Failed execution of female murderer

[Wrangler]

And frankly, I don't see that as a feminized view of justice. I see it as a Christ-centered one.

Not too many feminists talk about the Christ who said to cut off your hand, pluck out your eye or have a millstone put around your neck for the cause of Justice.

Indeed, we live in a feminized society who has feminized the very masculine Jesus.

 

[Jack]

No. But remember this. Stalin did not rise to power without Gods approval and god knew in advance that Stalin and Hitler would kill over 100,000,000 people.

Yeah, He can do that as I clearly stated. He answers to NOBODY. You answer to Him! Murder is MURDER!

As we are not under teh MOsaic law- those questions are moot.

So why are you preaching MURDER?

 

[Jack]

You flatter me. No human has such power.

Theres eternal Judgment and temporal justice we humans are commanded to you. You no like justice, me thinks. You no like following God’s commands. Good luck on Judgment Day. You'll need a lot of it. How does that shoe fit?

You are choosing to MURDER them instead of putting them in prison where they may get saved or exonerated! YOUR choice to MURDER very possible innocents!

 

[amigo de christo]

No. But remember this. Stalin did not rise to power without Gods approval and god knew in advance that Stalin and Hitler would kill over 100,000,000 people.

As we are not under teh MOsaic law- those questions are moot.

yes . God knew . but we ought never to support such and follow their wicked ways .
Too many cloathed outwardly in wool are hoping in men . And cursed is the one who do so .
Blessed is the man who hopes in GOD , thus in Christ and never once in a false intefaith all inclusive gospel ,
that is NO gospel but is only death twice told unto all who do buy and unto all who do help those
who spread this lie of anti christ . ALWAYS remember that .

 

[amigo de christo]

After reading through this discussion, I believe some are overlooking an important distinction Scripture makes between personal vengeance, God's mercy, and the responsibility of civil government to administer justice.

Romans 12:19 says, “Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”

But immediately afterward, Romans 13:4 describes governing authority as “the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.” Paul also says, “he beareth not the sword in vain.”

There is no contradiction here! God forbids personal vengeance, but He also establishes civil authority to punish wrongdoing. We cannot use the command to show mercy as an excuse to ignore justice, nor should we use justice as an excuse to abandon mercy.

Consider the criminal crucified beside Jesus. He acknowledged in Luke 23:41, “And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds.” Yet when he turned to Christ, Jesus promised him paradise.

That man received God's mercy without escaping the earthly consequences of his crimes.

And Ezekiel 33:11 reminds us that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but calls the wicked to turn from their evil ways and live.

We should never celebrate someone's destruction or forget that even a convicted murderer needs the saving grace of Jesus Christ. But neither should we pretend that repentance automatically removes the responsibility to answer for a crime.

The Bible teaches both justice and mercy. One does not cancel the other.

The real question should not be whether we prefer punishment or forgiveness. It should be whether we are willing to accept everything God has said about both.

God's justice must never be confused with personal revenge, and God's mercy must never be twisted into an excuse for wrongdoing.

Let Scripture determine our understanding rather than allowing personal feelings or opinions to decide what justice and mercy should mean.

Very true my friend .
SO now allow a reminder .
WHY am i seeing a false goodness of God being sold as though its his mercy and love .
It is a lie and it has made the path to what they think is GOD real broad and all inclusive .
SO here is the love of GOD . That we keep his commandments . TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST
and to love one another .
Not to follow some false religoin and t ry and all find common ground . what a lie that one is .
And as far as justice and vengeance . HOW come so many seem to now omit the severity of GOD
and has removed the lake of fire , and as preached a false goodness of God that made that road REAL broad .
I seem a mercy and a love gettin g sold , only its not mercy nor love and it darn sure aint of GOD .
IT has omit ted the dire need to BELIEVE On JESUS and sold a big ol kuymbia good ending for all .
Someone lying to this generation and it has sold a harlots love as though it were the Love of God .
And in that love and on that inclusive wide road , i see sins being called good
and the gospel itself being called evil as they now even say JUDGE Not the false religoins , and call
those who do preach the dire need to believe on JESUS a religious extremist . SO much for inclusivity , I knew
it was of anti christ the first time i seen it .

 

[amigo de christo]

And you keep glossing over the lynch mob Jesus faced from a judicial court who has the burden to decide such things.

