Did Jesus return around 70 AD?

[grafted branch]

27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man
This is the telling verse. Yeshua's return will be a very visible event.
Now the destruction of the Temple, was that the beginning of the end? That is a long end.
The Roman siege of Jerusalem was very localized. What happens in Revelation is worldwide.
And there is no agreement as to what Babylon represents specifically.

Lightning is literally a local event and not a global event, under perfect conditions theoretically a person could observe lightning from a maximum distance of approximately 273 miles (440 kilometers) away. Here’s the formula …



D = (2RH + H2 – 2Rh – h2)1/2
D is the maximum distance that lightning can be observed
R is the distance from the surface of the earth to the center of the earth, estimated at 4,000 miles
H is the height of the clouds, based on Wikipedia’s top most cloud layer that lightning comes from, which is 49,000 feet
h is the height of a person, 6 feet.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Where in time do you see Michael taking a stand in Daniel 12:1? Did He take a stand the cross or do you think He hasn’t taken a stand yet?

We must be careful not to determine the timing of Michael standing up by looking at world history and trying to fit Scripture into historical events. Instead, we must examine the Scriptures themselves and allow God's Word to reveal when Michael stands up. True wisdom comes not from imposing our own understanding upon the prophecy, but from allowing the Word of God to interpret itself and seeking the wisdom of Christ through His Word. So here is my lengthy biblical response if you have spiritual ears to hear.

When Shall Michael Stand Up? The Unsealing of Daniel's Prophecy and the Restoration of the Two Witnesses​

1. The Truth Concerning the Abomination of Desolation​

Daniel 12:11 states:

“And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.”

This is the same abomination of desolation that Jesus Christ referred to in Matthew 24:15:

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)”

Notice that Jesus directs our attention to the prophecy of Daniel. Therefore, we must examine Daniel's prophecy to understand the meaning of the abomination of desolation.

But what does it mean to see this abomination? Is Jesus speaking merely of seeing something with our physical eyes, or does the passage also point to the spiritual discernment necessary to recognize the abomination for what it truly is?

In this interpretation, the abomination of desolation is associated with the corruption of the professing church. God's people must be given spiritual understanding to recognize this corruption and understand the judgment that follows.

2. The Truth Concerning the Great Tribulation and Michael Standing Up​

Daniel 12:1 declares:

“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.”

This passage connects three significant events:

• Michael stands up.
• A time of unprecedented trouble begins.
• God's people, whose names are written in the book, are delivered.

Jesus Christ described the same unparalleled tribulation in Matthew 24:21:

“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”

Both passages describe a time of extraordinary trouble. In this interpretation, the great tribulation represents the darkest period in the world's spiritual history, because it will when the abomination of desolation is exposed and the judgment against the New Testament unfaithful congregation becomes a central part of God's prophetic message.

The question, therefore, is this: When does Michael stand up, and how does this event relate to God's people receiving spiritual understanding and proclaiming His judgment?

3. Daniel's Prophecy Was Sealed Until the Time of the End​

Daniel 12:9–10 states:

“And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.”

Daniel was told that the prophecy would remain sealed until the time of the end. At that time, the wise would understand, while the wicked would continue in their wickedness within the congregation without understanding.

This distinction is important. The prophecy concerns more than the occurrence of certain events; it also concerns the spiritual understanding given to God's Elect at that time so that they can recognize what is taking place.

In this study, the sealed prophecy encompasses the truth concerning the abomination of desolation, the great tribulation, and Michael standing up.

To understand how this sealed truth is revealed, we must examine the book described in Revelation.

4. The Sealed Book in Revelation​

Revelation 5:1 states:

“And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.”

John sees a book sealed with seven seals. The Lamb, Jesus Christ, is the One who opens them.

The seals are opened in Revelation 6:1–17 and 8:1:

• Revelation 6:1 — The first seal is opened.
• Revelation 6:3 — The second seal is opened.
• Revelation 6:5 — The third seal is opened.
• Revelation 6:7 — The fourth seal is opened.
• Revelation 6:9 — The fifth seal is opened.
• Revelation 6:12 — The sixth seal is opened.
• Revelation 8:1 — The seventh seal is opened.

With the opening of the seventh seal, the sequence of seven seals is complete.

In this interpretation, the sealed book corresponds to the prophetic truth that Daniel was commanded to seal until the time of the end. The opening of the seals therefore provides the framework for understanding the revelation of that previously sealed truth.

5. The Open Book and the Command to Prophesy Again​

After the seven seals have been opened, John sees a little book that is already open.

Revelation 10:1–2 states:

“And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,”

John is commanded to take the open book and eat it.

Revelation 10:8–10 states:

“And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.”

