Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[MostlyConfused]

It was a bad example, be glad I did not say it was a good example.

I don’t know what you’re trying to say with the above. The two who gave a good report did not die in the wilderness. They entered into the promised land. There were two. A total of 12 spies sent in, not 10.

 

[Lizbeth]

And here you try it AGAIN. It is always the same tactic even though it didn’t work on me weeks ago and won’t work now. When I tell the truth you try to convince me I am upset as though it’s a magic spell that you can’t figure out why the words don’t work on me. I was not upset. I was just speaking truthfully. Your need to repeat the same pattern and cycle over and over again is exhausting. Being exhausted by someone’s cycles doesn’t mean you are upset. It means you just aren’t going to feed them. Also, I wasn’t confused by what you said. Not upset and not confused by you. The tactics just do not work on me.

I apologize if I misunderstood. You sounded to me as though you were in a state. Accusing me of strange things too, which I put down to you not understanding where I'm at, with regard to holiness in particular, so I attempted to clarify.

 

[Laurina]

It's not my bad news, but the riddle of MC.



Consider again -

Num 13:30 But Caleb quieted the people before Moses and said, “Let us go up at once and occupy it, for we are well able to overcome it.”
Num 13:31 Then the men who had gone up with him said, “We are not able to go up against the people, for they are stronger than we are.”
Num 13:32 So they brought to the people of Israel a bad report of the land that they had spied out, saying, “The land, through which we have gone to spy it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people that we saw in it are of great height.
Num 13:33 And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.”

They gave a bad report, the result -

Num 14:1 Then all the congregation raised a loud cry, and the people wept that night.
Num 14:2 And all the people of Israel grumbled against Moses and Aaron. The whole congregation said to them, “Would that we had died in the land of Egypt! Or would that we had died in this wilderness!
Num 14:3 Why is the LORD bringing us into this land, to fall by the sword? Our wives and our little ones will become a prey. Would it not be better for us to go back to Egypt?”
Num 14:4 And they said to one another, “Let us choose a leader and go back to Egypt.”

Ending in the death of the 10 spies.

I'm sorry, ProDeo I'm not understanding your point. I think you misunderstand MC.

What I do understand is that Episkopos is the only man living here on earth at this time (2026) in Canada that I know that has seen Zion, has walked in the light of it and has a testimony of it. He has a similar testimony of the writings of saints of old that have passed on. Perhaps you aren't meant to believe/understand this at this time or ever...that's not up to me or in my power (these things are too high for me)...that's God's department. For me, men like him in our day and age are so very rare, it's hard to believe...but then we must humbly pray, "Lord I believe, help Thou my unbelief," because with God all things are possible.

 

[Laurina]

Ending in the death of the 10 spies.

Are you aware that there were 12 spies??

"10 were bad, 2 were good"...a song we sang 55+ years ago in children's church.
Their mission was to spy out the promised land for 40 days and come back to give a report...10 gave bad reports (unbelievers of God’s promises) and 2 gave good reports (believers of God's promises)....you read the account...

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I believe the sin nature (old man) has been crucified....but that it is still possible to walk in it, in different degrees or at different times, in spite of that reality. What is taking place on "earth" doesn't always reflect what has taken place in heaven, the spiritual/heavenly reality.....that is why we are to walk by faith not by sight. And why Jesus' prayer to the Father involves asking that God's will be done on earth AS it is in heaven. We are to bring what has been accomplished for us in heaven, down to our earth....apprehend it. All things HAVE been put under the feet of Jesus, but we do not yet SEE all things put under Him....we are still in process of putting enemies under our/His feet. After I received Jesus I almost immediately discerned/felt an inner battle set up in me. Not about anything specific to my knowledge, but just a kind of overall state. Spirit began warring against the flesh and flesh against the Spirit. Thank you Jesus for your Spirit.

You are quoting Galatians 5:17, but the publishers of the Bible made an error. The Holy Spirit doesn't war against the flesh, because we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if the Spirit of God dwells within us. They capitalized the "s" when it should have read spirit/mind. Paul is quoting Romans 7:25 where the mind fights against the flesh, and the flesh fights against the mind's knowledge of the law. "So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It is the power of God unto salvation. The power to be sons of God. Having received the Spirit of adoption. We are His children and His Spirit testifies that to our spirit.

Yes, and John 8:34-36 shows us that as children of God we do not sin. Those who sin are slaves of sin and are not children of God.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

In the Spirit I saw light through my eyes...basically the helmet of salvation...an anointing in the eyes so that I saw light glowing from the outside of my eyes. It affected my perception of this world as I was seeing in 2 dimensions at once...which is what walking in the Spirit is. There was a light over the city that was glowing upward. And I could see darkness on people and things over their heads...that were waiting to be received. I couldn't tell is they were always good or bad things.

