The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[Sel@h]

Why do you not accept His words? He taught a post-trib rapture and you reject it.

Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

He’s afraid of the tribulation. His avatar conveys courage but he’s got none.

 

[Sel@h]

Lol.
You don't have any verses.
What a joke

You lie. You’re imitating someone else in the Bible who does that a lot.

John 8:44 (NKJV) “You are of [your] father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own [resources,] for he is a liar and the father of it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He’s afraid of the tribulation. His avatar conveys courage but he’s got none.

He doesn't even understand what the tribulation is. He tries to compare it to the flood of Noah's day. Jesus compared the flood to the wrath that will occur when He comes (Matthew 24:38-39), not to the tribulation that occurs before He comes. Yes, we will be caught up to Christ before His wrath comes down, but that happens on the day He returns, not 7 years before that. Jesus never taught a pre-trib rapture. Not even close.

 

[Sel@h]

He doesn't even understand what the tribulation is. He tries to compare it to the flood of Noah's day. Jesus compared the flood to the wrath that will occur when He comes (Matthew 24:38-39), not to the tribulation that occurs before He comes. Yes, we will be caught up to Christ before His wrath comes down, but that happens on the day He returns, not 7 years before that. Jesus never taught a pre-trib rapture. Not even close.

Yes, exactly. He has no real knowledge of the Bible. He just throws words around. He has no clue.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, exactly. He has no real knowledge of the Bible. He just throws words around. He has no clue.

The next time he actually exegetes any scripture and makes it clear how he is coming to his conclusions will be the first time. He thinks he can just throw a word salad rant, as you accurately called it, out there and that somehow proves something. No, it just proves that he has no idea how to debate and how to defend his doctrine using scripture. To think that Jesus was teaching a pre-trib rapture in Matthew 24:37-42 when that is nowhere near true shows how lacking his understanding of scripture is.

 

[Sel@h]

The next time he actually exegetes any scripture and makes it clear how he is coming to his conclusions will be the first time. He thinks he can just throw a word salad rant, as you accurately called it, out there and that somehow proves something. No, it just proves that he has no idea how to debate and how to defend his doctrine using scripture. To think that Jesus was teaching a pre-trib rapture in Matthew 24:37-42 when that is nowhere near true shows how lacking his understanding of scripture is.

It’s amazing too the way he boldly lies; that’s the only bold thing he does.

 

[Davy]

He doesn't even understand what the tribulation is. He tries to compare it to the flood of Noah's day. Jesus compared the flood to the wrath that will occur when He comes (Matthew 24:38-39), not to the tribulation that occurs before He comes. ....

Wait a minute.

Lord Jesus DID use the flood of Noah's day in comparison to the coming grand Deception by the false-Messiah at the end of this world. It's in His Book of Revelation.

Rev 12:15-17
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
KJV

That "water as a flood" out of the serpent's what? Out of his MOUTH. That means LIES TO CAUSE DECEPTION.

In Revelation 9 also appears that connection to the time of the flood of Noah, with the declaration of the "five months." Notice there also where the 'sting' by the locusts comes out of. Out of their MOUTHS.

The "five months" and the time of Noah's flood are linked together. The ark was upon the 'height' of flood waters for 150 days per Genesis 7. Per the old Hebrew calendar reckoning, 30 days equaled one month. Thus "five months" equaled 150 days. Starting when the flood waters reached their max height until they began receding was 150 days, or "five months".

That "five months" period of stinging by deception symbolically represents the time of the coming "great tribulation". Five months is what Lord Jesus shortened the tribulation to for the sake of His elect.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Wait a minute.

Lord Jesus DID use the flood of Noah's day in comparison to the coming grand Deception by the false-Messiah at the end of this world.

Nonsense. He didn't compare an event involving God's wrath to an event involving deception. He compared an event involving God's wrath in the past to an event involving God's wrath in the future that will occur when Jesus comes again. He said just as the flood destroyed them all in Noah's day "so also will be the coming of the Son of Man". That means He was saying that just as all unbelievers were killed by the flood in Noah's day, all unbelievers will be killed at His second coming. Very simple.

It's in His Book of Revelation.

Rev 12:15-17
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
KJV

That "water as a flood" out of the serpent's what? Out of his MOUTH. That means LIES TO CAUSE DECEPTION.

LOL. That is not a reference to the flood in Noah's day. Get serious. That is just using the word "flood" figuratively. It's not talking about a literal serpent casting a literal flood out of his mouth. Goodness gracious.

In Revelation 9 also appears that connection to the time of the flood of Noah, with the declaration of the "five months." Notice there also where the 'sting' by the locusts comes out of. Out of their MOUTHS.

The "five months" and the time of Noah's flood are linked together.

Nonsense! You are making things up from your very active imagination. That is not at all what Jesus indicated when He compared the effects of the flood to the effects of what will happen when He comes again. Peter also made that comparison in 2 Peter 3:6-7.