Eating the book represents receiving and internalizing its prophetic message. The message is sweet in the mouth but bitter in the belly, signifying the mixed experience of receiving and proclaiming God's word.

John then receives this command:

Revelation 10:11:

“And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.”

The word again is significant. It points to a renewed prophetic proclamation.

But what happened to the testimony before it was restored? Revelation 11 provides the answer through the account of the Two Witnesses.

6. The Two Witnesses and the Silencing of Their Testimony​

Revelation 11:3 states:

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.”

In this interpretation, the Two Witnesses clearly symbolize the testimony of God's people rather than two literal individuals as many though. Their 1,260 days represent a symbolic period during which believers bear witness to God's truth, from Pentecost to the Last Elect being secured, Revelation 7:1-4.

However, their testimony is eventually overcome and silenced.

Revelation 11:7 states:

“And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.”

The beast (body of false prophets and christs) wages spiritual war with their false doctrines to the point that they will be able to overcome the testimony of Faithful Witnesses and silence them. Their truthful testimony is silenced. The witnesses' death is understood symbolically: it is their witness that is killed, not the physical lives of so-called two literal people.

Revelation 11:8–9 describes their bodies lying in the street of the great city, which is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. God is talking about the congregations all over the world where the truth testimony is silenced. Their bodies remain exposed for three and a half days, and the people of the nations refuse to allow them to be buried. In other words, they do not care if the truth has been silenced and they start to rejoice over it because they are glad that their testimony no longer exposes their sins.

In this interpretation, the three and a half days represent a symbolic period during which the testimony of God's people remains silenced. Remember that...

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Continue to next post...​

 

[TribulationSigns]

Continue from previous post...

7. The Spirit of Life Enters the Two Witnesses​

Revelation 11:11 declares:

“And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.”

The witnesses who had been silenced are now restored to life. The Spirit of life from God enters them, and they stand upon their feet. It is not about the resurrected of a physical bodies here. It is their testimony being restored to prophesy again.

This is a crucial point in the prophetic sequence!

In this interpretation, the restoration of the Two Witnesses corresponds to the renewed testimony of God's people. What was once silenced is brought back to life, enabling the witnesses to resume their prophetic mission. However it won't be a message of salvation, but judgment against unfaithful congregation for rejecting the faithful testimony.

This is where the connection with Daniel 12:1 becomes central!

Daniel declares that Michael, the great Prince, who is actually Jesus Christ, shall stand up at the time of unprecedented trouble. Revelation describes the Spirit of life entering the Two Witnesses, causing them to stand upon their feet.

The proposed connection is that Michael standing up marks the time when Christ acts in connection with the restoration of His people's testimony, enabling them to stand and bear witness again against His unfaithful congregation.

The passages do not explicitly state that these are the same event, but this interpretation connects them through the parallel language of standing up, the time of trouble, and the restoration of God's people.

8. The Witnesses Recognize the Abomination and Prophesy Judgment​

Once the Two Witnesses are restored, Revelation 10:11 gives the command:

“Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.”

In this interpretation, the renewed prophetic witness involves more than simply repeating an earlier message. At that time, only God's people are given spiritual understanding to recognize the abomination of desolation and expose the corruption of the unfaithful church.

They proclaim God's truth and declare His judgment against this spiritual corruption. This is how God prophesy through His faithful Witnesses to warn those in unfaithful congregation as a judgment upon them.

The connection with Daniel 12:9–10 is important: the prophecy was sealed until the time of the end, when the wise would understand. This is the only time when the witness start to "see" the abomination of desolation and prophesy against it as they comes out of unfaithful congregations.

Thus, the restoration of the Two Witnesses signifies, in this interpretation, the revival of a testimony that can once again discern and proclaim the truth concerning the abomination of desolation.

The message is bitter because it exposes spiritual corruption and announces judgment. Yet it is also sweet because God's truth is revealed and His people are given understanding. This is "WHEN" Michael stands up, resurrects His Witnesses with a testimony of judgment, and delivery them when the one hour of judgment of Babylon the great is complete.

9. Seeing the Abomination Means Knowing When to Flee​

Jesus did not merely tell His hearers to recognize the abomination of desolation. He also told them what to do when they saw it. Flee!

Matthew 24:15–16 states:

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:”

Notice the sequence: they see the abomination, understand its significance, and then flee.

In this interpretation, the command to flee has a spiritual application. When God's people are given understanding to recognize the abomination, they must respond by separating themselves from the fallen church. This is not about Jews fleeing physical Judaea here!

Allow me to explain a bit on this:

We must NOT automatically assume that Matthew 24:16 refers to the Jews fleeing Jerusalem from the Roman armies in AD 70. Jesus specifically said, “whoso readeth, let him understand” (Matthew 24:15), emphasizing the need for spiritual understanding rather than merely making assumptions based on historical events. Selah!