And do remember ye shall not hate your neighbor in your heart but you shall correct him and now allow SIN upon him .
A FALSE GOSPEL IS SIN wrangler . a false all inclusive gospel IS sin and its a dire sin too .
FOR if one believes NOT that JESUS IS the CHRIST they will DIE in their sin .
SO ENJOY the budda song buddy cause the all inclusive ecumeincal train of intefaith IS ALL A LIE of anti christ .

 

[amigo de christo]

You are choosing to MURDER them instead of putting them in prison where they may get saved or exonerated! YOUR choice to MURDER very possible innocents!

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen! Same here.

you do realize the churches in hitlers days
were not heeding the warnings the few were giving out .
They was too busy hoping in man who had promised them prosperity
and had even put pictures of him up in churches .
OH a few tried to warn them but many did not hear .
When the cry to kill in the name of so called Justice cometh again
THEY WILL HEED IT my friend . And they will even be co helpers to putting the true sheep to death .
And all will believe it was necessary for peace
and all will beleive it was God , and his plan for peace . This g eneration
has no idea what it made its bed with when it embraced an ecumeincal all inlcusive harlot .
And on the day of JESUS they shall wail f or it .

 

[Jack]

you do realize the churches in hitlers days
were not heeding the warnings the few were giving out .
They was too busy hoping in man who had promised them prosperity
and had even put pictures of him up in churches .
OH a few tried to warn them but many did not hear .
When the cry to kill in the name of so called Justice cometh again
THEY WILL HEED IT my friend . And they will even be co helpers to putting the true sheep to death .
And all will believe it was necessary for peace
and all will beleive it was God , and his plan for peace . This g eneration
has no idea what it made its bed with when it embraced an ecumeincal all inlcusive harlot .
And on the day of JESUS they shall wail f or it .

The pro MURDERERS will reap what they sow!

 

[Wrangler]

You are choosing to MURDER them instead of putting them in prison where they may get saved or exonerated! YOUR choice to MURDER very possible innocents!

They are not innocent and killing them isn‘t murder.

 

[Jack]

They are not innocent

You don't know that! Why are you saying that? No mercy? You won't get mercy on Judgment Day!

and killing them isn‘t murder.

It is indeed MURDER when you insist on killing people and you don't KNOW if they are guilty! YOU DON'T KNOW!!! Put them in prison. Don't MURDER them! Many have spent years in prison and then found to be innocent! Why are you obsessed with killing people???

 

[Wrangler]

You don't know that!

We all know that they are not innocent. Ignore Micah 6:8 at your own peril.

YOU DON'T KNOW!!!

Take your meds.

 

[Jack]

We all know that they are not innocent.

Wow! What a WHOPPER! They? lol!

Ignore Micah 6:8 at your own peril.

Why didn't you quote it? Give us some NT. I will.

James 2:13
13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy;

And that is the doctrine you are preaching! NO MERCY!

Take your meds.

I do every day. It's called the Bible. Why do you want to kill people???????????????????

 

[Moonwood]

There is only one kind of understanding of justice, just as there is only one kind of understanding of door knob.

Mercy is not a primary concept; it only has application AFTER justice has been rendered, a person has been found guilty AND the sentence for that guilt pronounced, if not identified; THEN AND ONLY THEN do mitigating factors that may be taken into account play a role for mercy.

For instance, if 10 years is the sentence for a crime and the defendant is given 9 years, they were shown mercy. If another defendent who was found guilty received only 12 months, they too were shown mercy.

Every post you make side steps the establishment of justice as a primary over and providing context to mercy. Why is that? Said differently, it is illogical to consider mercy UNTIL one knows what they deserve. In the above example, if a defendant guilty of a crime where the sentence was 6 months, the judge ordering 12 months of incarceration would NOT be an act of mercy. You must know this is true.

I agree that Christians should desire the repentance, conversion, and salvation of sinners. Scripture is clear about that. God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked but desires that they turn and live (Ezekiel 33:11).

Where I think we differ is in the conclusion drawn from that truth.

The fact that Christians should hope for a sinner's conversion does not mean punishment becomes irrelevant, unjust, or contrary to Christian charity.

In Scripture, repentance and punishment often coexist rather than exclude one another. King David repented and was forgiven, yet he still suffered temporal consequences for his sin. The repentant thief was promised paradise by Christ, yet he still underwent his earthly sentence. God's mercy did not erase every consequence in either case.

