Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[Judge Hardcastle]

Who said I was Catholic?

You gave a very strong indication of it in a post. Don't remember where.

Besides that, your theology concerning 'sin unto death' is very 'Catholic'

I put the two together and came to the conclusion, right or wrong, that you are Catholic.

But anyway, the sin unto death is willful and deliberate unbelief in the face of the undeniable testimony of the Holy Spirit.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You gave a very strong indication of it in a post. Don't remember where.

Besides that, your theology concerning 'sin unto death' is very 'Catholic'

I put the two together and came to the conclusion, right or wrong, that you are Catholic.

But anyway, the sin unto death is willful and deliberate unbelief in the face of the undeniable testimony of the Holy Spirit.

I was speaking of church history, starting with Catholics, and the last four church ages out of the seven letters. The first is Thyatira in Rev. 2, that Jesus said, "19 “I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first." As you see their doctrines at first were good. They knew that for the past 3,600 years God saw sin in two categories, mortal and venial. That was the Catholic and Orthodox churches. Sardis is the next, but they changed what Thyatira got right into "sin is sin." Jesus said of them, "you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." Reformed church denominations have never straightened out their doctrine. Still I would never choose Catholics or Reformed churches as my home church. It is Philadelphia that straightened out the false doctrines of those past heretical doctrines. That Catholics idolized Mary, and Reformed has the blood of Jesus continually cleansing mortal sins which is unscriptural.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Oh, 1CL, I’m sorry I posted a chit chat unrelated thing. Thought I was in someone else’s thread!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Oh, 1CL, I’m sorry I posted a chit chat unrelated thing. Thought I was in someone else’s thread!

I must have missed it. Don't know what you are talking about

 

[Laurina]

12, correct, so then what are we talking about?

Caleb and Joshua had faith, the other 10 feared and were punished with death for their unbelief, not allowed to enter the promised land while have being there and reported fear, unbelief.

The discussion started by MC saying -- the prophet you both support through tick and thin -- epi has been as one of the spies being in the promised and now is back and telling us what he saw.

And what does your prophet preach?

He preaches that there is a promised land to enter into NOW!! Most people are waiting until they die...it's too late then. The only dying that needs to take place is the dying to self.
Epi teaches that God is waiting for us to come back to Him a second time, after our first encounter with Him, like the one out of 10 lepers that was healed...Jesus asked the one who returned to Him where the other 9 went...He had healed 10! The other 9, who are they today, and what are they doing...they've been healed, but do they KNOW Jesus...could we be one of the 9??
Epi encourages us to make sure we are not of them that get spewed out of Jesus' mouth, that Jesus will not say to us, "Get away, I don't know you."
Epi is a voice calling to the people wandering in the wilderness to cross over, that Jesus is waiting for us to BELEIVE THE IMPOSSIBLE because with HIM (JESUS) ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.

The beauty he saw, encouraging people, edifying people ?

To those with faith Epi is very, very encouraging. But, if you have no faith, or IF you have been seduced but the enemy and have believed his lies and hang on to those lies like they are your life...I could see where you would have a problem with Epi, because Epi has seen (spiritually) and has spiritual gifts whereby he tears down the enemies strongholds and since you are (unknowingly to you) hanging on to these strongholds thinking they are your life, you would HATE him. I understand you, I had also stood where you are standing.

No, his message is fear, like the 10 spies.

His message is to FEAR GOD....it's the beginning of wisdom!!
Epi's not the one who speaks ill of what he witnessed and saw as a spy...he has a good, actually GREAT report. It's you who don't believe him, who speak ill of him, that have a bad report of what HE HAS SEEN ( @Lizbeth has mocked his testimony and when he has recounted some experiences he has had, Lizbeth has tried to sow doubt and bring discord, as do others, she's not alone in it). You can't push any bad report on him! He has met the Lord, and has nothing but good to say about that!!
You and your allies are like the 10 spies, and as you play that part, YOU SHOULD FEAR.

Wake up.

Oh, I have woken up and am awake, praise and thank God!!!

Remember what Epi recently said, how he in an unguarded moment sinned and trembled all over afraid the Lord would cast him in outer darkness.

Yeah, so....so did David, what of it?? David always cried out to God especially when he realized that he failed God, as did/does Epi. You've never failed?? You're not human?? Judge not lest you be judged.

@Laurina, dear sister, is that the Gospel message ?

Think...

He has not understood how much God loves him.

I think you're looking in a mirror and it's you that doesn't understand how much God loves. For Epi has seen God’s kingdom, and God IS LOVE.

