WATER BAPTISM CAUSES DIVISIONS

[Ziggy]

Jesus VIA Paul taught what is required of you & I to be saved & HS sealed
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Col 2:13 << The teachings of Jesus to Paul Gal 1:11-12

Again, WHO did Jesus select and ALL THE APOSTLES agreed was to teach you the Gospel ?
Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 2:7-9, Eph 3:8, 1 Tim 2:7

What do those verses - the teachings of Jesus VIA Paul - teach you ?

Jesus VIA Jesus taught what is required of me to be saved and sealed with His Holy Spirit.
Paul brought into remembrance what Jesus taught His disciples.
But Jesus is The Teacher.


1Jo 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

I can't resist!! LOL

HUGS

 

[sondring7]

Jesus VIA Jesus taught what is required of me to be saved and sealed with His Holy Spirit.
Paul brought into remembrance what Jesus taught His disciples.
But Jesus is The Teacher.


1Jo 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

I can't resist!! LOL

HUGS

You are quoting John
Who did John in Gal 2:7-9 AGREE was to teach you the Gospel ?
Simple question :)

 

[Ziggy]

List the verses where Jesus VIA Paul teaches that Ziggy has to be WATER IMMERSED BAPTIZED to enter Heaven
Just the verses :)

The question is:
Will you listen for yourself?

 

[Ziggy]

You are quoting John
Who did John in Gal 2:7-9 AGREE was to teach you the Gospel ?
Simple question :)

Mat 4:23
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Mat 11:5
The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
Mat 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Paul was sent to testify of God's grace.
Act 20:24
But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Not all disciples have the same ministry. Paul was not sent to baptize and he wasn't sent to teach repentance, as he said, again, as in laying down a foundation that had already been set. But they would do it if it became a necessity to reteach the elementals.

Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3
And this will we do, if God permit.

It's like being the Pastor of a church and knowing every member sitting in the pews have already been baptized by you personally.
And yet there is always that final call incase a person came in unawares.

Paul is saying, We all know the foundation, let's proceed to the next level.
Let's not just preach about doing something, we need to explain why those things we do are not just works but the spiritual meaning behind them.

It's like Moses giving you 2 stones with laws on them but not understanding the spiritual motive behind them.

Jesus showed us what to do, Paul explains why.

Hugs

 

[sondring7]

The question is:
Will you listen for yourself?

and the verses from Paul ( Romans to Philemon) are ?

 

[sondring7]

Mat 4:23
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Mat 11:5
The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
Mat 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Paul was sent to testify of God's grace.
Act 20:24
But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Not all disciples have the same ministry. Paul was not sent to baptize and he wasn't sent to teach repentance, as he said, again, as in laying down a foundation that had already been set. But they would do it if it became a necessity to reteach the elementals.

Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3
And this will we do, if God permit.

It's like being the Pastor of a church and knowing every member sitting in the pews have already been baptized by you personally.
And yet there is always that final call incase a person came in unawares.

Paul is saying, We all know the foundation, let's proceed to the next level.
Let's not just preach about doing something, we need to explain why those things we do are not just works but the spiritual meaning behind them.

It's like Moses giving you 2 stones with laws on them but not understanding the spiritual motive behind them.

Jesus showed us what to do, Paul explains why.

Hugs

and the verse from Jesus VIA Paul (Romans to Philemon) are ?

 

[Ziggy]

who wrote this?

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

or this?

Col 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Listen:

Hugs

 

[sondring7]

who wrote this?

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

or this?

Col 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Listen:

Hugs

WATER IMMERSE BAPTISM is not a condition taught by Jesus VIA Paul to be saved & HS sealed
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 as taught by Jesus to Paul Gal 1:11-12

Keep trying Zig :)

 

[Ziggy]

I guess it comes down to being willing to humble oneself before the world to show the world who you choose to follow.
But more than that, it is to show your Faith to the world that God is merciful and cleanses us from all sin.

When I was born my Mother was of the Catholic religion and so I was water baptized in the church but not by submersion.
At what point of repentance I would find myself at such a young age, I do not know.

When I turned 18 I ventured into a Protestant church and was convicted in my heart that I was a sinner and I needed to repent.
At that time I was baptized again, this time by submersion.

Because that is what Jesus taught us to do.

But I don't believe that baptism alone will save you. You have to have a change in yourself. Not only outwardly but inwardly as well.
And that is what Paul was sent to teach. The inward man and how we should conduct ourselves as the children of God.

2Co 4:16
For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

In the story of Naaman, His physical body was healed.
In the Baptism of Jesus our spirit is healed.

Both bring submission and humbleness of heart and by faith we are healed.

Hugs

 

[sondring7]

I guess it comes down to being willing to humble oneself before the world to show the world who you choose to follow.
But more than that, it is to show your Faith to the world that God is merciful and cleanses us from all sin.

When I was born my Mother was of the Catholic religion and so I was water baptized in the church but not by submersion.
At what point of repentance I would find myself at such a young age, I do not know.