I also think John 8 is carrying more weight in your argument than the text itself supports.

Jesus certainly demonstrated mercy toward the adulterous woman. But He was not acting as a civil magistrate issuing a legal ruling for the nation. The central lesson of the passage is Christ's mercy toward sinners and the hypocrisy of the accusers, not a comprehensive doctrine of criminal justice.

So I don't disagree when you say Christ cared about repentance, restoration, and the future of the sinner. Of course He did.

What I question is the assumption that because Christ cared about those things, punishment therefore becomes secondary or somehow contrary to Christian justice.

A Christian can sincerely desire a criminal's repentance, pray for his salvation, treat him with dignity as a person made in God's image, and still recognize that lawful punishment may be just.
In other words, I don't think the choice is:

• either justice,
• or mercy.

Nor do I think the choice is:

• either punishment,
• or repentance.

Christianity repeatedly presents both together.

At Calvary, justice and mercy met. But notice that mercy did not occur because justice was ignored. Mercy was possible because justice was satisfied.

So when I ask what Christians should desire, my answer is: we should desire both. We should desire that the guilty repent and be saved, and we should desire that justice be done. I don't believe Scripture requires us to sacrifice one for the sake of the other.

 

[Moonwood]

Not too many feminists talk about the Christ who said to cut off your hand, pluck out your eye or have a millstone put around your neck for the cause of Justice.

Indeed, we live in a feminized society who has feminized the very masculine Jesus.

Respectfully, I think that's partly why we're talking past each other.

You describe my position as "feminized," but I'm not appealing to modern feminism. I'm appealing to Christ.

Christ is certainly not soft on sin.

He spoke of cutting off a hand or plucking out an eye rather than being led into sin (Matthew 5:29-30).
He warned that it would be better to have a millstone hung around one's neck than to cause little ones to stumble (Luke 17:2).
He drove the money changers from the Temple.
He spoke more about judgment and hell than most people are comfortable acknowledging.

So I agree that modern society often downplays divine judgment and accountability.

Where I disagree is with the idea that emphasizing mercy, repentance, and restoration somehow "feminizes" justice.

Those themes come directly from Christ Himself.

The same Jesus who pronounced judgment also forgave sinners.
The same Jesus who warned of hell ate with tax collectors.
The same Jesus who demanded holiness also sought out the lost sheep.
The same Jesus who spoke of punishment also prayed for His executioners.

That is not a feminized Christ.
That is the Christ of the Gospels.

In fact, I would argue that reducing justice to punishment is just as incomplete as reducing Christ to mercy alone.

Christ embodies both perfect justice and perfect mercy.
Remove justice and you no longer have the biblical Jesus.
Remove mercy and you no longer have the biblical Jesus either.

So when I speak about repentance, conversion, restoration, and God's desire that sinners turn and live, I'm not borrowing those ideas from feminism or modern culture. I'm borrowing them from Scripture.

The question is not whether Jesus was masculine. Of course He was. The question is whether His example permits us to care only about retribution while treating repentance, restoration, and the salvation of the sinner as secondary concerns.

I don't think the Gospels allow that. Christ constantly looked beyond the crime to the soul. He never excused sin, but neither did He regard punishment as the highest good. The highest good was reconciliation with God.
That's not a feminized view of justice. It's a Christ-centered one.

 

[Wrangler]

Why didn't you quote it? Give us some NT.

I did provide NT verses way back in this thread.

I have to disagree with you here @Jack. I know you feel strongly about but killing and murder aren’t the same. Consider the burden these verses put on us:

• Micah 6:8 The LORD God has told us what is right and what he demands: "See that justice is done
• Romans 13:4 if you do what is wrong, be afraid! Because it is not for nothing that he holds the power of the sword; for he is God’s servant, there as an avenger to punish wrongdoers.
• 1 Corinthians 6:3 Don't you know we will judge angels? And if this is so, we can surely judge everyday matters.

I understand your point of letting her come to Christ in prison. It’s irresponsible to deny that just because we’re Christian’s suggest we don’t have Biblical burdens besides evangelism that extend to our supporting civilian authorities carrying out their God given responsibilities.

Being a religious and moral people, we live by the maxim of equal protection under the law. And of course, I’m talking about laws we humans are blessed to enact being a free people. Now, with respect to capital punishment, I stand opposed, in theory. In practice, we must live under the law OR change the law. It is law that separates civilization from barbarism. And you know our God is not a God of chaos but order, laws and ordinances.

