings, scripture interprets itself

Olive Trees, Olive Branches = The Two Anointed Ones, Who Are Described In Revelation Chapter 11 As Having Literal Bodies That Die, And These Dead Bodies Are Raised From The Dead Before A Literal World Watching

(These Are The Two Annointed Ones) = (The Two Witnesses) = (Two Prophets) Literal, Physical, And Upon This Earth, Rev 11:10

Zechariah 4:11-14KJV
11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Revelation 11:3-4 & 10KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

 

[ewq1938]

See Luke 23:50-56
After the 36 hours (1.5 days) in the sepulcher,
Mary saw Jesus walking around, while it was still dark (6am).
How many hours was Jesus in the sepulcher? 36 hrs (or maybe less).
How many hours are there in 3 days? There are 72 hours in three 24 hour days (evening to evening).

However one does the math, "evening to evening", Jesus is in the sepulcher for only 36 hours and not 72. That's 36 hours (1.5 days) not accounted for.

1.5 days does not match what is written:

Mat_12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yeah, and EARLY Sun morning...

Yes, I did the math—and you did everything except answer the point.

Nobody disputes that Mary found Jesus alive on Sunday morning. The question is whether Scripture says He rose on the third day. It does:

“after three days rise again” — Mark 8:31
“he rose again the third day” — 1 Corinthians 15:4
“in three days I will raise it up” — John 2:19

Your “36 hours vs. 72 hours” calculation doesn't overturn those verses. Jesus never said, “I must spend exactly 72 hours in the tomb.” He said He would rise "the third day."

So congratulations—you proved my position that Jesus has resurrected on Sunday morning. You still haven't disproved what Jesus and Paul explicitly said: He rose the third day.

i am not impressed with your math gymnastics because Scripture remains Scripture. And you remains in error with your false resurrection and Two Witnesses interpretations. You remain refuted.

 

[TribulationSigns]

1.5 days does not match what is written:

Mat_12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Case in point!

“So shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” — Matthew 12:40

Does that sound like 36 hours to you, @Earburner?

The problem is NOT that Scripture contradicts itself. The problem is trying to force Scripture into your 36-hour calculation. Scripture doesn't contradict itself—your math gymnastics do.

 

[Earburner]

1.5 days does not match what is written:

Mat_12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Do you not understand how Israel kept time?
Jesus, being Jewish himself literally understood it and lived by it daily. Evening to evening is 24 hours.

 

[ewq1938]

Do you not understand how Israel kept time?

Everyone does.

Jesus, being Jewish himself literally understood it and lived by it daily. Evening to evening is 24 hours.

You don't have 3 days and 3 nights. He was buried in in the grave Thursday, Friday and Saturday and rose early Sunday which is after dark on Saturday evening so he was already gone when ppl showed up at the grave.

 

[Earburner]

Yes, I did the math—and you did everything except answer the point.

Nobody disputes that Mary found Jesus alive on Sunday morning. The question is whether Scripture says He rose on the third day. It does:

“after three days rise again” — Mark 8:31
“he rose again the third day” — 1 Corinthians 15:4
“in three days I will raise it up” — John 2:19

Your “36 hours vs. 72 hours” calculation doesn't overturn those verses. Jesus never said, “I must spend exactly 72 hours in the tomb.” He said He would rise "the third day."

So congratulations—you proved my position that Jesus has resurrected on Sunday morning. You still haven't disproved what Jesus and Paul explicitly said: He rose the third day.

i am not impressed with your math gymnastics because Scripture remains Scripture. And you remains in error with your false resurrection and Two Witnesses interpretations. You remain refuted.

And what did I actually say:
"So then, for 3 days, figuratively Jesus was in the sepulcher on Friday and was still in it on Sunday, but not for all of the 72 hours literally, counting time "evening to evening".

If then figuratively, what exactly was he literally doing for the unaccounted time of 36 hours?

Like I pointed out previously, He who is Eternal, imnediately AFTER His mortal death, was STILL going about "His Father's business", like that of resurrecting the MANY OC saints out of their graves (John the baptist included), who all then went WALKING in the streets of the city for 40 days, as DID Jesus Himself. Their resurrection was unto New Life, and not that of a resuscitation to their old life, as that of Lazarus.
Did you even know why it was that Lazarus COULDN'T be resurrected to NEW Life??
John 7
39. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) Aka resurrected.

 

[Earburner]

Everyone does.





You don't have 3 days and 3 nights. He was buried in in the grave Thursday, Friday and Saturday and rose early Sunday which is after dark on Saturday evening so he was already gone when ppl showed up at the grave.

See Luke 23:50-56 and then please read my post 391, and you will see I do understand it according how even Jesus kept time according to the Jews.

