What If the False Teacher Sounds Like a Man of God?

[Davy]

No, saying “you cannot see it” still is not an argument. It is an assertion. Yes, Jesus said that it was given to His disciples to know the mysteries of the kingdom, while others heard in parables. But that does not give anyone permission to invent a meaning for a passage and then answer every objection with, “God just has not given you eyes to see it.”

When Jesus explained His parables, He actually gave the meaning. He did not tell the disciples to accept somebody's private interpretation because that person claimed deeper spiritual sight.

So if your interpretation of the new wine and old bottles is correct, then show it from the passage. Show where Jesus says the new wine means what you claim it means, and where the old bottles mean what you claim they mean. That is how Scripture is handled.

The same applies to Luke 23. You say Jesus' words about “the barren” are really an analogy about true worship versus false worship. Then establish that from the text. Do not simply tell me I have not been “given to understand” it.

Scripture says, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). It does not say, “Accept my interpretation because I claim to see something you cannot.”

If your interpretation is biblical, Scripture will support it. If the only defense is that anyone who disagrees lacks spiritual sight, then you have made your own spiritual perception the authority instead of the Word of God.

What I have told you about the 'new wine' and 'old bottles' is not... a private interpretation. Just you claiming that shows all the more your lack of understanding about it.

 

[Davy]

Here's a tip for brethren in Christ who are serious in Bible study for themselves, as it relates directly to this matter of the 'new wine' and 'old bottles' parable that Lord Jesus gave.

One of the remarks Lord Jesus would often use after giving a parable is something like, "Who hath ears to hear, let him hear." (Matt.13:9). In Matthew 13:10-17, Jesus answered His disciples' question of why He spoke to the multitudes in parable. The really important reason He said was that because it was given to His disciples to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to the multitudes, it was NOT given.

This points to Jesus teaching us that there is actually another level of understanding He put in His Word for those who have been given 'eyes to see, and ears to hear.' And I'm not creating some mysterious secret with this, for being able to 'see with eyes to see, and ears to hear' is not that difficult to receive from Lord Jesus. We simply have to do Bible study His Way, and not the world's way. We have to ask Him to open His Word up to our understanding so that we may 'see' (spiritually) and thus understand. And we have to do what Apostle Paul recommended to Timothy, to study to show oneself approved of God, a workman who need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of God, (which means line upon line, chapter by chapter, book by book, all of it.)

Jesus' method of parable is actually a common language tool used in all... languages. All languages have expressions, idioms, analogies, allegories, parables, sayings, etc. Lot of them do not translate perfectly between languages. And example... "I'm so hungry I could eat a horse." Someone saying that is giving an expression, an analogy. They do not mean they would eat a horse. They are only using the size of a horse to display the level of hunger they have. You could use an elephant and it would still get the point across. It draws a 'picture' in your mind for you, and that's the key.

What's the old saying, 'a picture is worth a thousand words?' That is what Lord Jesus' parables are designed to do. This is why God's Word uses so many natural things, like agriculture, etc., in His parables. It's something that the majority of the people were familiar with. Yet they contain the 'gist' of a Biblical concept, that once you understand the metaphor, you've got the Message, and the Message then acts as an Anchor within God's Truth in His Word. It can serve as a GUIDE within His Word.

Here's another example Jesus gave...

Mark 8:15-21
15 And He charged them, saying, "Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."

16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, "It is because we have no bread."

17 And when Jesus knew it, He saith unto them, "Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened?
18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?

19 When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up?" They say unto him, "Twelve."

20 "And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up?" And they said, "Seven."

21 And He said unto them, "How is it that ye do not understand?"
KJV


When Lord Jesus fed the five thousand, and the four thousand, He sent 'whole loaves' of the Bread out with the fishes. Recall what God's Word uses a loaf of Bread as a symbol for (i.e., Christ as The Word, untainted, like the "new wine" idea. John 6:35).

Thus the loaves whole, went out to the multitudes. But what returned with the fishes? Baskets of "fragments", a lot more food than what originally went out to the multitudes, and it was no longer whole, but in pieces.

