Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[Judge Hardcastle]

It is a good thing that God is not involved in your scheme. The main thing in such a scam is to make sure God is asleep when you try sneaking into the kingdom on judgment day. Barring that....you better hope He has the same religious theories that you do.

No worries.
Born again believers who believe in and have received God's forgiveness receive the Holy Spirit by which they are transformed. And as a result of being transformed they have works of righteousness to validate that transformation. And it is on the evidence of that transformation - their works - that they are identified as sheep and given safe passage through the judgment and enter into the kingdom of God. Their works don't make them right with God at the judgment, they show that they are right with God.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

In your scam gospel our failure is good because God gets ALL the glory.

No, I already showed you Paul himself plainly explains that is not what his gospel means.

Romans 3:7-8
7Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” 8Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!

I explained to you that the increase of sin that glorifies God's grace in the forgiveness of sins is the increased knowledge of sin in the giving of the law, not your purposeful pursuit of increased sinning.

If we do well then that's bad because then God has to share.

No, that's silliness. No one is making that argument.

The danger in doing good is doing it for the reason of self promotion, as is done in your gospel. Boasting is excluded in our gospel because in our gospel justification is not by the greatness and sacrifice of our works, but rather by the giving of the gift of righteousness through the forgiveness of sin according to God's grace, not the merit of our works.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31
30I...Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.” d

Romans 3:27
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded.

Righteousness by faith, not works, is a boast in what the Lord has done, not what we have done. If justification was by works, as it is in your gospel, we'd have occasion to boast. But as it is, we don't have that boast.

Romans 4:2
2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.


Doing good in our gospel glorifies God because it is by reason of the desire to love others, that he has put within us by the Holy Spirit, that we do good, not to promote self.

1 Corinthians 10:31-33
31So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— 33even as I try to please everyone in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

Only if one does good for reason of self promotion, as your gospel does, is doing good bad and steals God's glory.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

It's about believing in your own salvation...religious certainty IS faith for you lot.

Total wipe out.

You are certainly the one who is believing in his own salvation, not us. You are the one who believes it is by the righteousness of your works that you become a saved person. Not us. We have the certainty of what we cannot see to be saved.

Hebrews 11:1
1Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Our faith in God's word that he has forgiven us through Jesus' sacrifice gives us the certainty of our salvation. The doing of righteous works is the certainty of your hope. That's why you will not have what you hope for. You simply aren't righteous enough to obtain the promises of God by your righteousness. Someone or something has to fill in the gap between your lack of righteousness and the righteousness required to enter the kingdom of God. You have nothing because you reject that which fills in the gap - God's forgiveness through the sacrifice of Christ.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

They aren't sins unto death because ALL sin is forgiven by the sacrifice of Jesus for the born again believer who believes and trusts in that sacrifice. You're trying to make a case that there are sins that born again believers simply cannot commit under any circumstances. I guess you're basing that off the fact that you never felt tempted to commit adultery after you were born again. That's great for you. That doesn't mean it's that way for all born again believers. It's dangerous to project your own experiences onto others. It's also dangerous to think that just because one has had a supernatural experience that their word is gospel. I have seen the Holy Spirit. It matched the description given in the Bible on the Day of Pentecost. That hardly means that I'm special and that everything I say and believe is gospel truth that applies to all. It means I had a supernatural experience, that's all.

I didn't say they were sins unto death. Read it again. I said they were sins NOT unto death.

I went to church for 30 years before I was born again of the Spirit. That is why I got enslaved in adultery. There are many as you say that sin, but are you sure they were born again? I think not.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You are certainly the one who is believing in his own salvation, not us. You are the one who believes it is by the righteousness of your works that you become a saved person. Not us. We have the certainty of what we cannot see to be saved.

Hebrews 11:1
1Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Our faith in God's word that he has forgiven us through Jesus' sacrifice gives us the certainty of our salvation. The doing of righteous works is the certainty of your hope. That's why you will not have what you hope for. You simply aren't righteous enough to obtain the promises of God by your righteousness. Someone or something has to fill in the gap between your lack of righteousness and the righteousness required to enter the kingdom of God. You have nothing because you reject that which fills in the gap - God's forgiveness through the sacrifice of Christ.