When I turned 18 I ventured into a Protestant church and was convicted in my heart that I was a sinner and I needed to repent.
At that time I was baptized again, this time by submersion.

Because that is what Jesus taught us to do.

But I don't believe that baptism alone will save you. You have to have a change in yourself. Not only outwardly but inwardly as well.
And that is what Paul was sent to teach. The inward man and how we should conduct ourselves as the children of God.

2Co 4:16
For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

In the story of Naaman, His physical body was healed.
In the Baptism of Jesus our spirit is healed.

Both bring submission and humbleness of heart and by faith we are healed.

Hugs

Do you believe that without a WATER IMMERSE BAPTISM you or I can not enter Heaven ?

 

[Ziggy]

Do you believe that without a WATER IMMERSE BAPTISM you or I can not enter Heaven ?

No.
I believe if you are able you should.
Like Philip who met the man on the way to St. Ives. (just kidding)
The Eunuch in the chariot who was confused by the scripture of Isaiah.

Act 8:35
Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Here is the catch, ready?
Act 8:37
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

now what?

Act 8:38
And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Now I say, If believing and having faith can bring a eunuch to his knees to be water baptized. then how proud do you have to be to not want to submit oneself to Jesus' teachings?

Luckily there was a certain water... isn't that curious?
Almost like God made it possible for that man to be baptized almost in the middle of nowhere.

There are other tests of faith that God will put you through. If you don't pass the first test then surely there will be a second or a third each with more severity than the last, until you are broken and your pride is dissolved.
Because that is what baptism is all about. Willing to die to oneself and to follow Him and His righteousness.

Mat 3:13
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Mat 3:15
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

You notice Jesus did not say Me, he said Us, that means us.

It all comes down to being humble. and believing and having faith.
Can you be saved without being fully water baptized? If not by water ....

Luk 3:15
And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;
Luk 3:16
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Luk 3:17
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

Consider the audience. Water in my opinion is much more merciful than fire. But baptized you will be, one way or another.

And look at the results:
Luk 3:21
Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
Luk 3:22
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Because the alternative:
Heb 10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

So my question would be:
Why would you want to resist being baptised by water submersion which is a witness to the outward man that you are dead in your sins, but to the inward man you are brought up from death unto life with a new spirit and a new way of life?

Only Pride stands in the way. And God knows how to break that pride. Either you going to with or without a fight.

Why struggle?

Hugs

Hugs

 

[sondring7]

No.
I believe if you are able you should.
Like Philip who met the man on the way to St. Ives. (just kidding)
The Eunuch in the chariot who was confused by the scripture of Isaiah.

Act 8:35
Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Here is the catch, ready?
Act 8:37
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

now what?

Act 8:38
And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Now I say, If believing and having faith can bring a eunuch to his knees to be water baptized. then how proud do you have to be to not want to submit oneself to Jesus' teachings?

Luckily there was a certain water... isn't that curious?
Almost like God made it possible for that man to be baptized almost in the middle of nowhere.

There are other tests of faith that God will put you through. If you don't pass the first test then surely there will be a second or a third each with more severity than the last, until you are broken and your pride is dissolved.
Because that is what baptism is all about. Willing to die to oneself and to follow Him and His righteousness.

Mat 3:13
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Mat 3:15
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

You notice Jesus did not say Me, he said Us, that means us.

It all comes down to being humble. and believing and having faith.
Can you be saved without being fully water baptized? If not by water ....

Luk 3:15
And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;
Luk 3:16
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Luk 3:17
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

Consider the audience. Water in my opinion is much more merciful than fire. But baptized you will be, one way or another.

And look at the results:
Luk 3:21
Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
Luk 3:22
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Because the alternative:
Heb 10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

So my question would be:
Why would you want to resist being baptised by water submersion which is a witness to the outward man that you are dead in your sins, but to the inward man you are brought up from death unto life with a new spirit and a new way of life?

Only Pride stands in the way. And God knows how to break that pride. Either you going to with or without a fight.

Why struggle?

Hugs

Hugs

Do you believe that without a WATER IMMERSE BAPTISM you or I can not enter Heaven ?
No << Correct
The division is caused by those who refuse to accept that simple truth.

 

[GodsGrace]

I certainly do!

What did Jesus say about the works that God requires? This is the work that God requires: that we believe on him whom he has sent. That faith, which is itself a gift from God, results in good fruit.

Very good translation for
John 6:29 NASB
29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Many understand the above to mean that it is God that is doing the work.
The work of believing in whom HE has sent?? Makes no sense, but it has to be understood this way for monergists that think God will be doing everything for them, even obeying.

Yes sir. Believing is the work that God requires.

 

[GodsGrace]

No.
I believe if you are able you should.

Ziggy,,,I believe I agree with you...have not read all your posts.
This is why I believe we should stop using the word SHOULD.

Such as:
Yes, we SHOULD obey God.
Yes, we SHOULD do good deeds.
Yes, we SHOULD be baptized.

It makes it sound like Jesus handed out suggestions instead of commands.

Just a thought.