At the start, Lord Jesus warned about the "leaven" of the Pharisees of king Herod. What does leaven do in baking bread? It makes the bread rise, and thus appear like you've got more bread. Unleavened bread does not rise, and is like pita bread, and very good fresh I must admit since I have been to the middle east in Iran in my military days.

Thus the concept of 'fragments', 'leaven', is about IDEAS ADDED to the whole LOAF of BREAD (God's Word). That's what the baskets of fragments Jesus' disciples gathered back up represents. It reveals the getting away from the pure Load of Bread that God's Word is, and instead cutting it up into pieces. And usually that cutting up means adding to it so you don't get the pure LOAF anymore. That may seem like too much information about what Jesus showed, but it is not. He drew a 'picture' that is worth a thousand words. And He expected His disciples to understand, since they were supposed to have ears to hear and had not hardened their hearts to His Word.

 

[Jay Ross]

Agreed. But you needn't use such a warning to specific people....but to all. Then watch who agrees or not. That is a wiser approach.

You are deflecting in your response away from your own issues that someone has identified. Humility on your part would be a better response.

 

[amigo de christo]

2 Timothy 2:15-19 KJV
15) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16) But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17) And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18) Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19) Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Paul didn't hold back from naming names.

Is someone hoping to hide?

you brought up a good point mark .
So allow me a few parting words .
The next time one of these wacked out leaders says judge not and name not
REMEMBER this well .
I was not the hater mark because i named the names of the many false ones
nor because i warned all to stay far from them .
Thank you mark for brining this lovely reminder to us all today .
Now lets all flee anything nar , RCC , ecumeincal inclusive intefaith .
I aint got time to name all their names , but they sure do lead this people to certain destruction .

 

[Marvelloustime]

you brought up a good point mark .
So allow me a few parting words .
The next time one of these wacked out leaders says judge not and name not
REMEMBER this well .
I was not the hater mark because i named the names of the many false ones
nor because i warned all to stay far from them .
Thank you mark for brining this lovely reminder to us all today .
Now lets all flee anything nar , RCC , ecumeincal inclusive intefaith .
I aint got time to name all their names , but they sure do lead this people to certain destruction .

@amigo de christo

 

[bdavidc]

You are not scripture. And you are the very worst offender here. You condemned yourself based on the fact that you have seen nothing. You think that's fine...but that bible of yours condemns you as someone who teaches falsely from your own imagination.

The fact that you won't listen to the bible proves your stance is gigantically hypocritical

PROVE you listen to the word of God by submitting yourself to it...not just saying you do then ignoring it.

I have rebuked you already. I defend the truth that is contained in the bible that you refuse to listen to.

You keep telling me that I am not Scripture. I have never claimed to be. In fact, that is exactly the point I have been making to you. Neither you nor I have authority over God's Word. We are both accountable to what God has written.

You accuse me of teaching from my imagination because I have supposedly "seen nothing." Yet Paul tells us, "For we walk by faith, not by sight" (2 Corinthians 5:7). And Jesus said, "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed" (John 20:29). Neither passage supports your claim that someone must have the spiritual experiences you demand before he can understand or faithfully teach Scripture.

You say you have rebuked me, but repeating an accusation is not the same as proving it from God's Word. Acts 17:11 commends those who examined the Scriptures daily to determine whether what they were being taught was true. That is the standard I am asking you to follow.

If I am teaching something contrary to Scripture, show me the passage, explain it in context, and demonstrate where I am wrong. I will gladly examine it. But your claims about what I supposedly cannot see do not establish biblical truth.

And you still have not addressed the warning from Daniel 5. Belshazzar knew what God had done, yet refused to humble himself. Daniel 5:22 says, "But you his son, Belshazzar, have not humbled your heart, although you knew all this."

You can continue accusing me, but your accusations will never replace Scripture. The question remains: Can you demonstrate that what you teach is actually what God has written, or are you expecting others to accept your claimed spiritual understanding as authority?