In all these years.

We can't earn our salvation.

Be assured that no one is trying to earn their salvation. It's by grace through faith, and that is another thing that Epi teaches. Have you never seen him write that?? Have your eyes been blinded to what he writes??

Acts 28:27
"For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

I pray that your eyes open, your ears may hear, and you turn anew to God like the 1 out of 10 lepers who was healed.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Reformed has the blood of Jesus continually cleansing mortal sins which is unscriptural.

There is no sin that the blood of Jesus cannot forgive (except the sin of willful unbelief).

As I showed you in the Bible, all sin is potentially mortal. There is no such thing as a division between mortal and venial sins. Unforgiven fits of rage, or divisiveness, for example will condemn you just as much as adultery will. Galatians 5:19--21. Read that passage and see that what I'm saying is true.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

There is no sin that the blood of Jesus cannot forgive (except the sin of willful unbelief).

As I showed you in the Bible, all sin is potentially mortal. There is no such thing as a division between mortal and venial sins. Unforgiven fits of rage, or divisiveness, for example will condemn you just as much as adultery will. Galatians 5:19--21. Read that passage and see that what I'm saying is true.

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

This is why it was important that those in the Reformation bring forward the two types of sin the Catholics taught, instead of lumping the two together. Only unintentional sins can be continuously cleansed, not willful sins once cleansed as you think.

 

[JustMe]

Acts 28:27
"For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

I pray that your eyes open, your ears may hear, and you turn anew to God like the 1 out of 10 lepers who was healed.

Laurina, a question: Are you one of the ten lepers who returned to Jesus, demonstrating genuine faith and trust in him for the healing miracle he performed?

You know, ProDeo, I, or perhaps both of us, could also be among those who returned. The others apparently were not sincere; they believed in Christ intellectually, but not with both mind and heart. They showed no gratitude and never came back.

One way to know whether we truly have saving faith derived form God, and a deep personal belief in Christ is through righteous deeds that arise from this special grace of faith. This faith is guided by the Spirit of God through his Son’s spirit dwelling within us. Those who work for their own benefit and personal gain are pretenders, unconverted and unbelieving—the goats, the chaff, the severed branches, like the nine lepers.

I know that I am in the Spirit around the clock, even when I am not always aware of it or conscious of it, especially while I am asleep.

I often receive a genuine sense of assurance after I have given my time and attention to helping others, not for personal gain or public recognition, but for God’s glory and benefit, knowing that it pleases him too. At times, he speaks to me and lets me know. It wasn’t this way when I was younger. It develops over time and with age, alongside the increased faith some people experience. My wife of many years feels this same assurance. I suppose that is no surprise: we both love God and his Son dearly and depend on them for everything in our lives.

You might not be so casual to blanket you audience assuming that you, and only some others you know are the only ones being saved, in Christ, who are being saved today for God's glory tomorrow.

Just saying.....

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Only unintentional sins can be continuously cleansed, not willful sins once cleansed as you think.

I don’t think that. I agree that only unintentional sin is forgiven for the born again believer. ANY sin committed in a willful defiant rejection of Christ results in death. What I resist is your classification of particular sins as being unto death and not others. A willful defiant lifestyle of rage or divisiveness will condemn as much as a willful defiant lifestyle of adultery will.

 

[Laurina]

You might not be so casual to blanket you audience assuming that you, and only some others you know are the only ones being saved, in Christ, who are being saved today for God's glory tomorrow.

Just saying.....

See, you have me wrong too. I'm not talking about salvation and assuming is the enemy's playground.
My focus is on the Kingdom of God. Where I end up in that is God’s business, not mine. Jesus says to seek first the kingdom of God. I'm one small blade of grass among generations of world-wide fields of grass...

The only thing I'm trying to bring attention to, is that some (most) here have NOT UNDERSTOOD Epi's message, or purpose here, and they persecute him to no end. They seem to be personally offended by the depth of understanding that God has given him. Why are they so offended?? Like God said to Cain in Genesis chapter 4, "Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?"
I personally am eternally grateful that God has used Epi to show me where the enemy held me captive. We are all "tools" in God’s tool box. I don't understand why one "tool" or "group of tools" mocks other tools. When I witness that behavior I mostly walk away...but I'm speaking up today. Ask questions respectfully, why all the accusations? (I know why....., it's because "self" has not been dealt with, and we don't SEE our "self", we only operate through it and see other "selves" not aware of our own. Like a young child, we only have one perspective, our own.)

Just saying......