That was the first time.

After that I asked the Lord what I had been seeing in the light. Was it the city I was living in (Winnipeg at the time) or was it Zion. He answered me a few months later by appearing to me as I sat outside a Catholic building. He was on a balcony....very tall...very loving, but He said nothing just pointed down the street. The street was transformed into a row of block-like houses like we see in Greece or Tunisia...except both the road and the houses were shiny...like a reflective smooth surface. I looked back to see Jesus again and He was gone. The whole vision lasted for maybe 15 seconds or so. And it answered my question. Zion is superimposed on this realm. Like a realm in a realm. To walk in the Spirit means we are walking in BOTH with a perception of both. Normal vision AND spiritual vision. Unless we are born from above we cannot SEE or enter the kingdom realm.

Now I have had many dozens of such experiences and visions and such. But the second time I was translated into the Spirit (in ZIon) it began with the light coming from my eyes but more faintly than the first time. And as I stayed there over the next few weeks the light got dimmer...but I was still in the Spirit. No sin at all....just a glorious rest in the Lord. Even my dreams were either visions or just nothing. The community at the time was waiting until I got out of bed to ask me if the Lord had shown me anything. So there was a palpable presence of God during that revival. This second revival lasted for over 2 years..and I was in the Spirit at varying depths the whole time.

I have never both seen and heard at the same time. I have heard the Lord's voice many times directing me. But I only ever saw Him one on one with me once...the balcony vision. I have seen Him from a distance in other visions...but I was a mere spectator.

More recently a few years ago now, I was cycling with my wife and she went far ahead of me (which is unusual) when I was surrounded with heaven...but saw nothing. The same eternal peace and presence as when in Zion. This lasted for a full 10 minutes or so. I really felt that I was being inspected by a cloud of witnesses....and you are NOT going to believe this (and I shudder to think what the mockers will say) but I specifically felt the presence of Paul and David watching me. Don't ask me how I know.

I believe every word, e. My eyes and ears have also been opened by the Spirit of God, but I haven't seen Jesus, nor heaven nor angels. What I see is the anointing on a pastor, but only during his sermon. On two pastors and one woman it was glowing white. But in Pentecostal churches it is cobalt blue water. Only one time did I see black billowing clouds coming out of the pastor's head which was a backdrop to a tornado in the foreground. I did not know that pastor as I was just visiting that church, but I did tell him what I saw. But I have never told this to anyone who knows him. I don't know what sin is tearing him up, but I told him he needs to get before the Lord with it. Someday, I'll go visit it again and see if its gone.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That's hilarious because you are laying a false charge to an entire group of people.
You claim to be a 1st century lady and I partly believe that since you are a member of the cult of Dionysus who claimed to be the queen of heaven.
The Holy Scriptures have something to say about that.

I'm not in any cult. I follow Christ and the apostles, and stay away from post apostolic church fathers.

Curious about your scoffing emoji. Are you a cessationist?

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

As if being a Protestant was a golden ticket that gave them exclusive rights to condemn others.

But of course you have a golden ticket that gives you exclusive rights to condemn others, right?

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

I follow Christ and the apostles, and stay away from post apostolic church fathers.

You can't say you do this and be Catholic at the same time. The Catholic leadership claims they have the authority to change what Jesus and the Apostles taught. And they have.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Paul is quoting Romans 7:25 where the mind fights against the flesh, and the flesh fights against the mind's knowledge of the law.

Yes, he is talking about his failed fight with the desires of the flesh in Romans 7. You cannot fight fleshly desires with the mind. It is through the power of the Spirit that fleshly desire is slain. He goes on in Romans 8 to explain this.

Romans 8:13
13if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Born again people will always have the corrupt desires of the flesh to contend with. That's because the flesh is unredeemed. The redemption of the flesh does not happen until the resurrection.

Romans 8:22-23
22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

I'm sorry, ProDeo I'm not understanding your point. I think you misunderstand MC.

What I do understand is that Episkopos is the only man living here on earth at this time (2026) in Canada that I know that has seen Zion, has walked in the light of it and has a testimony of it. He has a similar testimony of the writings of saints of old that have passed on. Perhaps you aren't meant to believe/understand this at this time or ever...that's not up to me or in my power (these things are too high for me)...that's God's department. For me, men like him in our day and age are so very rare, it's hard to believe...but then we must humbly pray, "Lord I believe, help Thou my unbelief," because with God all things are possible.

There is no Jesus in Epi's 'gospel'. That's how I know what he says is not of God.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

It is a typical Protestant religious prejudice that make all Catholics as unsaved or unbelievers.