That is the issue, Episkopos. And until you address it from Scripture, you have not answered my warning.

 

[bdavidc]

What I have told you about the 'new wine' and 'old bottles' is not... a private interpretation. Just you claiming that shows all the more your lack of understanding about it.

Simply declaring that your interpretation is not private doesn't prove anything. Neither does repeatedly telling me I lack understanding. You are still avoiding the question I asked you.

Jesus gave the parable of the new wine and old wineskins in Luke 5:36-39. If your explanation is correct, you should be able to demonstrate it from the passage and its context. That is all I have asked you to do.

Paul instructed Timothy, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15). Notice that the responsibility is to handle God's Word correctly, not to claim an understanding that others supposedly lack.

And Peter warned that some twist the Scriptures "to their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:16). That should make every one of us careful about assigning meanings to passages that the text itself does not establish.

So stop telling me what I supposedly cannot understand and show me what Jesus actually said. Explain how the context of Luke 5 supports your interpretation of the new wine and old wineskins. Then do the same with your interpretation of the barren women in Luke 23.

If your teaching is biblical, you should welcome that examination rather than dismissing the person asking for Scripture.

Your confidence in your interpretation is not evidence that it is correct. God's Word is the standard, not your claim to understand it.

 

[amigo de christo]

You keep telling me that I am not Scripture. I have never claimed to be. In fact, that is exactly the point I have been making to you. Neither you nor I have authority over God's Word. We are both accountable to what God has written.

You accuse me of teaching from my imagination because I have supposedly "seen nothing." Yet Paul tells us, "For we walk by faith, not by sight" (2 Corinthians 5:7). And Jesus said, "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed" (John 20:29). Neither passage supports your claim that someone must have the spiritual experiences you demand before he can understand or faithfully teach Scripture.

You say you have rebuked me, but repeating an accusation is not the same as proving it from God's Word. Acts 17:11 commends those who examined the Scriptures daily to determine whether what they were being taught was true. That is the standard I am asking you to follow.

If I am teaching something contrary to Scripture, show me the passage, explain it in context, and demonstrate where I am wrong. I will gladly examine it. But your claims about what I supposedly cannot see do not establish biblical truth.

And you still have not addressed the warning from Daniel 5. Belshazzar knew what God had done, yet refused to humble himself. Daniel 5:22 says, "But you his son, Belshazzar, have not humbled your heart, although you knew all this."

You can continue accusing me, but your accusations will never replace Scripture. The question remains: Can you demonstrate that what you teach is actually what God has written, or are you expecting others to accept your claimed spiritual understanding as authority?

That is the issue, Episkopos. And until you address it from Scripture, you have not answered my warning.

Heed not a word one outta that mans mouth .
HE words plays . And the absolute worse thing he does . the man believes in and preaches a false inclusive gospel .
Now he might be fooling some , but not me . But as you will soon see
This church age WILL GO the way that EPI did . That is a fact .
ONLY the sheep will not . And the sheep are not the many but are the few .

 

[Episkopos]

You keep telling me that I am not Scripture. I have never claimed to be. In fact, that is exactly the point I have been making to you. Neither you nor I have authority over God's Word. We are both accountable to what God has written.

You accuse me of teaching from my imagination because I have supposedly "seen nothing." Yet Paul tells us, "For we walk by faith, not by sight" (2 Corinthians 5:7). And Jesus said, "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed" (John 20:29). Neither passage supports your claim that someone must have the spiritual experiences you demand before he can understand or faithfully teach Scripture.

You say you have rebuked me, but repeating an accusation is not the same as proving it from God's Word. Acts 17:11 commends those who examined the Scriptures daily to determine whether what they were being taught was true. That is the standard I am asking you to follow.

If I am teaching something contrary to Scripture, show me the passage, explain it in context, and demonstrate where I am wrong. I will gladly examine it. But your claims about what I supposedly cannot see do not establish biblical truth.

And you still have not addressed the warning from Daniel 5. Belshazzar knew what God had done, yet refused to humble himself. Daniel 5:22 says, "But you his son, Belshazzar, have not humbled your heart, although you knew all this."