Jesus takes away PAST sins unto death from our sin nature, making a clean nature that may partake of the divine nature of God. We are not able to commit sins unto death again if we continue to abide in Him and follow our conscience where the Holy Spirit has written the laws of God.

21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No worries.
Born again believers who believe in and have received God's forgiveness receive the Holy Spirit by which they are transformed. And as a result of being transformed they have works of righteousness to validate that transformation. And it is on the evidence of that transformation - their works - that they are identified as sheep and given safe passage through the judgment and enter into the kingdom of God. Their works don't make them right with God at the judgment, they show that they are right with God.

I agree.

Do you know the difference between being righteous and being holy and what Jesus does to get us to these two different states? As much as you hate this, it has to do with the two types of sins. Study to show yourself approved, Judge

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Do you know the difference between being righteous and being holy and what Jesus does to get us to these two different states?

Being righteous means being declared to be in right standing with God.

You are made to be righteous (declared to be righteous - justified) the moment you believe in your heart the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Romans 10:10
10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified (declared to be righteous)

This righteousness is given to a person as a free gift of God's grace, apart from any consideration of your works of righteousness. It is because you do not have the righteousness of your works that you fall on God's mercy in faith and are justified. Like the tax collector in Luke 18:8-9. He was justified by his faith in God's mercy, not by the righteousness of his works. He confessed he was a sinner. He had no righteousness to bring to God to be declared righteous by.

Being righteous also means actually being righteous in how you act. Holy living, what we call holiness, is the actual righteousness of your behavior. Believers are also declared righteous by their righteous actions.

James 2:24
24a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

This does not mean a man is declared righteous as in made legally righteous by his righteous works. It means he is seen as righteous by the evidence of what he does. It has no value toward making you righteous. Only the forgiveness of God received by faith can do that. No one is righteous enough in thought and deed to be made righteous that way. Even if they could be perfectly sinless the guilt of their past sin would prevent them from being made righteous by their deeds.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Being righteous means being declared to be in right standing with God.

You are made to be righteous (declared to be righteous - justified) the moment you believe in your heart the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Romans 10:10
10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified (declared to be righteous)

This righteousness is given to a person as a free gift of God's grace, apart from any consideration of your works of righteousness. It is because you do not have the righteousness of your works that you fall on God's mercy in faith and are justified. Like the tax collector in Luke 18:8-9. He was justified by his faith in God's mercy, not by the righteousness of his works. He confessed he was a sinner. He had no righteousness to bring to God to be declared righteous by.

Being righteous also means actually being righteous in how you act. Holy living, what we call holiness, is the actual righteousness of your behavior. Believers are also declared righteous by their righteous actions.

James 2:24
24a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

This does not mean a man is declared righteous as in made legally righteous by his righteous works. It means he is seen as righteous by the evidence of what he does. It has no value toward making you righteous. Only the forgiveness of God received by faith can do that. No one is righteous enough in thought and deed to be made righteous that way. Even if they could be perfectly sinless the guilt of their past sin would prevent them from being made righteous by their deeds.

You've got righteousness right. I would add that we are righteous when Jesus takes away willful lawless sin from our nature. This is called Christ's circumcision without hands. 1 John 3 is the chapter on righteousness.

2 Peter 1:2-11 is the passage on holiness, and the second type of sin, immature fruit of the Spirit, and Philippians 1:6. Holiness is when Jesus has perfected us to where we never stumble.

 

[Laurina]

You are believing a lie.

Show me the scripture where Jesus says He came so He could forgive.

Jesus did come to bring forgiveness.

I admit that He does forgive, but I don't believe He needed to die in order to forgive since He forgave sins before He died. He said to a man that He healed of palsy, "your sins are forgiven you", (Luke 5) notice that Jesus had not died yet....like I said, He didn't die to forgive us our sins, He did that even before He died. He died to give us life more abundantly. John 10:10.

Also, I suggest you do a study on the Greek word "aphesis" (G859) found in Luke 4:18 translated as "deliverance" and taken from Isaiah 61:1 where from the Hebrew it's translated as "liberty". That works, deliverance/liberty....but then check out ALL the places in the N.T. where the word "aphesis" is used and see how it's translated....or I should say mistranslated to give a different meaning to the original Greek text.

Luke 24:46-47
46The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations

The Greek word is "aphesis" which means "deliverance" not forgiveness.

