Why Christians Call Mary the Mother of God.

[rwb]

I agree.
But I'll only say this:
You and I probably do not agree on something major.
We are both checking with scripture.
How come we don't agree on everything?

I don't expect a reply,,,we'll derail this thread too much.
It's just a thought.

The answer is really quite simple, PRIDE!

 

[markalan]

Let's stay with what the CC actually teaches and not rail against incorrect facts.

The problem with that limitation is that it does not consider the implications of "facts"

"Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality,
impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry." (Col 3:5)

It is highly unlikely that a person guilty of covetousness would consider it to be idolatry.

 

[GodsGrace]

The answer is really quite simple, PRIDE!

YOUR pride?
LOL
Later.

 

[GodsGrace]

The problem with that limitation is that it does not consider the implications of "facts"

What do you mean?
Is it OK to spread lies on these Forums about what the CC teaches?
I see members here posting what is NOT facts.

"Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality,
impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry." (Col 3:5)

It is highly unlikely that a person guilty of covetousness would consider it to be idolatry.

I'm afraid you're going to have to connect the dots for me.

Colossians 3:5 NLT
5So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.

How does the above contribute to this convesation?

 

[amigo de christo]

The answer is really quite simple, PRIDE!

actually this is quite true , but do allow some words for the full explanation .
you see when any one teaches what is contrary to GOD , thus to HIS doctrine , His words
THAT IS PRIDE . and its pride to sit under such pride filled men who do so as well .
REBELLION .
So my advice to all is very simple simple .
Seeing wolves in wool abound all over just about every church these days ,
OPEN BIBLE and read BIBLE and love such words of pure truth
and learn for thineself what many no longer teach but rather twist . TRUTH .

 

[Moonwood]

The problem with that limitation is that it does not consider the implications of "facts"

"Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality,
impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry." (Col 3:5)

It is highly unlikely that a person guilty of covetousness would consider it to be idolatry.

The problem is that you're applying a true principle to the wrong question.

Yes, a person guilty of covetousness may not realize it is idolatry. But that doesn't mean we can simply declare something to be idolatry without showing that it actually is.

The issue under discussion is whether Catholics worship Mary. The Catholic Church explicitly teaches that worship belongs to God alone and not to Mary. If you believe Catholic practice amounts to idolatry, then the case must be made from what Catholics actually believe and do, not merely from the observation that people can be guilty of sins they don't recognize.

In other words, Colossians 3:5 shows that self-awareness is not the standard. Agreed. But neither is accusation. The question is whether Marian devotion meets the biblical definition of worship, and saying "people can unknowingly commit idolatry" does not demonstrate that Catholics do.

 

[amigo de christo]

YOUR pride?
LOL
Later.

The key to knowing whether its our pride , their pride or pride itself .
We better open our bible and get real acquainted with such pure and lovely words for our own selves .
Cause i see a number so high it cannot be counted by mere man , WHO are in great pride
and have long twisted the scriptures in favor of the doctrines , precepts , and yes even love of the world .
Yet all under the cliam it be of GOD and thus sayeth the LORD .
PRIDE . it took lucifer DOWN . Pride it has caused the fall of many .
Pride it will be the ruin of all .
IT IS BIBLE TIME in the house .

 

[markalan]

What do you mean?
Is it OK to spread lies on these Forums about what the CC teaches?
I see members here posting what is NOT facts.


I'm afraid you're going to have to connect the dots for me.

Colossians 3:5 NLT
5So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.

How does the above contribute to this convesation?

You can find hundreds of health "experts" on Youtube teaching what they call a healthier lifestyle ... but is that what they are all actually teaching? Of course not.

The CC teaches veneration of Mary is acceptable ... but that is not what they are actually teaching ... they are teaching idolatry because Mary is placed between the petitioner and God.