In God's eyes, Judaea represents the New Testament congregation, where the abomination of desolation stands. When Christ restores the testimony of His faithful witnesses, they are given spiritual understanding to recognize this abomination and proclaim God's judgment against the fallen church. This understanding also enables God's people to heed the command of Revelation 18:4: “Come out of her, my people.” Yet many insist that this prophecy concerns only AD 70 because they fail to consider the spiritual significance of Judaea and the connection between Christ's warning and God's call to come out of Babylon the Great.
God's people must heed the warning and act upon the truth they have received.

This brings us to the corresponding command in Revelation 18.

10. God's Command to Come Out of Babylon the Great​

Revelation 18:4 declares:

“And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”

Here, God commands His people to come out of Babylon the Great so that they will not share in her sins or receive her plague judgment as described in Revelation 16.

In this interpretation, Babylon the Great represents the unfaithful congregation from which God's people must separate themselves.

Consider the parallel:

Matthew 24:15–16: When God's people see the abomination of desolation, they are commanded to flee.

Revelation 18:4: When God's people are confronted with Babylon the Great and her sins, they are commanded to come out of her.

Both passages contain a warning followed by a command to separate from a source of spiritual danger.

The connection proposed in this study is that the spiritual discernment associated with the revelation of the abomination of desolation enables God's people to recognize the need to come out of Babylon the Great.

The restored testimony of the Two Witnesses therefore includes a warning to God's people: recognize the corruption, do not participate in its sins, and heed God's call to come out before judgment falls.

11. The Complete Prophetic Sequence​

We can now bring the passages together.

1. Daniel's prophecy is sealed. The truth concerning the abomination of desolation and the great tribulation remains sealed until the time of the end (Daniel 12:9–10).
2. The sealed book is opened. The Lamb opens the seven seals, and Revelation subsequently presents an open little book (Revelation 5–10).
3. The Two Witnesses' testimony is silenced. The beast overcomes them after they finish their testimony (Revelation 11:3–9).
4. Michael stands up in connection with the time of trouble. Daniel 12:1 places His standing up at the time of unprecedented tribulation and the deliverance of God's elect.
5. The Spirit of life restores the Two Witnesses. They stand upon their feet after three and a half symbolic days (Revelation 11:11).
6. The witnesses prophesy again. Their testimony is restored, and in this interpretation they proclaim the truth concerning the abomination of desolation and judgment against the fallen church (Revelation 10:11).
7. God's people are called to come out of Babylon the Great. They must separate themselves from her sins rather than share in her judgment (Revelation 18:4).
8. After the judgment of the unfaithful church is finished, Christ appears in the air on the LAST DAY.

Conclusion: Michael Standing Up and the Restoration of God's Testimony​

To answer your question, WHEN shall Michael stand up?

According to God's Word, Michael's standing up in Daniel 12:1 is connected with the time when Christ acts to restore the testimony of His people. The Spirit of life enters the Two Witnesses, they stand upon their feet, and their prophetic witness begins again.

With their testimony restored, God's people are given understanding to recognize the spiritual abomination of desolation and proclaim God's judgment against the unfaithful church. Their message also calls God's people to separate themselves from spiritual corruption.

This connects Daniel 12:1 with Revelation 10:11, Revelation 11:11, Matthew 24:15–16, and Revelation 18:4.

The central message is this: Christ stands up, His people's testimony is restored, the spiritual abomination is exposed, judgment is proclaimed, and God's people are warned to come out of Babylon the Great.

The restoration of the Two Witnesses is therefore understood not merely as a return to their former testimony, but as the beginning of a renewed prophetic witness in which God's truth is revealed, spiritual corruption is exposed, and God's people are called to heed His warning before judgment comes.

And what about 70 AD and the first century? Not a chance! That was not when Michael stood up. This prophecy points to events in the future—or, more accurately, it may already be unfolding right now, based on what I am witnessing within God’s congregations around the world. As wickedness continues to increase, we must pay close attention to what is happening spiritually among God’s people! As I said before many times, it is spiritual discerned!

Selah!

 

[Davidpt]

From Revelation 20:2 the dragon is the Devil and Satan. Since Michael defeats the dragon, if Michael is not Christ then we would have an angel with less authority having the ability to defeat Satan.

I haven’t studied this idea but if there is a verse that shows the hierarchy of power then that could be used in an argument for Michael being Christ.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Take this verse, for example. Jesus doesn't say He is going to send Michael's angels. He said He's going to send His own angels. Actually, pretty much whenever a passage involves Jesus and angels working together, it's always His angels not Michael's angels. Which could mean Jesus and Michael are one and the same, since we don't ever see any examples of Jesus sending Michael's angels.