Why aren't you as sympathetic to the presumably lost Protestants as you are to all the lost religions of the world?

Your misguided sympathy with the world and your repulsion for the church is one way we know you are not sent from God.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

The bible NEVER makes beliefs a requirement for salvation in the world. The world will ONLY be judged by their works.

John 3:18
18whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

You have to believe in the name of Jesus to be saved from condemnation.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

God cannot impute a fictitious level of righteousness to a person.

Justification is a legal pronouncement. You knew that, right?

God judges if a person is acting in good faith or not ..based on the choices THEY make.

If a declaration of righteousness is based solely on your behavior you will never be declared righteous and you will never enter the kingdom of God. Just one sin ruins that way to be declared righteous. That's why right standing with God must be credited to a believer's account as a free gift of his grace until such a time when they will actually be sinless and righteous in behavior in the kingdom of God to come. That is the hope of righteousness for which believers patiently wait.

Galatians 5:5
5For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.

Romans 8:23-25
23we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

 

[MostlyConfused]

You sounded to me as though you were in a state. Accusing me of strange things too, which I put down to you not understanding where I'm at…”

The things you repeatedly do are not all that strange. They are also not as hidden as you think. The state I was in was a refusal to feed you in it.

 

[Lizbeth]

You are quoting Galatians 5:17, but the publishers of the Bible made an error. The Holy Spirit doesn't war against the flesh, because we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if the Spirit of God dwells within us. They capitalized the "s" when it should have read spirit/mind. Paul is quoting Romans 7:25 where the mind fights against the flesh, and the flesh fights against the mind's knowledge of the law. "So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."

All I can say is that something began to war in me and it had nothing to do with my mind/knowledge. What you are saying seems like a stretch to me. I'm no bible scholar although I do look up meanings and definitions etc at times. In Gal 5:17 it is the Gk word "peuma" being used, which means spirit and agrees with the context:

Gal 5:16-18

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

(We can choose which one to walk after, which one to sow to, either the flesh or the Spirit.)

If Paul meant the mind in v. 17 I'd think that he would have used the Gk word "nous".

In Rom 7:25 it is the Gk word "nous" being used, which means "mind" and agrees with where Paul says by the Law is the "knowledge" of sin.

In Ephesians Paul writes about being renewed in the spirit (pneuma) of your mind (nous). Why not just say be renewed in your mind? Because he is not talking about the carnal mind per se, but the spiritual mind of Christ.

We as believers are not IN the flesh, per se (as long as we aren't walking after it), but we do HAVE flesh....the body is dead because of sin. The Spirit warring against it is what gives us the ability/potential to have victory over it, is that not so? Because we don't or won't have victory over the flesh/old man by our own strength.

 

[Lizbeth]

The things you repeatedly do are not all that strange. They are also not as hidden as you think. The state I was in was a refusal to feed you in it.

No idea what you mean sister. But to me it appears that you are working through some things on your end, which I can sympathize with, knowing what a nasty world this is.

 

[Laurina]

There is no Jesus in Epi's 'gospel'. That's how I know what he says is not of God.

What you should say is, "I don't SEE any Jesus in Epi's 'gospel'. In which case I would say, "Are you saying this from yourself, or did you prayfully bring this matter before the Lord?"

Remember how Joshua didn't check with God about his "neighbours" and ended up making an oath with them not to destroy them? (It's in Joshua chapter 9.) That was because Joshua used his reasoning, but didn't check this matter with God.
Wisdom would seek God’s face about this, for you will have to answer to God. Better to check with God, then to be rejecting what God is bringing forth. Where are all or any of the Bereans?? (Acts 17:11-34)

Jer. 18:15
"Because my people hath forgotten me, they have burned incense to vanity, and they have caused them to stumble in their ways from the ancient paths, to walk in paths, in a way not cast up;"

 

[Laurina]

What you should say is, "I don't SEE any Jesus in Epi's 'gospel'. In which case I would say, "Are you saying this from yourself, or did you prayfully bring this matter before the Lord?"

Remember how Joshua didn't check with God about his "neighbours" and ended up making an oath with them not to destroy them? (It's in Joshua chapter 9.) That was because Joshua used his reasoning, but didn't check this matter with God.
Wisdom would seek God’s face about this, for you will have to answer to God. Better to check with God, then to be rejecting what God is bringing forth. Where are all or any of the Bereans?? (Acts 17:11-34)

Jer. 18:15
"Because my people hath forgotten me, they have burned incense to vanity, and they have caused them to stumble in their ways from the ancient paths, to walk in paths, in a way not cast up;"

It really is a shame that Jesus has become such an "idol", yet the people don't follow Him, believe His words, or obey Him.