 

[amigo de christo]

The problem with that limitation is that it does not consider the implications of "facts"

"Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality,
impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry." (Col 3:5)

It is highly unlikely that a person guilty of covetousness would consider it to be idolatry.

why look at that lovely reminder you just gave .
IT is highly unlikely that a person guilty of coveteousness would even consider coveteousness to be idolatry .
BINGO . at most they will compare their own covetouness against the covetoueness of others
and say HEY THEY are guilty ,NOT ME .
But seeing you brought up a good reminder , allow me to bring us a reminder .
ITS HIGHLY unlikely that a person who follows another jesus , another gospel , would see it as That which is of anti christ .
AND YET IT IS of anti christ .
The jesus i see many and m ore and more following ,
Well lets just say there was a huge reason i said the jesus i see , and not the JESUS i see many follwoing .
TODAY many follow the judge not god is love jesus who is very friendly with sin and even UNBELIEF in HIM,
As they follow an ecumeincal inclusive jesus who preaches an interfaith peace of anti christ .
MY MY , oh ME and OH MY , we got a delusion on christendom
and the same delusion now on the false religoins .
And that lie says THEY ALL serving the same God and this is the plan of GOD for world peace n safety
so lets all come and be as one for world peace n safety . And friend they made the road to GOD
VERY darn sin friendly , very darn broad as now muslims and all other relgoins seem to be on it too .

 

[Marvelloustime]

why look at that lovely reminder you just gave .
IT is highly unlikely that a person guilty of coveteousness would even consider coveteousness to be idolatry .
BINGO . at most they will compare their own covetouness against the covetoueness of others
and say HEY THEY are guilty ,NOT ME .
But seeing you brought up a good reminder , allow me to bring us a reminder .
ITS HIGHLY unlikely that a person who follows another jesus , another gospel , would see it as That which is of anti christ .
AND YET IT IS of anti christ .
The jesus i see many and m ore and more following ,
Well lets just say there was a huge reason i said the jesus i see , and not the JESUS i see many follwoing .
TODAY many follow the judge not god is love jesus who is very friendly with sin and even UNBELIEF in HIM,
As they follow an ecumeincal inclusive jesus who preaches an interfaith peace of anti christ .
MY MY , oh ME and OH MY , we got a delusion on christendom
and the same delusion now on the false religoins .
And that lie says THEY ALL serving the same God and this is the plan of GOD for world peace n safety
so lets all come and be as one for world peace n safety . And friend they made the road to GOD
VERY darn sin friendly , very darn broad as now muslims and all other relgoins seem to be on it too .

@amigo de christo

 

[Moonwood]

The CC teaches veneration of Mary is acceptable ... but that is not what they are actually teaching ... they are teaching idolatry because Mary is placed between the petitioner and God.

Placed between a petitioner and God is not placed above God. And the latter would be to worship Her as a god. But we don't.

God the Father and God the Holy Spirit chose Mary to bring God the Word incarnate into this world to the petitioner. We have God because of Her cooperation with Him. We have God because He first thought from eternity of Mary—the person to bring God Incarnate into the world so that He could die for and redeem mankind.

Satan hates Her for that. And he wants souls to stay away from Mary and not see Her as a powerful intercessory ally.

 

[David1701]

I read a little.
It kept repeating the magesterium of the CC.
THIS is what I'd like to see.

For Christians, the word of God (the Bible) tells us what to believe and do; but, for R.C.s, it's their "Magisterium" that tells them what they must believe and do. This is why that R.C. site kept mentioning the "Magisterium".

NOT an article written by some priest...
Priests have their own opinions.

The site refers to many pronouncements by the R.C. "Magisterium".

Could you make your case please?
You'd have to highlight WHERE the CCC states that Mary is a co-redeemer or co-redemptrix.

Here's a longish quote from the site to which I linked (it quotes official R.C. sources).

"Leo XIII offers a dynamic portrayal of Mary's coredemptive suffering: She painfully partakes in "His torments in the very depths of her soul," "weeping" at the cross of her dying Son and willingly offers him to divine justice. This coredemptive suffering with the Redeemer was fitting and appropriate so that Mary "might receive us as her children."


