If you have never had an initial grace you have not yet been regenerated in the Spirit. If you have received an initial grace and then sinned again, you have not retained your initial grace...there is no sin under grace. But you can still repent and seek to be filled with the Spirit subsequently.
A man can be converted over time without being born of the Spirit. Righteousness is about what we do. So if you repented from evil works and continue to do good works...then you have a level of conversion that God can show mercy to. That is by His MERCY standard. The glory standard is by calling and election.
All grace can and will be lost...as least initially. That's why there is a throne of grace we can go to in time of need (Heb 4:16).. God gives MORE grace to the humble (James 4:6)
Not all people who convert to a religion are born of the Spirit. That's an error to think that we can decide if we are born again or not. A modern church error. But it's OK to convert to Christ by an act of the will and be water baptized....making a commitment to Christ to serve God to the best of one's ability. That's on the righteousness level.
On the holiness level the bible says...I was found of them that sought Me not. So for holiness it is GOD who decides if a man should follow Him or not...not people. Jesus went up to His disciples and said...follow Me! Not...Hi Jesus I mean to follow you. Those who followed Jesus that were not called by Jesus followed Him from a distance...then as now.
You are still not making clear what you mean by your so-called "'initial' grace," nor whether it can be lost or not retained. Because of this, I am left to conclude you are unable to explain it in a clear way, as I already did in my previous reply.
In reality, you seem to use the term 'initial grace' along with many others as though their meanings are obvious, but they are not. This is evident in the way you apply them here and across other discussions.
What do you mean by 'no sin under grace.'? What kind of unusual grace is this that supposedly involves being sinless?
What does scripture say:
The theological concept that there is "no sin under grace" is a misunderstanding of biblical teaching, particularly Romans 6:14–15. The correct interpretation is that while believers are not under the condemnation of the Law, they are not free to sin.
"Sin Has No Dominion: Romans 6:14 states, "For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." This means grace breaks sin's power and mastery, not that sin ceases to exist or be forbidden.
Grace Is Not a License: Romans 6:15 explicitly asks, "Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?" and answers with "Certainly not!" (or "By no means!").
Purpose of Grace: Grace does not provide permission to continue in sin; rather, it provides the power and freedom to live righteously and escape the bondage of sin."
So you must mean that there is no permission to sin under grace. Instead, we have freedom to live truly righteous lives through God’s grace. That is what scripture teaches.
How can someone be converted 'over time' without being born of the Spirit? Scripture does not support this kind of extreme interpretation at all. I hope you are not blending Old Testament understandings of God’s actions and human works being called righteous with New Testament grace.
What do you mean by 'Righteousness is about what we do.'?
Scripture says:
This statement is incorrect according to scripture and its doctrine, which teaches that righteousness is primarily a gift received through faith rather than something achieved through human deeds. While righteous living is involved in aligning with God’s will, believers are declared righteous through Jesus Christ’s righteousness being credited to them, not their own moral performance.
Righteousness by Faith: The Bible states that no one can be justified by their own works; instead, righteousness is given to those who believe in Christ (Romans 3:22, Philippians 3:9).
Imputed Righteousness: On the cross, Jesus/Yeshua exchanged human sin for His own perfect righteousness, meaning God sees Christ’s holiness in believers rather than their flaws (2 Corinthians 5:21).
Result, Not Cause: Good works and righteous behavior are the fruit or evidence of a right relationship with God, not the cause of it (Ephesians 2:10).
Relational Definition: Biblically, righteousness is defined as being in a right relationship with God, characterized by faithfulness to the covenant, rather than merely following a list of rules.
What do you mean by 'if you repented from evil works and continue to do good works...then you have a level of conversion that God can show mercy to. That is by His MERCY standard. '?
What do you mean by 'The glory standard is by calling and election..'?
What do you mean by 'But you can still repent and seek to be filled with the Spirit subsequently."?
What do you mean by 'ALL grace will be lost...?...AND at least INITIALLY??? A THRONE of GRACE, is what meaning for you!? Is this your own spiritual poetry you are reciting here?'?
Scripture says:
Heb 4:14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
Does it say ALL GRACE WILL BE LOST (at least INITIALLY) as you state? No, it does not. Do you understand what grace truly means? I wonder.
In James:
Jas 4:4 You adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore, whoever chooses to be a friend of the world renders himself an enemy of God.
Jas 4:5 Or do you think the Scripture says without reason that the Spirit He caused to dwell in us yearns with envy?
Jas 4:6 But He gives us more grace. This is why it says: “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
And God is not only saying He gives more grace to the humble here; He is also indicating a condition: that the SPIRIT must already dwell within us, meaning one must be converted and born of the Spirit. One cannot be gradually converted without this, as you suggest.
What do you mean by 'That's on the righteousness level.'?
What do you mean by 'That's on the holiness level.'?
It seems you have taken many scriptural terms, nouns, and phrases and repackaged them with new self-created expressions for your own doctrinal framework.
I would suggest you clearly define your doctrine and explain the meanings of your key terms, otherwise people will remain skeptical and may not trust what you are saying as truth. Is your intention to remain vague and use poetic, self-styled language in your teaching?
A short list of apparently unscripturally reused, undefined, or unclear terms used within your doctrine(s):
'initial grace', 'good works', 'level of conversion', 'righteousness level', 'holiness level', 'mercy standard', 'glory standard', 'throne of grace', 'filled with the Spirit', 'righteousness works'
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