The argument for God you’ve never heard

[amigo de christo]

Many speak of unity of all claiming to be Christians citing John 17:20-26 but fail to understand Jesus said before this in John 17:19 that we can only be sanctified through the truth

John 17:19
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

They fail to understand that Jesus tells us the Truth is God's Word - John 17:17

Many claiming to be Christians these day do not accept God's Word as being Truth and instead go by religious teachings from their church denomination which is traditions of men.

because what these many do not realize is
that the devil himself has people wrapped up in wool that do his work .
The devil himself can say unity , can say love , can Say GOD is love , HE can quoate any scripture .
BUT HE GONNA TWIST IT .
HE gonna bring them into the wrong version of unity , wrong version of peace , wrong version of love and unto him as being GOD .
People are so ignorant of the scrips and cling to men and their denomiantial teachings
Because they trust is in men and because their hopes were in THIS WORLD , their kingdom was EARTHERN
and nOT heavenly . YOU cannot blend both the heavenly kingdom and the earthly kingdoms as one .
BUT THEY DO . THEY DO that . making it only the earthern kings and kingdoms they serve and h oped in .......
MY KINGDOM is absolutely NOT OF THIS WORLD .
IF MY KINGDOM were of this world THEN I WOULD RUN to men , to the best men i thought could give me the best life now .
AND they do that , and they are DECIEVED . THEY will also FIGHT for their kingdom
which OH YEAH , due to its earthern , SO WILL their weapons be earthren . THEY GONNA KILL . THEY ARE GOING
to SOON try and literally kill , remove all who they see as a danger to their so called kingdom .

 

[Rhetro]

Isn't that an argument for trusting "sense data"?

No, because using our senses to interact with the world is not the same as adopting strict empiricism, because raw sensory data is completely meaningless without a prior, rational mind patterned after the Logos to interpret and structure it.

 

[Rhetro]

Many speak of unity of all claiming to be Christians citing John 17:20-26 but fail to understand Jesus said before this in John 17:19 that we can only be sanctified through the truth

John 17:19
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

They fail to understand that Jesus tells us the Truth is God's Word - John 17:17

Many claiming to be Christians these day do not accept God's Word as being Truth and instead go by religious teachings from their church denomination which is traditions of men.

Except that when Jesus said 'Your word is truth' in John 17, the New Testament did not even exist yet, which means the 'Word' was the living truth taught by Christ to His Apostles..the exact same Holy Tradition that later compiled and preserved your very Bible you are using to attack the Church.

Since the New Testament did not exist when Jesus said those words in John 17, how can you know which books belong in the Bible without relying on the historical judgment and Tradition of the Church that compiled them?

 

[Rhetro]

I would advise us all to return to the holy scriptures .
If any here thinks Church and politics , church and state merging is good , OH no it aint .
What became of t hose who did so
was a machine of madness that led to the persecution of those who did not conform
to the state religon. Just like it soon will with this inclusive state world religoin .
Oh yes we got a world religoin at work RIGHT NOW .
And by means of an ecumencal harlot who has infiltrated not just the denominations
but also the false religions , she has remolded an image of a god they can all believe is GOD
is love and is his plan for world peace .
ALL of it is a lie and a sham .
They simply used certain words like GOD is love and judge not
in order to remove fundamental core doctrines and mold a love god and a god of peace
that ALL would believe is GOD . ALL of it was a lie . The inlcusive god is NOT THE GOD of CHRIST
IT is another god who has come in his own name to NOW merge the false religons with christendom
and have them all beleive they serve the same GOD and that this is his plan for world peace .
ONLY the false religons DO NOT serve the same GOD true christains do
and the gospel HAS been made void by that lie . This is that which is of anti christ .

I agree with you that the deceptive, ecumenical 'inclusive god' of modern culture is a lie from the antichrist...when I say the Church Fathers transformed the Roman Empire, I don't mean merging with the state to force compliance, but rather using the uncompromised truth of the Logos to completely demolish the false philosophies of their day.

In Symphonia (Harmony), the church and state remain completely distinct, the state protects the people, but bows to the spiritual truth of Christ. History shows that whenever corrupt rulers tried to use political power to force compliance with heresy, the greatest saints chose exile and martyrdom rather than let the government compromise the faith. The empire was transformed by the intellectual brilliance of the early Church Fathers who demolished those false philosophies, not by using the sword to force fake compliance.

 

[amigo de christo]

I agree with you that the deceptive, ecumenical 'inclusive god' of modern culture is a lie from the antichrist...when I say the Church Fathers transformed the Roman Empire, I don't mean merging with the state to force compliance, but rather using the uncompromised truth of the Logos to completely demolish the false philosophies of their day.