Thus beyond endorsing the Marian roles of Mediatrix, Reparatrix and Conciliatrix, Leo XIII brings to light the precious gift generously given to Mary by divine will: her cooperation in the acquisition of the graces of redemption. She has been granted "an almost boundless power" in dispensing the very graces won by her coredemptive participation with the Redeemer:

By the will of God this mother began to stand vigil over [advigilare] the Church and nurture us as His aide [administra] in effecting [patrandi] the sacrament of Redemption of mankind, dispensing [pariter administra] the graces that derive from our Redemption for all time with an almost boundless power granted her. Most appropriately, therefore, all peoples and cultures have lavished public praises upon her, which have escalated throughout the ages, among many of which we might mention: Our Lady (Domina), our mediatrix (mediatrix), the restorer (reparatrix) of the whole world, and the conciliatrix (conciliatrix) of the gifts of God.[14]

The Pope's depiction of Mary's vocation is so astonishing that we might not fully appreciate its importance. Mary's ancient title Domina is usually translated into English by the very weak "our lady." However, that word's counterpart is Dominus - LORD! In Sacred Scripture, "Lord" is unambiguous for God Himself, even more clearly than "Son of God." Yet Domina is one of Mary's titles that the Pope uses in the context of our Redemption by Christ. Also, the significance of Adiutricem populi is further heightened when Vatican II, calling Mary "Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix," refers us back to this encyclical.[15]


"We have shown that the Rosary,...coupled with [Mary's] office of mediatrix [mediationis officio], is a most excellent and fruitful prayer of petition."[16] Pope Leo XIII draws the Christian faithful to recall the truths of the Rosary, prayer and our Lady's mediating role which include her effective and unique participation in Redemption:

[Through the Rosary] we recall Mary's exceptional merits by which she became a participant [facta est particeps] with her Son Jesus in the Redemption of mankind....She was not only present [non adfuit tantum] in the mysteries of our Redemption, but she played a part in them [interfuit]. In this way the all-powerful Virgin Mother, who once cooperated lovingly in the birth of the faithful in the Church, is also the means [media] and the agent [sequestra] of our salvation to the extent of bringing us back to Jesus Christ, "who is able to save forever all who come to God through Him".[17]

This remarkable concatenation of Mary's prerogatives depicts her cooperation with her Son. It is cooperation that is 1) direct, immediate and dynamic; 2) bilateral, between Mary and Jesus precisely in His role as Redeemer; 3) not only an activity but a ministry - a role initiated by Him and assigned to her by Him to achieve our Redemption. In these succinct quotations of Pope Leo XIII we see the Magisterium's fullest description to date of the essence of Mary's role as Coredemptrix.

15. Documents of Vatican II, LG no. 62, pg. 91, n. 278.


16. Diuturni temporis spatium, September 5, 1898, ASS 31(1898-1899) 147.


17. Parta humano generi, September 8, 1901, ASS 34 (1901-1902): 194-195."

Mary, Coredemptrix: The Significance of Her Title in the Magisterium of The Church

It is not only in catechisms that we find the official teachings of the R.C. "Magisterium", so you cannot demand that quotes be limited to those.

I cannot remember seeing it anywhere and Popel Francis did not agree to any such title, and THIS Pope has specifically forbidden it.

He has said that the titles should not be used; but, the reason for that is not to give cause for misunderstandings, not because he doesn't believe the doctrines behind them!

It would be nice if we protestants stopped hating our Catholic brethren long enough to speak the truth about what that church teaches.

Speak for yourself. I certainly do not hate R.C.s; in fact, I want to see them delivered from the vile and wicked system of falsehoods in which they are bound.

Source: Gemini

The Pope and the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith have officially clarified that the title "Co-redemptrix" (or "co-redeemer") for the Virgin Mary must not be used. [1, 2]

Key points of the measure

• • The document: The doctrinal note entitled Mater Populi Fidelis was approved by Pope Leo XIV on 7 October 2025 and made public in November 2025. [1, 2, 3]
  • The decision: The Vatican discourages and rejects the use of the title "Co-redemptrix" and also places strong restrictions or criticisms on the expression "Mediatrix of all graces." [1, 2, 3]
  • The reason: The expression "co-" risks placing Mary on the same level as Jesus Christ, obscuring her unique and exclusive role as the sole Savior and Redeemer of humanity. [1, 2, 3]

As I said, the reason for the discouragement is to avoid misunderstandings, not because the leadership rejects the R.C. teachings behind the blasphemous titles.

 

[markalan]

Placed between a petitioner and God is not placed above God. And the latter would be to worship Her as a god. But we don't.

Placing anything or anyone between the petitioner and God is idolatry ... For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

 

[Moonwood]

Placing anything or anyone between the petitioner and God is idolatry ... For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

And He is...no one is saying otherwise...

 

[David1701]

The reason I'm asking is because this thread was created in direct response to a statement made by another member:

"Where in the Word of God is Mary ever referred to as the mother of God? In fact where do we ever read that God has a mother?"