 

[SeekTruth]

27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man
This is the telling verse. Yeshua's return will be a very visible event.
Now the destruction of the Temple, was that the beginning of the end? That is a long end.
The Roman siege of Jerusalem was very localized. What happens in Revelation is worldwide.
And there is no agreement as to what Babylon represents specifically.

Imho, Babylon was Jerusalem. There are many hints. But what do you think Babylon is.

 

[Grailhunter]

Lightning is literally a local event and not a global event, under perfect conditions theoretically a person could observe lightning from a maximum distance of approximately 273 miles (440 kilometers) away. Here’s the formula

LOL Matthew 24:27 says, “For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man,”

But I am not just talking about the sign in the sky, I am talking about the events of Revelation will be worldwide.

 

[Davidpt]

Continue from previous post...

7. The Spirit of Life Enters the Two Witnesses​

Revelation 11:11 declares:


The witnesses who had been silenced are now restored to life. The Spirit of life from God enters them, and they stand upon their feet. It is not about the resurrected of a physical bodies here. It is their testimony being restored to prophesy again.

This is a crucial point in the prophetic sequence!

In this interpretation, the restoration of the Two Witnesses corresponds to the renewed testimony of God's people. What was once silenced is brought back to life, enabling the witnesses to resume their prophetic mission. However it won't be a message of salvation, but judgment against unfaithful congregation for rejecting the faithful testimony.

This is where the connection with Daniel 12:1 becomes central!

Daniel declares that Michael, the great Prince, who is actually Jesus Christ, shall stand up at the time of unprecedented trouble. Revelation describes the Spirit of life entering the Two Witnesses, causing them to stand upon their feet.

The proposed connection is that Michael standing up marks the time when Christ acts in connection with the restoration of His people's testimony, enabling them to stand and bear witness again against His unfaithful congregation.

The passages do not explicitly state that these are the same event, but this interpretation connects them through the parallel language of standing up, the time of trouble, and the restoration of God's people.

8. The Witnesses Recognize the Abomination and Prophesy Judgment​

Once the Two Witnesses are restored, Revelation 10:11 gives the command:


In this interpretation, the renewed prophetic witness involves more than simply repeating an earlier message. At that time, only God's people are given spiritual understanding to recognize the abomination of desolation and expose the corruption of the unfaithful church.

They proclaim God's truth and declare His judgment against this spiritual corruption. This is how God prophesy through His faithful Witnesses to warn those in unfaithful congregation as a judgment upon them.

The connection with Daniel 12:9–10 is important: the prophecy was sealed until the time of the end, when the wise would understand. This is the only time when the witness start to "see" the abomination of desolation and prophesy against it as they comes out of unfaithful congregations.

Thus, the restoration of the Two Witnesses signifies, in this interpretation, the revival of a testimony that can once again discern and proclaim the truth concerning the abomination of desolation.

The message is bitter because it exposes spiritual corruption and announces judgment. Yet it is also sweet because God's truth is revealed and His people are given understanding. This is "WHEN" Michael stands up, resurrects His Witnesses with a testimony of judgment, and delivery them when the one hour of judgment of Babylon the great is complete.

9. Seeing the Abomination Means Knowing When to Flee​

Jesus did not merely tell His hearers to recognize the abomination of desolation. He also told them what to do when they saw it. Flee!

Matthew 24:15–16 states:


Notice the sequence: they see the abomination, understand its significance, and then flee.

In this interpretation, the command to flee has a spiritual application. When God's people are given understanding to recognize the abomination, they must respond by separating themselves from the fallen church. This is not about Jews fleeing physical Judaea here!

Allow me to explain a bit on this:

We must NOT automatically assume that Matthew 24:16 refers to the Jews fleeing Jerusalem from the Roman armies in AD 70. Jesus specifically said, “whoso readeth, let him understand” (Matthew 24:15), emphasizing the need for spiritual understanding rather than merely making assumptions based on historical events. Selah!

In God's eyes, Judaea represents the New Testament congregation, where the abomination of desolation stands. When Christ restores the testimony of His faithful witnesses, they are given spiritual understanding to recognize this abomination and proclaim God's judgment against the fallen church. This understanding also enables God's people to heed the command of Revelation 18:4: “Come out of her, my people.” Yet many insist that this prophecy concerns only AD 70 because they fail to consider the spiritual significance of Judaea and the connection between Christ's warning and God's call to come out of Babylon the Great.
God's people must heed the warning and act upon the truth they have received.

This brings us to the corresponding command in Revelation 18.

10. God's Command to Come Out of Babylon the Great​

Revelation 18:4 declares:


Here, God commands His people to come out of Babylon the Great so that they will not share in her sins or receive her plague judgment as described in Revelation 16.

