Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[1stCenturyLady]

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Randy, which do you believe regarding this text.

1. That a Christian walking in the light could commit murder?
2. That a Christian walking in the light could accidentally hit his thumb with a hammer and shout out a swear word.
3. Both

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Sin does NOT live in a born again Christian, that is why a born again Christian cannot commit lawless sin. The sin nature has been crucified and we are free from sin.

Then where does the sin you say you DO commit reside?

The cleansed nature. 1 John 1:7 shows a Christian walking in the light. Sins of eternal death have been cleansed from the sin nature you were born with. Unintentional sins not unto death is the only type of sin that the blood of Jesus continues to cleanse until, at last, we "never stumble."

How is what you've described 'sin not living in a born again Christian?'
What you're describing is hardly sinless perfection. Sin is sin. Either you're doing it, or you're not doing it, even if it isn't the sin for which there was no forgiveness under the old covenant. It's still sin.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Romans 7:14-25 is mans struggle to keep the Law while still having "the flesh."

Since we've established that 'the flesh' is your flesh body with it's various yearnings and appetites, aroused and corrupted by the evil one, the failure in Romans 7 is because of the absence of the mind being set on the things of the Spirit, rather than the things of the flesh. That could be because you don't have the Spirit, obviously. But it could also mean you do have the Spirit but your mind is not educated in the things of the Lord, or you are not familiar with the Lord's help in the battle with sin.

The flesh/carnal nature was in opposition to the Law. This is why Jesus takes away the carnal flesh and writes His laws on our heart.

But you still sin. So how is that Jesus taking away the flesh/carnal nature? This only makes sense if you understand what the Bible says, that it is because you are still in unredeemed flesh that you still sin. And that you have to put your mind on heavenly things, the things of the Spirit, and rely on God to resist and not be defeated by the things of the flesh.

If anyone still relates to these verses, they haven't been born again of the Spirit.

Either that, or they are born again but have yet to learn what constitutes righteous behavior, and learn how to avail themselves of the Lord's help in overcoming temptation. Still being able to sin does not mean you are not born again. Living in sin and being characterized by it means you are not born again. Slavery to sin is the sign of unbelief, not still being able to sin.

 

[Lizbeth]

Randy, which do you believe regarding this text.

1. That a Christian walking in the light could commit murder?
2. That a Christian walking in the light could accidentally hit his thumb with a hammer and shout out a swear word.
3. Both

I would just like to interject to point out that walking in the light includes being transparent and honest with the Lord. It is in and by the light of the Lord that we truly learn and realize in an experiential way that "in me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing". His light brings things to light that are hidden in darkness.....in order that they be brought to the cross to be confessed, forgiven, cleansed and healed. In the old testament we hear the Lord pleading, pleading brokenheartedly with His people, "only acknowledge your iniquity"(Jer 3).....in order that He not have to judge them. That was all He asked of them....just to acknowledge theirs sins, not hide them, or cover them up with fig leaves, not deny them, not make excuses for them, not justify them.....but realize, confront and confess them.........that is walking in the light. 1 Cor 11:31-32 "For if we would judge ourselves we should not be judged. But when we are judged we are chastened of the Lord that we should not be condemned with the world"

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

When believers condemn human righteousness in others they condemn themselves because that's all they have for the most part...

Unrighteousness in humanity is what we believers condemn. That's what you're not getting.

No one is perfect. The problem with your theology is you have no blood sacrifice to atone for your unrighteousness. And so the guilt of your unrighteousness remains, regardless of any righteous behavior you do have. Even if you really did become literally perfect in thought and deed there is still the matter of your past unrighteousness. God is a just God. There is a just penalty for sin and it has to be paid. There is no just penalty for sin in your theology. Everybody remains in the guilt of their unrighteousness in your theology. The guilt of unrighteousness is not removed through doing righteous works. Forgiveness through blood sacrifice and transformation by the Spirit is what makes a person right with God.

 

[amigo de christo]

Unrighteousness in humanity is what we believers condemn. That's what you're not getting.

No one is perfect. The problem with your theology is you have no blood sacrifice to atone for your unrighteousness. And so the guilt of your unrighteousness remains, regardless of any righteous behavior you do have. Even if you really did become literally perfect in thought and deed there is still the matter of your past unrighteousness. God is a just God. There is a just penalty for sin and it has to be paid. There is no just penalty for sin in your theology. Everybody remains in the guilt of their unrighteousness in your theology. The guilt of unrighteousness is not removed through doing righteous works. Forgiveness and transformation by the Spirit is what makes you right with God.

That man you wrote this too is in upmost dire and deadly danger .
That man does a very deadly and wicked thing .
Not only will he not preach the dire necessity to even have to repent and beleive on JESUS .
He went after me for telling an athiest of his dire need to repent and believe on JESUS .
HE called it religous extremism . And now a word .
HOW righteous IS IT to call GOD a liar , to even go after those who remind others as well as the church
of the dire need to beleive on JESUS . Even paul reminded the church .
But as i said not only did epi NOT tell that athiest of his dire need to repent and beleive on JESUS .,
When i did , HE called it religious extremism .
No man can save himself by his own means .
LORD who then can be saved , with man THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE but NOT WITH GOD .
And how did GOD choose to save the world ,
FOR it pleased the FATHER that by preaching to save those who BELEIVE .
EPI is doing all to silence that preaching and even calls it relgious extremism .