In Symphonia (Harmony), the church and state remain completely distinct, the state protects the people, but bows to the spiritual truth of Christ. History shows that whenever corrupt rulers tried to use political power to force compliance with heresy, the greatest saints chose exile and martyrdom rather than let the government compromise the faith. The empire was transformed by the intellectual brilliance of the early Church Fathers who demolished those false philosophies, not by using the sword to force fake compliance.

Rhetro i wanna ask you a question my friend .
From whence do you think the ecumeincal inclusive god , concerning the religious side came from .
Yes its the same god that also is in society as well .
Their doctrines dont ag ree . and even within this realm
they often even can be pi tted one ag ainst another , say like the right verses the left .
But concerning the key major place on the religious side
WHO mainly brought it in . Early on and many years ago
i beleived it was new a ge . And i was not wrong . But i soon realized
the key one behind it . OH its new age all right , BUT
i noticed way way back that while it was already well into the protestant and catholic realm
That they were not all g oing around saying HEY everyone we are protestant and its time to re turn to that .
NO SIR . IT was hey we are all catholic and its time to come back .
THAT SAME UNHOLY ENTITY that had overtaken many long long ago even in and before the days of constantine
OH IT WAS HERE AND HAD GROWN MASSIVE NOW .
And just like in the days of constantine , it was a state religoin baby . and it did PANDER to please even the false religoins .
JUST LIKE TODAY . ONLY THIS IS ON A global scale now .
And its ecumeincal phase , OH its not in the early st ages ,
IN Fact any day now it can easily become the CRUSADE phase .
ENFORCED THIS TIME by the most powerful AI image speaking led digital no buy no sell system EVER SEEN .
WE IN THE LAST HOURS my friend . AND the greatest hour of tribulation to ever strike agaisnt the sheep
COMETH . this is gonna be a blood bath against the sheep that did not conform

 

[Rhetro]

From whence do you think the ecumeincal inclusive god , concerning the religious side came from .

The modern heresy of ecumenical sentimentalism did not come from the historic Church, but was birthed in Western Protestant revivalism and theological liberalism as a human attempt to glue together a fractured Christianity that had already split into thousands of subjective pieces

THAT SAME UNHOLY ENTITY that had overtaken many long long ago even in and before the days of constantine
OH IT WAS HERE AND HAD GROWN MASSIVE NOW .

Well, to call the Church of the Holy Martyrs, the Ecumenical Councils, and Saints like Athanasius an "unholy entity" is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit who guides the Church, entirely ignoring that the Saints chose exile and death rather than compromise one bit of the faith to please the Roman emperors.

And its ecumeincal phase , OH its not in the early st ages ,
IN Fact any day now it can easily become the CRUSADE phase .

The coming technocratic deception is not powered by the ancient liturgical Christian faith, but by a secular, godless globalism that seeks to stamp out traditional Orthodoxy because our holy tradition refuses to bow to the shifting whims of the modern world.

WE IN THE LAST HOURS my friend . AND the greatest hour of tribulation to ever strike agaisnt the sheep

The Lord promised that the gates of hell would never prevail against His Church, if the Church truly apostatized under Constantine, then Christ's promise failed, making the very Scriptures you rely on completely groundless.

Matthew 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

 

[Wrangler]

The most common question from nonbelievers: “What is your evidence?”

See these threads.

Evidence To Be Seen

We should not and need not abandon the field of evidence to the lost enemies of our Lord. See Psalm 19. In that thread, I made the following points. While faith is the evidence of things unseen, there is evidence to be seen. (In this thread, I want to compile the evidence.) Are you required to...

www.christianityboard.com

Evidence To Be Seen - Part 2, In Scripture

While folks like @Behold lean heavily on faith and against works, James does talk about the union of faith and works in 2:18. The virtue of works is the objective evidence of its existence. While God rested on the 7th Day, we are not deists. God continues to work, to show his faithfulness. My...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Rhetro]

See these threads.

Evidence To Be Seen

We should not and need not abandon the field of evidence to the lost enemies of our Lord. See Psalm 19. In that thread, I made the following points. While faith is the evidence of things unseen, there is evidence to be seen. (In this thread, I want to compile the evidence.) Are you required to...

www.christianityboard.com

Evidence To Be Seen - Part 2, In Scripture

While folks like @Behold lean heavily on faith and against works, James does talk about the union of faith and works in 2:18. The virtue of works is the objective evidence of its existence. While God rested on the 7th Day, we are not deists. God continues to work, to show his faithfulness. My...

www.christianityboard.com

Went through both links. So you’re an evidentialist.