My purpose was to address that specific claim and explain why many Christians have historically used the title Mother of God.

The argument is really about the identity of Christ. If Jesus is God incarnate, and Mary is His mother, then what follows from that?

That's the question I'm exploring.

I've presented my reasoning from Scripture, particularly Luke 1:43 and John 20:28. Anyone who believes the argument is mistaken is welcome to show where they think the reasoning breaks down.

So rather than discussing motives, I'd prefer to discuss the actual argument. And of course, anyone who shares the view expressed by rwb, or disagrees with my conclusion, is welcome to participate in the discussion.

Thank you for clarifying. I'm always interested in what lies behind a question, rather than merely the question itself.

I don't use the title "mother of God"; firstly, because God's word does not use that title, and, secondly, because Mary was only the mother of God-manifest-in-the-flesh, not God in general, who obviously has no mother.

 

[David1701]

And He is...no one is saying otherwise...

Roman Catholicism has a mediatorial priesthood...

 

[David1701]

1. Many Catholics, including myself, use the title Co-Redemptrix for Mary, but the term is often misunderstood. "Co-" comes from the Latin cum ("with"), not "equal to." The title is meant to express Mary's unique cooperation with Christ's saving mission, not equality with Jesus.

2. Supporters point to Mary's free "yes" at the Annunciation (Luke 1:38), Her lifelong cooperation with God's plan, and Her presence at the foot of the Cross as reasons She participated in a unique way in the work of redemption.

3. In this view, Jesus alone is the Redeemer. Mary's role is entirely dependent on Him and subordinate to Him. Advocates argue that "Co-Redemptrix" means She cooperated with the Redeemer, not that She redeemed humanity Herself.

4. The Catholic Church teaches that Mary cooperated in salvation history, but it has never defined "Co-Redemptrix" as a dogma. The Second Vatican Council preferred language about Mary's cooperation while carefully preserving Christ's unique role as Savior.

5. This is one reason the word does not appear in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The Catechism teaches Mary's cooperation and spiritual motherhood, but it does not use the title itself.

6. Another reason is that the title can be misunderstood. Many hear "Co-Redemptrix" and assume it means Mary is an equal partner with Christ in redemption, which is not what its defenders mean.

7. Debate over the title has existed for decades. Some theologians and bishops supported defining it as a Marian dogma, while others argued the term creates confusion and can obscure Christ's unique role.

8. In 2025, the Vatican's Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith stated that the title Co-Redemptrix is not an appropriate way to describe Mary's participation in salvation because it risks eclipsing the exclusive role of Jesus Christ as Redeemer.

9. The Vatican document reaffirmed that Mary has a unique cooperation in God's plan of salvation, but emphasized that Christ alone is the sole Mediator and Redeemer.

10. So the short answer: Catholics who use the title Co-Redemptrix mean that Mary uniquely cooperated with Christ's saving work. The title is not in the Catechism because the Church has never formally adopted it there, and concerns have long existed that the term can be misunderstood or appear to diminish Christ's unique role as Redeemer.

Personally, I find the title Co-Redemptrix or Co-Redeemer entirely fitting for Mary. The term does not mean that She is equal to Christ, but rather that She cooperated with Him in the work of redemption. Her cooperation began with Her fiat at the Annunciation and continued through Her giving birth to the Savior, raising Him, and remaining faithful at the foot of the Cross. As Simeon prophesied, "and a sword will pierce your own soul also," Mary willingly accepted this suffering in union with Her Son. Because of this unique cooperation in salvation history, I believe the title accurately reflects Her role.

Additionally, in a broader sense, all Christians are called to cooperate in Christ's redemptive work. Through prayer, sacrifice, suffering united to Christ, and acts of charity, we help bring souls closer to God. In that sense, Mary's cooperation is unique and unparalleled, but it is not entirely unlike the way believers are invited to participate in God's plan of salvation.

I'm well aware of what the prefix "co" means, thanks.

"Co-redemptrix" or "Co-redeemer" would mean one who helped in our redemption, so it's entirely unsurprising that these titles are viewed as blasphemous. After all, why would a mere sinful human (Mariam) be granted such a title at all? She would certainly reject it!