 

[MostlyConfused]

Sin does NOT live in a born again Christian, that is why a born again Christian cannot commit lawless sin. The sin nature has been crucified and we are free from sin.

So do you think that receiving the down payment of the Holy Spirit is not yet being born from above? Sorry if the question has already been asked and answered - it’s where my mind goes, and 74 pages is too much for me to go searching! And also, good morning.

 

[amigo de christo]

I would just like to interject to point out that walking in the light includes being transparent and honest with the Lord. It is in and by the light of the Lord that we truly learn and realize in an experiential way that "in me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing". His light brings things to light that are hidden in darkness.....in order that they be brought to the cross to be confessed, forgiven, cleansed and healed. In the old testament we hear the Lord pleading, pleading brokenheartedly with His people, "only acknowledge your iniquity"(Jer 3).....in order that He not have to judge them. That was all He asked of them....just to acknowledge theirs sins, not hide them, or cover them up with fig leaves, not deny them, not make excuses for them, not justify them.....but realize, confront and confess them.........that is walking in the light. 1 Cor 11:31-32 "For if we would judge ourselves we should not be judged. But when we are judged we are chastened of the Lord that we should not be condemned with the world"

and how honest is it if one is calling GOD a liar and implying that its okay to do so , just HIC and all is well .
If any goes about and tries to silence the preaching of the dire necessity for to have to BELIEVE JESUS is the Christ
IF any goes about calling that religous dogma
IF any goes about not only refusing to preach the true gospel to an athiest
but WHEN ONE shows up to do so and he calls that man a religious extremist .
THEN HOW ON EARTH IS THE LIGHT OF GOD and OF CHRIST in such a man . IT aint sister .
No man would ever imply its okay to call JESUS accursed .
Not if that man was born of GOD and of the SPIRIT . No mam
THOSE who are born of GOD , BY THE SPIRIT would have testified TRUTH , thus ON JESUS C HRIST .
The dire necessity to have to beleive on HIM and then teaching them to observe all things HE did teach and say .
The delusion of the inclusion is meant for one thing dear sister ,
and that is to merge this world as one mindset with one common goal , aka FOR WORLD PEACE ,
and to convince them all this is the road to their beloved peace n safety of the world .
AND yet it is but a lying spirit sent to gather them all unto the day THEY THINK will usher upon them peace n safety ,
BUT WILL RAIN DOWN SUDDEN destruction upon them all . by the VERY GOD they all beleived they were following .
Yet had no idea it was only HE who desires to be as GOD that they were heeding .

 

[amigo de christo]

I would just like to interject to point out that walking in the light includes being transparent and honest with the Lord. It is in and by the light of the Lord that we truly learn and realize in an experiential way that "in me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing". His light brings things to light that are hidden in darkness.....in order that they be brought to the cross to be confessed, forgiven, cleansed and healed. In the old testament we hear the Lord pleading, pleading brokenheartedly with His people, "only acknowledge your iniquity"(Jer 3).....in order that He not have to judge them. That was all He asked of them....just to acknowledge theirs sins, not hide them, or cover them up with fig leaves, not deny them, not make excuses for them, not justify them.....but realize, confront and confess them.........that is walking in the light. 1 Cor 11:31-32 "For if we would judge ourselves we should not be judged. But when we are judged we are chastened of the Lord that we should not be condemned with the world"

if you see the sword approaching and do not warn the wicked to repent
of his wicked way ..............................................
Well sister , BY grace I DO see the sword of the judgment of GOD all mighty approaches
and beleive me when i say , ITS NOT COMING FOR PEACE N SAFETY
its coming to rid the earth of all who loved a lie and had gathered as one beleiving that was the way to attain PEACE n safety .
OH YES . THE SWORD cometh and it will come in a day and at an hour This people knows not .
GOD is not , thus Christ is not the one behind this peace merger .
Someone else has been and his harlot has been real busy making the minds ready
to recieve and to beleive THE LIE .
Tick tock ..............................and i dont know how many more ticks or tocks this world has left
before The Coming of THE ONE TRUE CHRIST OF GOD does come upon them all .
And as i wrote before , IT WONT be a day of rejoicing unto all who made and loved a lie .

 

[Episkopos]

Unrighteousness in humanity is what we believers condemn. That's what you're not getting.

You are not thinking far enough. God condemns unrighteousness BOTH in the world and the church. The unrighteous of the world are cast into the lake of fire. The unrighteous in God's house are cast into outer darkness because they are saved by calling on the name of the Lord.

No one is perfect.

Our perfection is Christ. Putting on Christ is putting on His perfection.

The problem with your theology is you have no blood sacrifice to atone for your unrighteousness.

The unrighteous are not atoned for. The unrighteous don't inherit the kingdom.

And so the guilt of your unrighteousness remains, regardless of any righteous behavior you do have.

The righteous are not ALSO unrighteous. The unrighteous are not ALSO righteous. That is an invention of religious crazies.

Even if you really did become literally perfect in thought and deed there is still the matter of your past unrighteousness. God is a just God. There is a just penalty for sin and it has to be paid.

In holiness, yes. A life for a life. But for righteousness all one needs to do is repent to be forgiven. No blood necessary. If you forgive others then God will forgive you. If you don't forgive others then God will not forgive you. Do you see the pattern emerging?

There is no just penalty for sin in your theology.

Mercy triumphs over judgment for the righteous. The penalty for sin is death...separation from God. A Christian who continues to sin will be separated from God for eternity.