The problem with the evidentialist approach is that by reducing the Sovereign Creator to a statistical probability of "more likely than not" based on raw scientific data, you are accidentally kneeling before the idol of secular empiricism and treating autonomous human reason as a judge sitting above God, rather than recognizing that Christ as the Logos is the absolute, necessary prerequisite for logic and science to exist in the first place.

 

[Wrangler]

Went through both links. So you’re an evidentialist.

Yes, I am a reasonable person. I know you are new here and I’ve told our Atheist friend that - because of evidence - I don’t have enough faith to be an Atheist.

Ever hear the quote from Galileo, “l don’t believe in a God who would give us a reasoning mind to demand we forego its use?” Smart man, that Galileo!

The problem with the evidentialist approach is that by reducing the Sovereign Creator to a statistical probability of "more likely than not" based on raw scientific data, you are accidentally kneeling before the idol of secular empiricism

No. Just speaking their language. Ever hear we should be “all things to all people so some might be saved?” I wonder what that might look like in practice?

and treating autonomous human reason as a judge sitting above God, rather than recognizing that Christ as the Logos is the absolute, necessary prerequisite for logic and science to exist in the first place.

I don’t believe this for one second! God told us to reason together. Ever hear that? There is only reason, not human reason, just like there are not 2 types of circles, human and other.

 

[ScottA]

I agree with this to some extent..only after spending enough time with a particular nonbeliever when it’s time to move on.

The issue is that overall this would abandon the intellectual battlefield and cede the world to secularism. Christ is Lord over the intellect, not just our feelings.

When we engage in apologetics, we aren't putting God on trial before a 'lesser' human judge. We are doing what 1 Peter 3:15 commands: providing a defense. We are exposing that the skeptic cannot even use logic, science, or reason without implicitly borrowing from the Christian worldview to do it.

Saying 'bid them good day' might sound pious, but it treats logic and science as 'things of this world' that belong to nonbelievers. They don't. Truth belongs to God. If the early Church Fathers had adopted this view, the Gospel would have never transformed the Roman Empire.

Good, valid points. And yes, there are different aspects to the non-believer issue. It is for this reason that we don't want to disregard or actually only train our focus on certain portions.

Indeed, we who believe in God (or know God) are to be a shining light into the darkness, rather than simply let non-believers be if that is what they choose, for this is following Christ. We just need to know that courting evil and trying to win certain among the crowd, is really a line we are not called to cross. Jesus' advice in sending out the twelve apostles, saying "whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet", does show entering into things with whoever would invite you in, but then also just what to do if they reject the message.

It is good to understand both perspectives.

 

[Rhetro]

Yes, I am a reasonable person. I know you are new here and I’ve told our Atheist friend that - because of evidence - I don’t have enough faith to be an Atheist.

Well using the famous slogan "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist" sounds clever in a pop-apologetics book, but it is a massive structural concession. By framing atheism as a system that requires "too much faith" and Christianity as a system supported by "evidence," you are implicitly agreeing with the atheist that "faith" is a bad thing, a blind leap into the dark that lacks data, while "evidence" is the supreme, neutral judge. You are subtly validating the atheist's exact definition of faith instead of challenging it.

Ever hear the quote from Galileo, “l don’t believe in a God who would give us a reasoning mind to demand we forego its use?” Smart man, that Galileo!

No one is asking you to forego the use of your reasoning mind, the question is what grounds your reasoning mind in the first place? Galileo was a brilliant scientist, but quoting him doesn't fix your epistemological problem. There is a big difference between using your reasoning mind as a gift from God to understand His creation, and using your reasoning mind to put God on trial as a statistical probability based on secular metrics.

No. Just speaking their language. Ever hear we should be “all things to all people so some might be saved?” I wonder what that might look like in practice?

When Paul said he became "all things to all people" (1 Corinthians 9:22), he meant adapting to cultural contexts and customs to preach the Gospel, he did not mean adopting the spiritually bankrupt, epistemological framework of the pagan world. Paul did not become a pagan rationalist to win rationalists, when he stood at the Areopagus in Acts 17, he attacked their foundational ignorance and proclaimed the sovereign reality of the True God, shattering their worldview rather than catering to it.

I don’t believe this for one second! God told us to reason together. Ever hear that? There is only reason, not human reason, just like there are not 2 types of circles, human and other.

Isaiah 1:18 is a call to repentance, not a neutral academic debate. Claiming there is no distinct "human reason" falsely treats the nonbeliever's darkened mind as an authoritative judge over God.

Answer this question: If reason is neutral, how does an atheist’s accidental worldview justify universal laws of logic in the first place, and why are you letting their fallen intellect judge the Creator using tools they cannot even account for?