Like Philip who met the man on the way to St. Ives. (just kidding)
The Eunuch in the chariot who was confused by the scripture of Isaiah.

Act 8:35
Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Here is the catch, ready?
Act 8:37
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

now what?

Act 8:38
And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Now I say, If believing and having faith can bring a eunuch to his knees to be water baptized. then how proud do you have to be to not want to submit oneself to Jesus' teachings?

Luckily there was a certain water... isn't that curious?
Almost like God made it possible for that man to be baptized almost in the middle of nowhere.

There are other tests of faith that God will put you through. If you don't pass the first test then surely there will be a second or a third each with more severity than the last, until you are broken and your pride is dissolved.
Because that is what baptism is all about. Willing to die to oneself and to follow Him and His righteousness.

Mat 3:13
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Mat 3:15
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

You notice Jesus did not say Me, he said Us, that means us.

It all comes down to being humble. and believing and having faith.
Can you be saved without being fully water baptized? If not by water ....

Luk 3:15
And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;
Luk 3:16
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Luk 3:17
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

Consider the audience. Water in my opinion is much more merciful than fire. But baptized you will be, one way or another.

And look at the results:
Luk 3:21
Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
Luk 3:22
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Because the alternative:
Heb 10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

So my question would be:
Why would you want to resist being baptised by water submersion which is a witness to the outward man that you are dead in your sins, but to the inward man you are brought up from death unto life with a new spirit and a new way of life?

Only Pride stands in the way. And God knows how to break that pride. Either you going to with or without a fight.

Why struggle?

Hugs

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Do you believe that without a WATER IMMERSE BAPTISM you or I can not enter Heaven ?
No << Correct
The division is caused by those who refuse to accept that simple truth.

No with consequences.

 

[sondring7]

No with consequences.

Do you believe that a saved sinner who enters Heaven yet was not water immersed baptized should suffer eternal consequences ?
eg ?

 

[sondring7]

Very good translation for
John 6:29 NASB
29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Many understand the above to mean that it is God that is doing the work.
The work of believing in whom HE has sent?? Makes no sense, but it has to be understood this way for monergists that think God will be doing everything for them, even obeying.

Yes sir. Believing is the work that God requires.

+++Yes sir. Believing is the work that God requires.
Confirmed by Jesus VIA Paul :-
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Col 2:13 - saved, HS sealed, forgiven

 

[Ziggy]

Ziggy,,,I believe I agree with you...have not read all your posts.
This is why I believe we should stop using the word SHOULD.

Such as:
Yes, we SHOULD obey God.
Yes, we SHOULD do good deeds.
Yes, we SHOULD be baptized.

It makes it sound like Jesus handed out suggestions instead of commands.

Just a thought.

That's an interesting thought:

Mar 10:51
And Jesus answered and said unto him, What wilt thou that I should do unto thee? The blind man said unto him, Lord, that I might receive my sight.
Mar 10:52
And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.

It all comes down to faith.

Why should we obey God?
Why should we do good deeds?
Why should we be baptised?

Because we have faith that God is pleased with these acts of righteousness and love and obedience to His way and not our own.

What is the difference between we should and we ought to obey God rather than men?

Act 5:29
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Well, we all get to make our own choices don't we?
And I believe Jesus gave us choices. You can either walk this way or go your own way.
Deu 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

The should is in your court.
Hugs

 

[sondring7]

Ziggy,,,I believe I agree with you...have not read all your posts.
This is why I believe we should stop using the word SHOULD.

Such as:
Yes, we SHOULD obey God.
Yes, we SHOULD do good deeds.
Yes, we SHOULD be baptized.

It makes it sound like Jesus handed out suggestions instead of commands.

Just a thought.

Should V must
What do you believe Jesus VIA Paul taught are the MUSTS for you to enter Heaven ?

 

[Ziggy]

Do you believe that a saved sinner who enters Heaven yet was not water immersed baptized should suffer eternal consequences ?
eg ?

no the consequences would be played out while in your own flesh during this your own lifetime.
uttermost farthing.....

Mat 5:25
Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26
Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

hmm...

Paul considered himself a prisoner of the Lord.

Eph 3:1
For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Eph 4:1
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2Ti 1:8
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

Phm 1:1
Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved, and fellowlabourer,

Phm 1:9
Yet for love's sake I rather beseech thee, being such an one as Paul the aged, and now also a prisoner of Jesus Christ.

Nobody said it was going to be easy.

What do you suppose it means to be a "prisoner" of Jesus Christ?

sa 79:11
Let the sighing of the prisoner come before thee; according to the greatness of thy power preserve thou those that are appointed to die;
Psa 79:12
And render unto our neighbours sevenfold into their bosom their reproach, wherewith they have reproached thee, O Lord.
Psa 79:13
So we thy people and sheep of thy pasture will give thee thanks for ever: we will shew forth thy praise to all generations.

That's like asking if Moses was sent to save the Hebrews and they refused to cross the Red Sea would they still be saved?

Luk 12:47
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Did Jesus command us to be baptized?

Mat 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
at 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Why yes he did.

Hugs