In this interpretation, Babylon the Great represents the unfaithful congregation from which God's people must separate themselves.

Consider the parallel:

Matthew 24:15–16: When God's people see the abomination of desolation, they are commanded to flee.

Revelation 18:4: When God's people are confronted with Babylon the Great and her sins, they are commanded to come out of her.

Both passages contain a warning followed by a command to separate from a source of spiritual danger.

The connection proposed in this study is that the spiritual discernment associated with the revelation of the abomination of desolation enables God's people to recognize the need to come out of Babylon the Great.

The restored testimony of the Two Witnesses therefore includes a warning to God's people: recognize the corruption, do not participate in its sins, and heed God's call to come out before judgment falls.

11. The Complete Prophetic Sequence​

We can now bring the passages together.

1. Daniel's prophecy is sealed. The truth concerning the abomination of desolation and the great tribulation remains sealed until the time of the end (Daniel 12:9–10).
2. The sealed book is opened. The Lamb opens the seven seals, and Revelation subsequently presents an open little book (Revelation 5–10).
3. The Two Witnesses' testimony is silenced. The beast overcomes them after they finish their testimony (Revelation 11:3–9).
4. Michael stands up in connection with the time of trouble. Daniel 12:1 places His standing up at the time of unprecedented tribulation and the deliverance of God's elect.
5. The Spirit of life restores the Two Witnesses. They stand upon their feet after three and a half symbolic days (Revelation 11:11).
6. The witnesses prophesy again. Their testimony is restored, and in this interpretation they proclaim the truth concerning the abomination of desolation and judgment against the fallen church (Revelation 10:11).
7. God's people are called to come out of Babylon the Great. They must separate themselves from her sins rather than share in her judgment (Revelation 18:4).
8. After the judgment of the unfaithful church is finished, Christ appears in the air on the LAST DAY.

Conclusion: Michael Standing Up and the Restoration of God's Testimony​

To answer your question, WHEN shall Michael stand up?

According to God's Word, Michael's standing up in Daniel 12:1 is connected with the time when Christ acts to restore the testimony of His people. The Spirit of life enters the Two Witnesses, they stand upon their feet, and their prophetic witness begins again.

With their testimony restored, God's people are given understanding to recognize the spiritual abomination of desolation and proclaim God's judgment against the unfaithful church. Their message also calls God's people to separate themselves from spiritual corruption.

This connects Daniel 12:1 with Revelation 10:11, Revelation 11:11, Matthew 24:15–16, and Revelation 18:4.

The central message is this: Christ stands up, His people's testimony is restored, the spiritual abomination is exposed, judgment is proclaimed, and God's people are warned to come out of Babylon the Great.

The restoration of the Two Witnesses is therefore understood not merely as a return to their former testimony, but as the beginning of a renewed prophetic witness in which God's truth is revealed, spiritual corruption is exposed, and God's people are called to heed His warning before judgment comes.

And what about 70 AD and the first century? Not a chance! That was not when Michael stood up. This prophecy points to events in the future—or, more accurately, it may already be unfolding right now, based on what I am witnessing within God’s congregations around the world. As wickedness continues to increase, we must pay close attention to what is happening spiritually among God’s people! As I said before many times, it is spiritual discerned!

Selah!

Do you ever use AIs to help you write posts? I'm not saying AIs doing your thinking for you, but doing your writing for you. The reason I'm curious, sometimes you come across as anti-ai which would be rather bizarre if you are using AIs to write your posts for you.

 

[SeekTruth]

LOL Matthew 24:27 says, “For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man,”

But I am not just talking about the sign in the sky, I am talking about the events of Revelation will be worldwide.

How do you know it is literally worldwide

 

[Grailhunter]

Imho, Babylon was Jerusalem. There are many hints. But what do you think Babylon is.

I would say it is a generic name for the power of the world, bad power. Whatever nation or nations that is during the Revelation event.

 

[Davidpt]

Imho, Babylon was Jerusalem. There are many hints. But what do you think Babylon is.

It has to square with Revelation 18:21 then. Once that verse is fulfilled---and shall be found no more at all---it has to be meaning as if it never existed to begin with since there is no trace of it ever again, forever and ever. Jerusalem in the middle east is still on the map and is not meaning new Jerusalem.

 

[grafted branch]

And what about 70 AD and the first century? Not a chance! That was not when Michael stood up. This prophecy points to events in the future—or, more accurately, it may already be unfolding right now, based on what I am witnessing within God’s congregations around the world. As wickedness continues to increase, we must pay close attention to what is happening spiritually among God’s people! As I said before many times, it is spiritual discerned!