 

[JustMe]

See, you have me wrong too. I'm not talking about salvation and assuming is the enemy's playground.
My focus is on the Kingdom of God. Where I end up in that is God’s business, not mine. Jesus says to seek first the kingdom of God. I'm one small blade of grass among generations of world-wide fields of grass...

The only thing I'm trying to bring attention to, is that some (most) here have NOT UNDERSTOOD Epi's message, or purpose here, and they persecute him to no end. They seem to be personally offended by the depth of understanding that God has given him. Why are they so offended?? Like God said to Cain in Genesis chapter 4, "Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?"
I personally am eternally grateful that God has used Epi to show me where the enemy held me captive. We are all "tools" in God’s tool box. I don't understand why one "tool" or "group of tools" mocks other tools. When I witness that behavior I mostly walk away...but I'm speaking up today. Ask questions respectfully, why all the accusations? (I know why....., it's because "self" has not been dealt with, and we don't SEE our "self", we only operate through it and see other "selves" not aware of our own. Like a young child, we only have one perspective, our own.)

Just saying......

Your post say other things I'm afraid....read then again, honestly.

In the main part of your response, I either don’t understand some of Epi’s teachings or strongly disagree with them.

I’m glad this man has brought you closer to God, beside Christ I reckon, though I feel you’re exaggerating his importance and moving, or should I say have already moved towards a cult-like mindset.

 

[Laurina]

Your post say other things I'm afraid....read then again, honestly.

In the main part of your response, I either don’t understand some of Epi’s teachings or strongly disagree with them.

I’m glad this man has brought you closer to God, beside Christ I reckon, though I feel you’re exaggerating his importance and moving, or should I say have already moved towards a cult-like mindset.

No, it's my "mother bear" coming out. That's my women side of me in a man's world.
May you and your wife continue in the love of God. Blessings to you.

 

[ProDeo]

He preaches that there is a promised land to enter into NOW!! Most people are waiting until they die...it's too late then. The only dying that needs to take place is the dying to self.
Epi teaches that God is waiting for us to come back to Him a second time, after our first encounter with Him, like the one out of 10 lepers that was healed...Jesus asked the one who returned to Him where the other 9 went...He had healed 10! The other 9, who are they today, and what are they doing...they've been healed, but do they KNOW Jesus...could we be one of the 9??
Epi encourages us to make sure we are not of them that get spewed out of Jesus' mouth, that Jesus will not say to us, "Get away, I don't know you."
Epi is a voice calling to the people wandering in the wilderness to cross over, that Jesus is waiting for us to BELEIVE THE IMPOSSIBLE because with HIM (JESUS) ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.

To those with faith Epi is very, very encouraging. But, if you have no faith, or IF you have been seduced but the enemy and have believed his lies and hang on to those lies like they are your life...I could see where you would have a problem with Epi, because Epi has seen (spiritually) and has spiritual gifts whereby he tears down the enemies strongholds and since you are (unknowingly to you) hanging on to these strongholds thinking they are your life, you would HATE him. I understand you, I had also stood where you are standing.



His message is to FEAR GOD....it's the beginning of wisdom!!
Epi's not the one who speaks ill of what he witnessed and saw as a spy...he has a good, actually GREAT report. It's you who don't believe him, who speak ill of him, that have a bad report of what HE HAS SEEN ( @Lizbeth has mocked his testimony and when he has recounted some experiences he has had, Lizbeth has tried to sow doubt and bring discord, as do others, she's not alone in it). You can't push any bad report on him! He has met the Lord, and has nothing but good to say about that!!
You and your allies are like the 10 spies, and as you play that part, YOU SHOULD FEAR.

Oh, I have woken up and am awake, praise and thank God!!!


Yeah, so....so did David, what of it?? David always cried out to God especially when he realized that he failed God, as did/does Epi. You've never failed?? You're not human?? Judge not lest you be judged.


I think you're looking in a mirror and it's you that doesn't understand how much God loves. For Epi has seen God’s kingdom, and God IS LOVE.


Be assured that no one is trying to earn their salvation. It's by grace through faith, and that is another thing that Epi teaches. Have you never seen him write that?? Have your eyes been blinded to what he writes??

Acts 28:27
"For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

I pray that your eyes open, your ears may hear, and you turn anew to God like the 1 out of 10 lepers who was healed.

Epi, Epi, Epi, Epi, Epi, that's all I read.

Paul had something to say about following men.

1Cor 1:11 For it has been reported to me by Ce's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers.
1Cor 1:12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.”
1Cor 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul [Epi] crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul [Epi]?