 

[markalan]

And He is...no one is saying otherwise...

then stop praying to Mary ... God hates it because it is idolatry

 

[GodsGrace]

For Christians, the word of God (the Bible) tells us what to believe and do; but, for R.C.s, it's their "Magisterium" that tells them what they must believe and do. This is why that R.C. site kept mentioning the "Magisterium".



The site refers to many pronouncements by the R.C. "Magisterium".


Here's a longish quote from the site to which I linked (it quotes official R.C. sources).

"Leo XIII offers a dynamic portrayal of Mary's coredemptive suffering: She painfully partakes in "His torments in the very depths of her soul," "weeping" at the cross of her dying Son and willingly offers him to divine justice. This coredemptive suffering with the Redeemer was fitting and appropriate so that Mary "might receive us as her children."


Thus beyond endorsing the Marian roles of Mediatrix, Reparatrix and Conciliatrix, Leo XIII brings to light the precious gift generously given to Mary by divine will: her cooperation in the acquisition of the graces of redemption. She has been granted "an almost boundless power" in dispensing the very graces won by her coredemptive participation with the Redeemer:




The Pope's depiction of Mary's vocation is so astonishing that we might not fully appreciate its importance. Mary's ancient title Domina is usually translated into English by the very weak "our lady." However, that word's counterpart is Dominus - LORD! In Sacred Scripture, "Lord" is unambiguous for God Himself, even more clearly than "Son of God." Yet Domina is one of Mary's titles that the Pope uses in the context of our Redemption by Christ. Also, the significance of Adiutricem populi is further heightened when Vatican II, calling Mary "Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix," refers us back to this encyclical.[15]


"We have shown that the Rosary,...coupled with [Mary's] office of mediatrix [mediationis officio], is a most excellent and fruitful prayer of petition."[16] Pope Leo XIII draws the Christian faithful to recall the truths of the Rosary, prayer and our Lady's mediating role which include her effective and unique participation in Redemption:




This remarkable concatenation of Mary's prerogatives depicts her cooperation with her Son. It is cooperation that is 1) direct, immediate and dynamic; 2) bilateral, between Mary and Jesus precisely in His role as Redeemer; 3) not only an activity but a ministry - a role initiated by Him and assigned to her by Him to achieve our Redemption. In these succinct quotations of Pope Leo XIII we see the Magisterium's fullest description to date of the essence of Mary's role as Coredemptrix.

15. Documents of Vatican II, LG no. 62, pg. 91, n. 278.


16. Diuturni temporis spatium, September 5, 1898, ASS 31(1898-1899) 147.


17. Parta humano generi, September 8, 1901, ASS 34 (1901-1902): 194-195."

Mary, Coredemptrix: The Significance of Her Title in the Magisterium of The Church

It is not only in catechisms that we find the official teachings of the R.C. "Magisterium", so you cannot demand that quotes be limited to those.

Actually, the teachings of the CC are in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

And I did not demand that quotes be from there.

You posted a long article that actually rejected what you stated.
I did post the rejection because, apprently, you really did not understand what it was saying.

He has said that the titles should not be used; but, the reason for that is not to give cause for misunderstandings, not because he doesn't believe the doctrines behind them!

It's interesting that you could look into people's minds.
Do you think RC Sproul believed everything he taught?
I would hope so...otherwise it means that no Christian teacher can be trusted.

Speak for yourself. I certainly do not hate R.C.s; in fact, I want to see them delivered from the vile and wicked system of falsehoods in which they are bound.

There are vile and vicious falsehoods in every denomination.
Have you heard of the Prosperity movement?
Have you heard of what the reformed believe?
Have you heard of Faith Only? Now THAT can actually get people into hell...
the CC may have incorrect teachings,,,but they will NOT lead peole to hell.

As I said, the reason for the discouragement is to avoid misunderstandings, not because the leadership rejects the R.C. teachings behind the blasphemous titles.

I don't know why Catholics start threads on Mary.
As if the CC depended on Mary for a person's salvation.

 

[GodsGrace]

then stop praying to Mary ... God hates it because it is idolatry

You owe me a reply.

God hates Christians that do not honor and venerate the Mother of His Son,,,Jesus,,,God, the 2nd Person of the Trinity.
Jesus loved His mother...
so should we.

I asked why you posted colossians....
please reply since your verse made no sense at all.
Thanks.