I actually agree with a fair amount of how you’re connecting things together. I differ from you in that I see old covenant Israel as the one that goes apostate rather than the new covenant church. That’s why I personally would place Michael standing at the cross, not at some future time.

 

[SeekTruth]

Continue from previous post... ​

​

7. The Spirit of Life Enters the Two Witnesses​

Revelation 11:11 declares:


The witnesses who had been silenced are now restored to life. The Spirit of life from God enters them, and they stand upon their feet. It is not about the resurrected of a physical bodies here. It is their testimony being restored to prophesy again.

This is a crucial point in the prophetic sequence!

In this interpretation, the restoration of the Two Witnesses corresponds to the renewed testimony of God's people. What was once silenced is brought back to life, enabling the witnesses to resume their prophetic mission. However it won't be a message of salvation, but judgment against unfaithful congregation for rejecting the faithful testimony.

This is where the connection with Daniel 12:1 becomes central!

Daniel declares that Michael, the great Prince, who is actually Jesus Christ, shall stand up at the time of unprecedented trouble. Revelation describes the Spirit of life entering the Two Witnesses, causing them to stand upon their feet.

The proposed connection is that Michael standing up marks the time when Christ acts in connection with the restoration of His people's testimony, enabling them to stand and bear witness again against His unfaithful congregation.

The passages do not explicitly state that these are the same event, but this interpretation connects them through the parallel language of standing up, the time of trouble, and the restoration of God's people.

8. The Witnesses Recognize the Abomination and Prophesy Judgment​

Once the Two Witnesses are restored, Revelation 10:11 gives the command:


In this interpretation, the renewed prophetic witness involves more than simply repeating an earlier message. At that time, only God's people are given spiritual understanding to recognize the abomination of desolation and expose the corruption of the unfaithful church.

They proclaim God's truth and declare His judgment against this spiritual corruption. This is how God prophesy through His faithful Witnesses to warn those in unfaithful congregation as a judgment upon them.

The connection with Daniel 12:9–10 is important: the prophecy was sealed until the time of the end, when the wise would understand. This is the only time when the witness start to "see" the abomination of desolation and prophesy against it as they comes out of unfaithful congregations.

Thus, the restoration of the Two Witnesses signifies, in this interpretation, the revival of a testimony that can once again discern and proclaim the truth concerning the abomination of desolation.

The message is bitter because it exposes spiritual corruption and announces judgment. Yet it is also sweet because God's truth is revealed and His people are given understanding. This is "WHEN" Michael stands up, resurrects His Witnesses with a testimony of judgment, and delivery them when the one hour of judgment of Babylon the great is complete.

9. Seeing the Abomination Means Knowing When to Flee​

Jesus did not merely tell His hearers to recognize the abomination of desolation. He also told them what to do when they saw it. Flee!

Matthew 24:15–16 states:


Notice the sequence: they see the abomination, understand its significance, and then flee.

In this interpretation, the command to flee has a spiritual application. When God's people are given understanding to recognize the abomination, they must respond by separating themselves from the fallen church. This is not about Jews fleeing physical Judaea here!

Allow me to explain a bit on this:

We must NOT automatically assume that Matthew 24:16 refers to the Jews fleeing Jerusalem from the Roman armies in AD 70. Jesus specifically said, “whoso readeth, let him understand” (Matthew 24:15), emphasizing the need for spiritual understanding rather than merely making assumptions based on historical events. Selah!

In God's eyes, Judaea represents the New Testament congregation, where the abomination of desolation stands. When Christ restores the testimony of His faithful witnesses, they are given spiritual understanding to recognize this abomination and proclaim God's judgment against the fallen church. This understanding also enables God's people to heed the command of Revelation 18:4: “Come out of her, my people.” Yet many insist that this prophecy concerns only AD 70 because they fail to consider the spiritual significance of Judaea and the connection between Christ's warning and God's call to come out of Babylon the Great.
God's people must heed the warning and act upon the truth they have received.

This brings us to the corresponding command in Revelation 18.

10. God's Command to Come Out of Babylon the Great​

Revelation 18:4 declares:


Here, God commands His people to come out of Babylon the Great so that they will not share in her sins or receive her plague judgment as described in Revelation 16.

In this interpretation, Babylon the Great represents the unfaithful congregation from which God's people must separate themselves.

Consider the parallel:

Matthew 24:15–16: When God's people see the abomination of desolation, they are commanded to flee.

Revelation 18:4: When God's people are confronted with Babylon the Great and her sins, they are commanded to come out of her.

Both passages contain a warning followed by a command to separate from a source of spiritual danger.

The connection proposed in this study is that the spiritual discernment associated with the revelation of the abomination of desolation enables God's people to recognize the need to come out of Babylon the Great.

The restored testimony of the Two Witnesses therefore includes a warning to God's people: recognize the corruption, do not participate in its sins, and heed God's call to come out before judgment falls.