An injustice in our system is violating a ‘public and speedy‘ trail. The Fort Hood massacre mass murderer waited 17 years to be given justice. The Tennessee woman waited 30 years. The adjudication should be complete within a lunar cycle, IMO.

 

[Wrangler]

Where I think we differ is

I don't think the choice is:

• either justice,
• or mercy.

These are mutually exclusive, as I pointed out. It is one or the other.

Nor do I think the choice is:

• either punishment,
• or repentance.

These are not mutually exclusive so it can be both or neither or some combination. Where we differ was stated succinctly by @bdavidc here.

After reading through this discussion, I believe some are overlooking an important distinction Scripture makes between personal vengeance, God's mercy, and the responsibility of civil government to administer justice.

Romans 12:19 says, “Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”

But immediately afterward, Romans 13:4 describes governing authority as “the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.” Paul also says, “he beareth not the sword in vain.”

There is no contradiction here! God forbids personal vengeance, but He also establishes civil authority to punish wrongdoing. We cannot use the command to show mercy as an excuse to ignore justice, nor should we use justice as an excuse to abandon mercy.

You are overlooking an important distinction Scripture makes between personal vengeance, God's mercy, and the responsibility of civil government to administer justice. In what capacity are you functioning and speaking on behalf:

A. The warden whose solemn duty is to execute the convicted?​

B. The spiritual advisor who accompanies the condemned in their final walk to be executed?​

C. Protestor outside the prison walls?​

 

[Wrangler]

Where I disagree is with the idea that emphasizing mercy, repentance, and restoration somehow "feminizes" justice.

That's because you consistently contradict yourself. Somehow being outside doesn't mean you're not still inside. Yes, it does. They are mutually exclusive. Either:

A. Give what is earned and deserved.​

B. Do not give what is earned and deserved.​

​

Either the female convict in TN is executed or she's not.

This idea of repentance and restoration is besides the point of justice being carried out or not. You keep talking AS IF it's relevant. And again to @bdavidc point of what you're confusing: important distinction Scripture makes between

1. personal vengeance,
2. God's mercy, and
3. the responsibility of civil government to administer justice.

This thread is not about God's mercy although you are doing everything you can to make it about that. Or make it about anything other than the execution of justice in the case of the OP.

Perhaps most important,y, you are overlooking divine justice, which God loves. When Christ returns, the time for mercy, repentance, and restoration is over. First thing he’ll do is annihilate his enemies. Then there is Judgment day. The bad ass that Jesus is will raise people from the dead for the sole purpose of brutally executing them in the Lake of Fire without mercy. He will kill more people than anyone in history. This is divine justice, completely void of any mercy, repentance or restoration for the damned. It is a frightful thing to be judged by the living God.

 

[Wrangler]

Article from WND on point,

The Left has made it harder to kill Christa Pike: She must die anyway * WorldNetDaily * by Josh Hammer

Murderer's 'botched execution is an astounding embarrassment'

www.wnd.com

 

[Ronald Nolette]

He never says, "Carry on with the execution."

Instead, He exposes hypocrisy, calls for self-examination, and leaves the door open for conversion:

"Neither do I condemn you. Go, and sin no more."

That doesn't abolish authority. It reveals the heart of God toward a guilty person.

What I find interesting is that no one has really engaged that point. The responses keep returning to what governments are allowed to do. I'm asking what Christ's example teaches Christians to desire.
Scripture says:

"I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live." (Ezekiel 33:11)

If God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked and desires repentance, then surely Christians should desire the same.

Once again you are trying to merge civil penalties with Christian forgiveness.

I would go to that woman and share the love of Jesus with her! I do nto wish to see her in teh lake of fire. but I also know that when one murders someone in cold blood, God commanded that persons life to be forfeited, for they are made in the image of God. that command went to Noah. that was the first act of civil government god gave to mankind and it has never been revoked. Not even by Jesus.

forgiving one of their sin is vastly different than holding them accountable for their crimes committed. that is trying to make apples and oranges the same.

If someone abused my chhildren, I would want them to suffer the civil consequences of that. I also would seek to share the gospel woth them. Forgiving them of their sin is completely different than them suffering the proscirbed consequnces that God gave to civil government to impose on crimes committed. Crime and sin- one before god(sin) as judge and ond one before Gods appointed authority for governing a society (judicial systems and laws)