 

[ewq1938]

See Luke 23:50-56 and then please read my post 391, and you will see I do understand it according how even Jesus kept time according to the Jews.

You don't have 3 days and nights in yours so it is wrong. No version of friday burial and one more day in the grave is right. The Friday burial is simply wrong because he rose early Sunday which is what we call Saturday night.

 

[TribulationSigns]

And what did I actually say:
"So then, for 3 days, figuratively Jesus was in the sepulcher on Friday and was still in it on Sunday, but not for all of the 72 hours literally, counting time "evening to evening".

If then figuratively, what exactly was he literally doing for the unaccounted time of 36 hours?

Like I pointed out previously, He who is Eternal, imnediately AFTER His mortal death, was STILL going about "His Father's business", like that of resurrecting the MANY OC saints out of their graves (John the baptist included), who all then went WALKING in the streets of the city for 40 days, as DID Jesus Himself. Their resurrection was unto New Life, and not that of a resuscitation to their old life, as that of Lazarus.
Did you even know why it was that Lazarus COULDN'T be resurrected to NEW Life??
John 7
39. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) Aka resurrected.

Ahhh...and there it is—you finally admitted the problem: you have to make Jesus’ “three days and three nights” figurative because your 36-hour calculation doesn't fit the text.

But then you compound it by inventing a story that Scripture never says: that Jesus was resurrecting Old Covenant saints during those supposed “missing” 36 hours. LOL! Wow.

Matthew 12:40 says Christ Himself would be “three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” John 2:19 says His body would be raised in three days. 1 Corinthians 15:4 says He rose the third day.

Lazarus, John the Baptist, and your theories about glorification don't change any of those statements! Not a bit!

You asked what Jesus was doing during the “unaccounted” 36 hours. The biblical answer is simple: His body was in the tomb awaiting resurrection.

At this point, I'm going to let Scripture have the last word. No more mathematical gymnastics and nonsenses from you. Go bother others with your nonsenses.

Good bye!

 

[Earburner]

I don't think that you can make any/all of these prophecies about a single pair of people. The idea of "twain anointed" occurs throughout both testaments. There are several such pairs:

Moses and Joshua
Elijah and Elisha
Zerubbabel and Joshua
John and Jesus

Things have a way of repeating themselves, especially where it comes to prophecy.

Apart from John and Jesus, all others and anyone else, who DO NOT have the Holy Spirit within them, before their physical birth, they are disqualified hands down.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:39

As for anyone who has died prior to John and Jesus, as well as after them, no matter what their importance, "...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Heb. 9:27.

 

[Earburner]

Ahhh...and there it is—you finally admitted the problem: you have to make Jesus’ “three days and three nights” figurative because your 36-hour calculation doesn't fit the text.

But then you compound it by inventing a story that Scripture never says: that Jesus was resurrecting Old Covenant saints during those supposed “missing” 36 hours. LOL! Wow.

Matthew 12:40 says Christ Himself would be “three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” John 2:19 says His body would be raised in three days. 1 Corinthians 15:4 says He rose the third day.

Lazarus, John the Baptist, and your theories about glorification don't change any of those statements! Not a bit!

You asked what Jesus was doing during the “unaccounted” 36 hours. The biblical answer is simple: His body was in the tomb awaiting resurrection.

At this point, I'm going to let Scripture have the last word. No more mathematical gymnastics and nonsenses from you. Go bother others with your nonsenses.

Good bye!

No!! Jesus Himself made it figurative by saying he will resurrect in 3 days. However in literal Jewish time recording, "evening to evening" constitutes one entire day as being 24 hours.

Biblically, the literal time is accurately accounted for. From the time that Jesus is placed in the sepulcher, Friday 5:59pm, minutes before the coming of the sabbath day at 6:01pm, upto when Mary Magdeline sees Jesus early Sunday morning at 6am, and it's still dark, we do know that only 36 literal hours had passed and not 72 hours.

Sorry that you can't handle the truth!!

 

[Earburner]

Ahhh...and there it is—you finally admitted the problem: you have to make Jesus’ “three days and three nights” figurative because your 36-hour calculation doesn't fit the text.

But then you compound it by inventing a story that Scripture never says: that Jesus was resurrecting Old Covenant saints during those supposed “missing” 36 hours. LOL! Wow.

Matthew 12:40 says Christ Himself would be “three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” John 2:19 says His body would be raised in three days. 1 Corinthians 15:4 says He rose the third day.

Lazarus, John the Baptist, and your theories about glorification don't change any of those statements! Not a bit!

You asked what Jesus was doing during the “unaccounted” 36 hours. The biblical answer is simple: His body was in the tomb awaiting resurrection.