11. The Complete Prophetic Sequence​

We can now bring the passages together.

1. Daniel's prophecy is sealed. The truth concerning the abomination of desolation and the great tribulation remains sealed until the time of the end (Daniel 12:9–10).
2. The sealed book is opened. The Lamb opens the seven seals, and Revelation subsequently presents an open little book (Revelation 5–10).
3. The Two Witnesses' testimony is silenced. The beast overcomes them after they finish their testimony (Revelation 11:3–9).
4. Michael stands up in connection with the time of trouble. Daniel 12:1 places His standing up at the time of unprecedented tribulation and the deliverance of God's elect.
5. The Spirit of life restores the Two Witnesses. They stand upon their feet after three and a half symbolic days (Revelation 11:11).
6. The witnesses prophesy again. Their testimony is restored, and in this interpretation they proclaim the truth concerning the abomination of desolation and judgment against the fallen church (Revelation 10:11).
7. God's people are called to come out of Babylon the Great. They must separate themselves from her sins rather than share in her judgment (Revelation 18:4).
8. After the judgment of the unfaithful church is finished, Christ appears in the air on the LAST DAY.

Conclusion: Michael Standing Up and the Restoration of God's Testimony​

To answer your question, WHEN shall Michael stand up?

According to God's Word, Michael's standing up in Daniel 12:1 is connected with the time when Christ acts to restore the testimony of His people. The Spirit of life enters the Two Witnesses, they stand upon their feet, and their prophetic witness begins again.

With their testimony restored, God's people are given understanding to recognize the spiritual abomination of desolation and proclaim God's judgment against the unfaithful church. Their message also calls God's people to separate themselves from spiritual corruption.

This connects Daniel 12:1 with Revelation 10:11, Revelation 11:11, Matthew 24:15–16, and Revelation 18:4.

The central message is this: Christ stands up, His people's testimony is restored, the spiritual abomination is exposed, judgment is proclaimed, and God's people are warned to come out of Babylon the Great.

The restoration of the Two Witnesses is therefore understood not merely as a return to their former testimony, but as the beginning of a renewed prophetic witness in which God's truth is revealed, spiritual corruption is exposed, and God's people are called to heed His warning before judgment comes.

And what about 70 AD and the first century? Not a chance! That was not when Michael stood up. This prophecy points to events in the future—or, more accurately, it may already be unfolding right now, based on what I am witnessing within God’s congregations around the world. As wickedness continues to increase, we must pay close attention to what is happening spiritually among God’s people! As I said before many times, it is spiritual discerned!

Selah!

Luke 21:20-21
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is at hand. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

Matthew 24:15-16
Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

Maybe the abomination were the Roman soldiers. And desolation refers to the destruction of Jerusalem (holy place). The abomination (Romans) that desolated (destroyed) the holy place (Jerusalem). What do you think?

 

[Grailhunter]

How do you know it is literally worldwide

Is Yeshua going to settle things locally?
7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Now this is the kicker for those that think it already happened....
34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Now those at the time of Christ took this to mean that they were living in the last days. Since it did not happen, people interpret this scripture differently.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Do you ever use AIs to help you write posts? I'm not saying AIs doing your thinking for you, but doing your writing for you. The reason I'm curious, sometimes you come across as anti-ai which would be rather bizarre if you are using AIs to write your posts for you.

Let me ask EVERYONE HERE this: Is your concern about whether what I post is a truthful testimony of what I believe Scripture teaches, or does it depend on whether I allowed AI helped me put it into words? Which is more important to you?

The thoughts, beliefs, and biblical interpretations I share using with Scripture are MY OWN. The question is, are you listening to the Word of God that I have testified, and receive it? Or are you going to waste your time complaining about AI in order to blindly defend your doctrine instead of compare my posts with Scripture like a Berean?

That is the question!

Selah!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Luke 21:20-21
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is at hand. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

Matthew 24:15-16
Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

Maybe the abomination were the Roman soldiers. And desolation refers to the destruction of Jerusalem (holy place). The abomination (Romans) that desolated (destroyed) the holy place (Jerusalem). What do you think?

Didn't you read the words, “(whoso readeth, let him understand:)"? What do those words mean to you? Does it mean we should simply accept what people commonly assume Jesus was talking about—the earthly city of Jerusalem, its temple, and the Roman armies? Is that how we are supposed to understand this prophecy without seeking the spiritual discernment that comes from the Spirit of God? Of course not! That is the problem with the Preterism and premillennialism as well!

Jesus was calling for understanding and discernment to recognize what God was actually revealing through Daniel's prophecy.

The destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70 was not the destruction of God's holy temple in the spiritual sense. Christ tore the temple veil at the Cross, signifying a decisive change in the covenant order. The kingdom was taken from unbelieving Israel and given to a people bringing forth its fruits (Matthew 21:43). The Spirit of God poured upon His Witnesses at Pentecost. On this side of the Cross, the Church is called the temple of God (1 Corinthians 3:16–17; Ephesians 2:19–22). Does this make it sound like the temple in 70AD was still holy?! Perish the thoughts! The question, then, is whether you have correctly identified the “holy place” in Jesus' prophecy.

You are assuming it refers to the physical temple in Jerusalem, but have you considered the spiritual significance of the temple under the New Covenant? The truth is you are looking at the wrong Jerusalem, wrong temple, wrong army, wrong abomination of desolation and missing the deeper spiritual meaning of Christ's warning that only concerns the New Testament congregation which is NOW the Holy Temple of God since the Cross. Selah!

 

[Davidpt]

Let me ask EVERYONE HERE this: Is your concern about whether what I post is a truthful testimony of what I believe Scripture teaches, or does it depend on whether I allowed AI helped me put it into words? Which is more important to you?

The thoughts, beliefs, and biblical interpretations I share using with Scripture are MY OWN. The question is, are you listening to the Word of God that I have testified, and receive it? Or are you going to waste your time complaining about AI in order to blindly defend your doctrine instead of compare my posts with Scripture like a Berean?

That is the question!

Selah!

If you are using AIs to help you write posts I have zero issue with it. I see zero wrong with that. I do the same myself at times. I'm just curious because when I use AIs to help me write better posts than I myself can write, I sometimes get accused of getting my theology from AIs. Except that is a lie. I don't get my theology from AIs.

Then in a earlier post in one of these threads where I brought AI into it you LOL about it, as if you might be anti-ai or something. Which then seems bizarre to be anti-ai and then letting AIs to help write posts for you.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I actually agree with a fair amount of how you’re connecting things together. I differ from you in that I see old covenant Israel as the one that goes apostate rather than the new covenant church. That’s why I personally would place Michael standing at the cross, not at some future time.

Not surprising. You’re still assuming you know what Christ was talking about without first discerning the spiritual meaning of His words.

Christ specifically said, “Whoso readeth, let him understand” (Matthew 24:15). Notice that He didn’t say, “Whoso readeth, let him simply assume he already knows what I am talking about - you know the one with physical stones of the temple.”

Before declaring that Michael stood up at the Cross, shouldn’t you first establish which temple Christ was referring to and what the abomination of desolation actually represents? If you begin with the wrong understanding of the temple, you will inevitably arrive at the wrong conclusion about the prophecy.

You cannot properly understand the timing of Michael standing up until you first understand what Christ was revealing as my post shows. Read, discern, and then conclude. Selah.

 

[SeekTruth]

Is Yeshua going to settle things locally?
7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Now this is the kicker for those that think it already happened....
34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Now those at the time of Christ took this to mean that they were living in the last days. Since it did not happen, people interpret this scripture differently.

If you are referring to verse 30: All tribes of the earth (which can be translated as land) refers to all the tribes of the land of Israel. The proof is in Zechariah 12:10-14.

 

[JimKnox]

You are serious?

Afganistan? You serious?

 

[TribulationSigns]

If you are using AIs to help you write posts I have zero issue with it. I see zero wrong with that. I do the same myself at times. I'm just curious because when I use AIs to help me write better posts than I myself can write, I sometimes get accused of getting my theology from AIs. Except that is a lie. I don't get my theology from AIs.

Then in a earlier post in one of these threads where I brought AI into it you LOL about it, as if you might be anti-ai or something. Which then seems bizarre to be anti-ai and then letting AIs to help write posts for you.

I’m not anti-AI. When I LOL’d at your (or anyone's) earlier post, it wasn’t because I knew you were using AI. I had no idea you used it to help write your posts. Selah!

My concern has never been about whether someone uses AI to improve their writing. Use whatever tools YOU want. What matters to me is whether your theological claims are supported by Scripture. Period. If they aren’t, I’ll LOL at the argument regardless of whether you wrote it yourself or AI helped you write it.

I judge the message by Scripture, not by the tool used to write it. I have noticed that some people us AI to "help" express their thoughts more clearly, but it does NOT make an unscriptural interpretation scriptural. At the end of the day, God’s Word is the standard—not AI, not human opinions, and not eloquent writing.

Get it? Now, the real question is this: Have you received and considered the Word of God I’ve been sharing in my recent posts, or are you going to keep wasting your time arguing about using AI? Because honestly, the AI issue means absolutely nothing to me. What matters is whether the message is supported by Scripture. So, let’s focus on God’s Word rather than the tool used to express it, shall we, humm?!