 

[Laurina]

Please don't try to change the meaning of the divine explosion of love John wrote.

I'm not trying to change any meanings, I want to understand scripture in spirit and truth.

1Joh 4:13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
1Joh 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1Joh 4:15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
1Joh 4:16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1Joh 4:17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
1Joh 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
1Joh 4:19 We love because he first loved us.

I addressed this already, the first time you posted it....but you avoided my question.

Now please answer my question. (I bet you thought you could avoid it.) ;)

Since (2 Tim 3:16) "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

How does this verse in Hebrews fit with 1 John 4???

Hebrews 10:31 "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

I know it does not fit in your gospel of fear,

I don't have a gospel, it's not my gospel.

it does not make the above untrue.

I agree, it does not make 1 John 4 and Hebrews 10:31 untrue. But how do you fit them together??

Blessings sister.

Right back at you.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

it that He does forgive, but I don't believe He needed to die in order to forgive since He forgave sins before He died. He said to a man that He healed of palsy, "your sins are forgiven you", (Luke 5) notice that Jesus had not died yet....like I said, He didn't die to forgive us our sins, He did that even before He died. He died to give us life more abundantly. John 10:10.

1 John 3:5 and 8 for me are the best scriptures that tell why He came. There is a difference in forgiving sins, and taking away the desire to sin until we get to the point that we are perfect and never stumble. 2 Peter 1:5-11

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

You've got righteousness right. I would add that we are righteous when Jesus takes away willful lawless sin from our nature. This is called Christ's circumcision without hands. 1 John 3 is the chapter on righteousness.

2 Peter 1:2-11 is the passage on holiness, and the second type of sin, immature fruit of the Spirit, and Philippians 1:6. Holiness is when Jesus has perfected us to where we never stumble.

Is not being able to commit the sins that are unto death the reason OSAS is true?

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

1 John 3:5 and 8 for me are the best scriptures that tell why He came. There is a difference in forgiving sins, and taking away the desire to sin

It's okay to believe that he came to do both, right?

Redemptions is not only the forgiveness of sin but deliverance from sin too, like how a slave is redeemed from his taskmaster.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

So I'm of the devil and not born again yet?

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

The Greek word is "aphesis" which means "deliverance" not forgiveness.

Deliverance from the penalty of sin. A.k.a. forgiveness.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Show me the scripture where Jesus says He came so He could forgive.

Jesus said that here:

Matthew 26:28
28This is My blood of the covenant,e which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.


Jesus came to be the sacrificial propitiation for our sins required by the law.

1 John 2:1-2
1—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins

Romans 3:25
25God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, i through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith.


His sacrifice is accepted by God as the just shedding of blood that God's law requires for sin for the forgiveness of sin.

Hebrews 9:24
22the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

...I don't believe He needed to die in order to forgive since He forgave sins before He died. He said to a man that He healed of palsy, "your sins are forgiven you", (Luke 5) notice that Jesus had not died yet....like I said, He didn't die to forgive us our sins, He did that even before He died. He died to give us life more abundantly. John 10:10.

Forgiveness by and through High Priest and Sacrifice, Jesus Christ, has always been the source of forgiveness from the very beginning of mankind.

2 Timothy 1:9-10
9 This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, 10but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Holiness is when Jesus has perfected us to where we never stumble.

So I'm not being holy when I obey God's commands in and one situation or circumstance, only when I always obey his commands and never sin?

 

[ProDeo]

Show me the scripture where Jesus says He came so He could forgive.

Matt 26:27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you,
Matt 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Baby milk.

 

[Laurina]

1 John 3:5 and 8 for me are the best scriptures that tell why He came. There is a difference in forgiving sins, and taking away the desire to sin until we get to the point that we are perfect and never stumble. 2 Peter 1:5-11

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Amen!!!
And to add, I woke up with this verse:
1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
There is so much more than forgiveness, He cleanses us from all unrighteousness. That's why He came, so we could have a relationship with Him and His HOLY FATHER. AND, AMEN, IN HIM IS NO SIN!!
Remember Uzza?? He died because he touched something (the ark) holy. He had good intentions, he wanted to steady the ark because the oxen stumbled, but he died (1 Chron. 13:9-13). David was displeased and afraid of God that day (the importance of having the fear of the Lord??). @ProDeo @Judge Hardcastle
.....just saying....