Forgive yet punish, what ?

[Sel@h]

I use extremes as a point in case.
Someone murders your family and only you know it.
You forgive them and only you can identify them.
If you truly forgive them would you then report them so that they are either executed or life in goal or would you let them be free from earthly consequences ?

I would report them so that no one else would be hurt.

 

[Sel@h]

What are we set free from and what is that truth that does that ?

When we follow our Savior’s words, we are set free from misery. We then have His blessings.

 

[Sel@h]

Me too and I would not be able to forgive them.
If the gripe/feud was just with your family then no-one else would be hurt so why report them if you have forgiven them ?

Murder is a very serious matter. This person, more than likely, will murder again. This has nothing to do with whether or not you forgive them. Can you be sure this person hasn’t hurt others before?

 

[Sel@h]

Many Christians are miserable, destitute, live in extreme fear so what is it that the words of Jesus frees them from ?

from hopelessness

 

[Sel@h]

This life is just temporary. Salvation is eternal—forever!

 

[Sel@h]

So like me you would neither forgive a person who murders your family and you would also ensure that retribution was pursued

Yes. —but forgiveness could follow at some point.

God knows.

 

[Sel@h]

Goodnight, brother. God bless you and make His face shine upon you.

 

[Sel@h]

GOD can forgive those we can't or won't.

Yes, if they repent.

 

[Sel@h]

Repent from ?
Their sin or disbelief in Christ ?
Good night Sis.
Only 130pm here in Aus :)

maybe both?

 

[Lambano]

Consequences can still follow, and they are not the same as punishment from the forgiver.

I was wondering if I should have distinguished between "punishment" and "negative consequences". The line can blur there.

 

[Sel@h]

Heaven exclusion is the punishment for sin
Heaven entry is for the forgiven.
In Heaven all sins are forgotten.

Do you believe there are negative consequences in Heaven for the sins you have been forgiven of ?

No.

 

[Lambano]

I was wondering if I should have distinguished between "punishment" and "negative consequences". The line can blur there.

I'm going to throw in another word:

Okay; that's two words, but I liked the graphic.

There is always accountability. There are just too many verses in the Bible that say we will be held accountable in the Age to Come for how we lived our lives in This Age. I just can't say in what form that accountability will take.

 

[quietthinker]

When we follow our Savior’s words, we are set free from misery. We then have His blessings.

Does the Saviour say report offenders or forgive them?

hmmmm, looks like one of the two debtors the creditor forgave did a bit of reporting....and blow me down, ended up with the short end of the stick

 

[RandyDawson]

I just happened to be reading John 8:31. But you know what? Truth in all things is something we should all strive for as Christians.

Isn't that works based salvation? to strive?

 

[Sel@h]

Isn't that works based salvation? to strive?

Truth is a work? You know better than that, friend.

 

[RandyDawson]

Truth is a work? You know better than that, friend.

There are those that claim anything we do for the Lord is trying to earn salvation.
Some claim God does everything and man does nothing and has no responsibility in their salvation whatsoever.

 

[ScottA]

Yet if we require someone to be punished who has sinned against us how can we claim that we have forgiven them ?

What you are asking is not unlike asking, "Are we God?"

The answer is, No, we are God's, and do not forgive in the way you have asked the question.

It is God who forgives sin, and yes we are called to forgive our brothers, but also called by God to seek and support justice by those appointed over us by God. Which in certain times even means yielding to the laws of evil overseers--even as Christ did by going to the cross. So then, if we would consider it best to be turned over to punishment ourselves (as did Christ), the only godly alternative to turning those who have done evil to us to the authorities, would be to allow their punishment to be placed upon us...as He did.

Is that what you are proposing?

 

[RandyDawson]

What you are asking is not unlike asking, "Are we God?"

No, his response isn't even close to asking if we are God.

Christians are supposed to have the Holy Spirit inside and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty (2 Corinthians 3:17).
Liberty from what? Whatever it is we need to be liberated from such as feeling the need to refuse to forgive.

We can do all things through Christ Jesus who strengthens us (Philippians 4:13) so why would you equate walking in the Spirit as thinking we are God?

It is God who forgives sin, and yes we are called to forgive our brothers, but also called by God to seek and support justice by those appointed over us by God. Which in certain times even means yielding to the laws of evil overseers--even as Christ did by going to the cross. So then, if we would consider it best to be turned over to punishment ourselves (as did Christ), the only godly alternative to turning those who have done evil to us to the authorities, would be to allow their punishment to be placed upon us...as He did.

If someone does crime against us then yes we should call the cops and let them do what they do. (Romans 13:1-4)

However this does not means we don't have to forgive as Jesus instructed

Matthew 6:15
If ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 6:12
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
(forgive us in the same way we forgive others)

Luke 6:37
Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Matthew 18:23-35
Jesus teaches we will not be forgiven if we don't forgive others and we will suffer the same fate as sinners if we refuse to forgive.

 

[ScottA]

No, his response isn't even close to asking if we are God.

Christians are supposed to have the Holy Spirit inside and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty (2 Corinthians 3:17).
Liberty from what? Whatever it is we need to be liberated from such as feeling the need to refuse to forgive.

We can do all things through Christ Jesus who strengthens us (Philippians 4:13) so why would you equate walking in the Spirit as thinking we are God?

I wasn't referring to "his" response, but yours.

The point is, we are not God that we should assume our forgiveness actually forgives the sin of someone who has sinned against us--because only God can do that. So forgiving those who sin against us is not about them being forgiven, but about us having the heart to do so. But it stops there, and does not actually give us the ability or authority to judge whether or not they are to be punished or not. When we forgive someone, we are not automatically deputized or appointed over the outcome or consequence of their actions according to the laws that govern the land which God has seen fit to appoint to others.

 

[ScottA]

If someone does crime against us then yes we should call the cops and let them do what they do. (Romans 13:1-4)

However this does not means we don't have to forgive as Jesus instructed

Matthew 6:15
If ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 6:12
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
(forgive us in the same way we forgive others)

Luke 6:37
Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Matthew 18:23-35
Jesus teaches we will not be forgiven if we don't forgive others and we will suffer the same fate as sinners if we refuse to forgive.

Good! That is the distinction and difference I was referring to.