We have to follow Christ, the One was crucified for you, start thinking for yourself.

Epi preaches a gospel fear, not rightly divided, leaving out the love of God and many other things.

Here is the apostle John -

1Joh 4:15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
1Joh 4:16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1Joh 4:17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
1Joh 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.

1Joh 4:19 We love because he first loved us.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Where is the fear ?

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

What you should say is, "I don't SEE any Jesus in Epi's 'gospel'.

Who is Jesus in Epi's gospel?
What is Jesus in Epi's gospel?
Where is Jesus in Epi's gospel?

We will compare what you say to scripture.

Better to check with God, then to be rejecting what God is bringing forth. Where are all or any of the Bereans?? (Acts 17:11-34)

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

I’m glad this man has brought you closer to God

He has done that in a sense.

The knowledge of the requirements of God reveal our failure and our impending judgment. That's where the call of God starts. The natural response is to start trying to be righteous and receive the promises of God that way. But honest people realize in time that is a failed endeavor. They realize they can't get from here to there that way, so they cast themselves in helplessness on God's mercy. They find mercy and are forgiven and are born again by the Spirit of God. This is the next thing that has to happen to Epi's followers. But throughout history there have been many, many people who never do that. They persist in trying to attain righteousness by way of the effort of laws and regulations and never enter into the forgiveness of God and the declaration of righteousness that is by faith. Whole denominations have been created in the name of that 'gospel'. The way of faith in God's promise of a Son, through whom they are forgiven as a free gift of God's grace, not the merit of law keeping, makes no sense to them. It makes no sense because they remain in the natural, not the spiritual.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Epi, Epi, Epi, Epi, Epi, that's all I read.

Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!

I'm with you. All I see is Epi and his grand visions and experiences in his gospel, not Jesus.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I don’t think that. I agree that only unintentional sin is forgiven for the born again believer. ANY sin committed in a willful defiant rejection of Christ results in death. What I resist is your classification of particular sins as being unto death and not others. A willful defiant lifestyle of rage or divisiveness will condemn as much as a willful defiant lifestyle of adultery will.

"Willful defiant lifestyle of rage or divisiveness" will of course lead to death, because they are obviously not born again of the Spirit. That lifestyle can lead one to murder. A lawless sin unto death. It is hate, that Jesus already declared equal to murder, which is lawlessness, 1 John 3:4.

But ignorance of the two types of sin lead Martin Luther to preach "SIN BOLDLY." He said, even if you commit murder and adultery 1,000 times a day it would not separate you from God."

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

"Willful defiant lifestyle of rage or divisiveness" will of course lead to death, because they are obviously not born again of the Spirit. That lifestyle can lead one to murder. A lawless sin unto death. It is hate, that Jesus already declared equal to murder, which is lawlessness, 1 John 3:4.

ALL sin is unto death for the unbeliever. Because they are in unbelief of God's forgiveness. NO sin is unto death for the person who is believing and trusting in the sacrifice of Jesus for the forgiveness of sin.

Romans 8:33-34
33Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us.

Hebrews 7:24-25
24But because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore He is able to save completely (forever)d those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them.

 

[ProDeo]

"Willful defiant lifestyle of rage or divisiveness" will of course lead to death, because they are obviously not born again of the Spirit. That lifestyle can lead one to murder. A lawless sin unto death. It is hate, that Jesus already declared equal to murder, which is lawlessness, 1 John 3:4.

We can not know what John meant with "sin unto death", he does not explain it.

One we know, calling God the devil, the total opposite of Him like the Pharisees did.

 

[Episkopos]

ALL sin is unto death for the unbeliever. Because they are in unbelief of God's forgiveness. NO sin is unto death for the person who is believing and trusting in the sacrifice of Jesus for the forgiveness of sin.

Romans 8:33-34
33Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us.

Hebrews 7:24-25
24But because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore He is able to save completely (forever)d those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them.

This is a scam gospel. Believing in God's forgiveness is the same as being forgiven? Believe you are forgiven and it is so? It is a good thing that God is not involved in your scheme. The main thing in such a scam is to make sure God is asleep when you try sneaking into the kingdom on judgment day. Barring that....you better hope He has the same religious theories that you do.

In your scam gospel our failure is good because God gets ALL the glory. If we do well then that's bad because then God has to share.


In your scheme...it's all about standing in the CLAIMING of Christ...not standing in Christ.

It's about believing in your own salvation...religious certainty IS faith for you lot.

Total wipe out.