At this point, I'm going to let Scripture have the last word. No more mathematical gymnastics and nonsenses from you. Go bother others with your nonsenses.

Good bye!

@TribulationSigns wrote:
"But then you compound it by inventing a story that Scripture never says: that Jesus was resurrecting Old Covenant saints during those supposed “missing” 36 hours. LOL! Wow."

EB's reply:
I explained this already. The two candlesticks are TWO churches Rev 11:4. The OC church in the wilderness with Moses, and the NC church with Jesus.
It's not hard to understand, when one listens to "what the Holy Spirit teaches". 1 Cor. ch. 2.

After Jesus death on the cross and His blood was shed, every faithful OC saint (Malachi 3:16-18), who had been waiting for "the Promise to come", their sins were removed "in one day" (Zech. 3:8-10), and they were thoroughly made ready to receive the Holy Spirit. The results of that "one day", are the "many bodies of the saints" that came out of their graves after the First resurrection, who was Jesus.
Remember, Jesus was NEVER spiritually dead, even though they placed His mortal dead body in the sepulcher, during the few minutes remaining of Friday, the Preparation day before the sabbath.

 

[Wick Stick]

Apart from John and Jesus, all others and anyone else, who DO NOT have the Holy Spirit within them, before their physical birth, they are disqualified hands down.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:39

As for anyone who has died prior to John and Jesus, as well as after them, no matter what their importance, "...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Heb. 9:27.

You might want to review the definition of the word 'anointed.'

 

[ewq1938]

Apart from John and Jesus, all others and anyone else, who DO NOT have the Holy Spirit within them, before their physical birth, they are disqualified hands down.

No, that is not a requirement to be of the "two witnesses". You have added that as your own personal requirement since the bible says nothing about that anywhere in Rev 11.

The truth is the two prophets of Rev 11 have not come yet and could not have been anyone in the past. Jesus and John are automatically disqualified to have been them for many reasons everyone here has already told you about.

 

[Earburner]

Why do you ignore the facts as described below in Zechariah 4:11-14 regarding the "Olive Trees" being interpreted as (The Two Anointed Ones) before your eyes and not one mention of this fact "Why"?

Why do you ignore the facts in Revelation 11:3-4 that (The Two Witnesses) are described as being "Two Olive Trees" (These Are The Two Olive Trees) before your eyes and not one mention of this fact "Why"?

Why do you ignore the facts as described below regarding items 1 & 2?

(Items 1 & 2 Below, Same "Exact" Description In Parallel Teachings "Fact"!)

1.) Zechariah 4:14 and the words: (that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.)

2.) Revelation 11:4 and the words: (standing before the God of the earth.)

The interpretation for Revelation 11:3-4 is clearly given in Zechariah 4:11-14, these are parallel teachings, scripture interprets itself

Olive Trees, Olive Branches = The Two Anointed Ones, Who Are Described In Revelation Chapter 11 As Having Literal Bodies That Die, And These Dead Bodies Are Raised From The Dead Before A Literal World Watching

(These Are The Two Annointed Ones) = (The Two Witnesses) = (Two Prophets) Literal, Physical, And Upon This Earth, Rev 11:10

Zechariah 4:11-14KJV
11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Revelation 11:3-4 & 10KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

@Truth7t7 wrote:
Zech. 4:11-14
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

EB's reply:
You have brought God's divine intelligence to be in agreement with what I have also understood by His Holy Spirit.
However, you are lacking one thing: the time of WHEN the two anointed ones appeared, and who they were!

KJV Zech. 4:12 is key to understanding what exactly "the golden oil" is, that the TWO olive branches  EMPTY [pour-H7324] [from] out of  THEMSELVES.
Empty-
Strong's Number - H7324
Hebrew: רוּק
Transliteration: rûq
Pronunciation: rook
Definition: A primitive root; to pour out (literally or {figuratively}) that {is} empty: - X {arm} cast {out} draw ({out}) (make) {empty} pour forth (out).
KJV Usage: (pour, draw...) out (7x), empty (7x), draw (3x), armed (1x), pour forth (1x).
Occurs: 19
In verses: 19

Please read the parable of the Ten Virgins, Mat. 25:1-13, and learn what the "golden oil" is.

See Dan. 9:27- that [which is] determined [vs.24] shall be poured [out] on the desolate [those who are void of God].
See Acts 2:17 "pour out of [from] my Spirit".

The very first two people to ever experience the fulness of God's Holy Spirit, and the permanency of His indwelling BEFORE birth, was John the Baptist and Jesus. It is from these "two golden pipes [throats]" that "the golden oil" did EMPTY out of themselves, the [words of God's Truth] from the Holy Spirit of God and made it available to all flesh.