You can continue accusing me, but your accusations will never replace Scripture. The question remains: Can you demonstrate that what you teach is actually what God has written, or are you expecting others to accept your claimed spiritual understanding as authority?

That is the issue, Episkopos. And until you address it from Scripture, you have not answered my warning.

I have this thing called a "podcast" where I cite from a book called "The Bible". You are free to criticize anything I actually say from the said book. But you complaining and bellyaching without any context...you just like to type important sounding things without ANY content... is fully unreasonable and self-serving.

Try adding in some actual content and context. You did not write the Bible so you can't take any credit for what's written. Try saying something based on reality rather than inventing issues. What I see is that you have zero understanding or experience of anything that's written...so you are unable to actually criticize anything I say. So you are like a cloud with no rain...an empty talking head.

Try some content.

 

[amigo de christo]

Simply declaring that your interpretation is not private doesn't prove anything. Neither does repeatedly telling me I lack understanding. You are still avoiding the question I asked you.

Jesus gave the parable of the new wine and old wineskins in Luke 5:36-39. If your explanation is correct, you should be able to demonstrate it from the passage and its context. That is all I have asked you to do.

Paul instructed Timothy, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15). Notice that the responsibility is to handle God's Word correctly, not to claim an understanding that others supposedly lack.

And Peter warned that some twist the Scriptures "to their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:16). That should make every one of us careful about assigning meanings to passages that the text itself does not establish.

So stop telling me what I supposedly cannot understand and show me what Jesus actually said. Explain how the context of Luke 5 supports your interpretation of the new wine and old wineskins. Then do the same with your interpretation of the barren women in Luke 23.

If your teaching is biblical, you should welcome that examination rather than dismissing the person asking for Scripture.

Your confidence in your interpretation is not evidence that it is correct. God's Word is the standard, not your claim to understand it.

Avoiding , did you just that epi is still avoiding the question . Do feel free to ask me
HOW I KNOW this is very true . the man wont directly answer a few of my questions .
NAMELy
THIS . when i told him GO on epi , go on and tell that athiest of his dire need TO BELEIVE ON JE SUS
or heck tell the false religoins , go on and say WE MUST absolutely beleive on JESUS
first and foremost .
SUPRISE , or NO SUPRISE , HE WOULD NOT DO IT .

 

[bdavidc]

I have this thing called a "podcast" where I cite from a book called "The Bible". You are free to criticize anything I actually say from the said book. But you complaining and bellyaching without any context...you just like to type important sounding things without ANY content... is fully unreasonable and self-serving.

Try adding in some actual content and context. You did not write the Bible so you can't take any credit for what's written. Try saying something based on reality rather than inventing issues. What I see is that you have zero understanding or experience of anything that's written...so you are unable to actually criticize anything I say. So you are like a cloud with no rain...an empty talking head.

Try some content.

You accuse me of having no content while filling your response with personal insults and not addressing a single Scripture I presented. Your insults are not biblical arguments, and your podcast is not proof that your teaching is true.

Even Satan quoted Scripture (Matthew 4:6). The issue is whether you handle God's Word truthfully.

Paul warned against those who are “vainly puffed up by [their] fleshly mind” (Colossians 2:18). Claiming superior spiritual understanding while belittling others proves nothing.

I have given you Scripture. You have given me insults. If I have misused God's Word, demonstrate it from the text and its context.

Stop boasting about what you supposedly see and start proving what you teach. Your spiritual claims carry no authority over the written Word of God. Give me the URL to your podcast, and I'll gladly examine your teachings against Scripture. If you're promoting false doctrine there as you do here, I'll expose it from God's Word and warn those you may be leading astray.

 

[ScottA]

Acts 17:11 commends those who examined the Scriptures daily to determine whether what they were being taught was true.

That's not even true--you are not speaking the truth!

Acts 17:11 only says that some who search the scriptures were "more noble."

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.​

 

[Angelina]

until further notice.