 

[Davy]

Nonsense. He didn't compare an event involving God's wrath to an event involving deception. He compared an event involving God's wrath in the past to an event involving God's wrath in the future that will occur when Jesus comes again. He said just as the flood destroyed them all in Noah's day "so also will be the coming of the Son of Man". That means He was saying that just as all unbelievers were killed by the flood in Noah's day, all unbelievers will be killed at His second coming. Very simple.


LOL. That is not a reference to the flood in Noah's day. Get serious. That is just using the word "flood" figuratively. It's not talking about a literal serpent casting a literal flood out of his mouth. Goodness gracious.


Nonsense! You are making things up from your very active imagination. That is not at all what Jesus indicated when He compared the effects of the flood to the effects of what will happen when He comes again. Peter also made that comparison in 2 Peter 3:6-7.

Obviously, your mind cannot focus on the concept of the timing of the "five months" of stinging by the locusts of Rev.9 that represents the shortened time of the great tribulation.

Matt 24:21-22
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
KJV

Trying to discuss Bible Scripture with you is the real nonsense, since you show you haven't even studied this matter per the Scriptures.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Obviously, your mind cannot focus on the concept of the timing of the "five months" of stinging by the locusts of Rev.9 that represents the shortened time of the great tribulation.

Matt 24:21-22
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
KJV

Trying to discuss Bible Scripture with you is the real nonsense, since you show you haven't even studied this matter per the Scriptures.

You are not even reading what Jesus said in Matthew 24:37-39. Revelation 9 talks about the locusts not being able to kill anyone. That has nothing to do with what Jesus was talking about. He was comparing the fact that all unbelievers were destroyed by the flood with what will happen at His second coming. Are you even reading the text? You are trying to directly compare two totally different things.

 

[William Barton]

Literal of course. A Humble servant approach to the greatest victory the world has ever seen.

Where does Jesus teach 2 comings and how can you tell them apart?

o. One future coming to a cloud in the sky to "rapture" believers in the Middle East (1Thessalonians 4:16-17).

o. Another future coming to Jerusalem, along with his angels (Revelation 19:11-21).

 

[jeffweeder]

o. One future coming to a cloud in the sky to "rapture" believers in the Middle East (1Thessalonians 4:16-17).

o. Another future coming to Jerusalem, along with his angels (Revelation 19:11-21).

The future coming Paul speaks of is the same coming with his Angels.
Neither Jesus or Paul ever differentiates between 2 comings ever.

Matt 16
Jesus said...,
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory and majesty of His Father with His angels, and then He will repay each one in accordance with what he has done.


Matt 25
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].
34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (demons);

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed [here and now] of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”

Luke 9:26
For whoever is ashamed [here and now] of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and the glory of the [heavenly] Father and of the holy angels.


2Thess 1
This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

Jude
14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, 15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”


It is clear that all NT writers agree on what happens when the Lord comes.
You can kiss your pre tribmill dreams goodbye if you are willing to except them.

 

[Sel@h]

You left oit rev 13, where power is given the ac to kill all believers.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

o. One future coming to a cloud in the sky to "rapture" believers in the Middle East (1Thessalonians 4:16-17).

How are you coming to this conclusion? There is no indication of this anywhere.

o. Another future coming to Jerusalem, along with his angels (Revelation 19:11-21).

Where does Revelation 19:11-21 say anything about Him coming to Jerusalem? Scripture teaches that we will meet Him "in the air" at His one and only future coming.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The future coming Paul speaks of is the same coming with his Angels.
Neither Jesus or Paul ever differentiates between 2 comings ever.

Matt 16
Jesus said...,
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory and majesty of His Father with His angels, and then He will repay each one in accordance with what he has done.


Matt 25
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].
34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (demons);

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed [here and now] of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”

Luke 9:26
For whoever is ashamed [here and now] of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and the glory of the [heavenly] Father and of the holy angels.


2Thess 1
This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

Jude
14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, 15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”


It is clear that all NT writers agree on what happens when the Lord comes.
You can kiss your pre tribmill dreams goodbye if you are willing to except them.

Amen, Jeff. Nowhere does scripture teach that Jesus will come in the future once without His angels and once with His angels. No, He is coming once and only once in the future and His angels will be with Him. Along with the souls of the dead in Christ (1 Thess 4:14).

 

[CrowCross]

Why do you not accept His words? He taught a post-trib rapture and you reject it.

Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

You do know the pre-tribbers agree with this verse as written?

 

[CrowCross]

Amen, Jeff. Nowhere does scripture teach that Jesus will come in the future once without His angels and once with His angels. No, He is coming once and only once in the future and His angels will be with Him. Along with the souls of the dead in Christ (1 Thess 4:14).

Who will be attending the Marriage Supper of the Lamb?

 

[CrowCross]

Where does Revelation 19:11-21 say anything about Him coming to Jerusalem? Scripture teaches that we will meet Him "in the air" at His one and only future coming.

Is this not tied in with Zech 14?

4On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south.

 

[CrowCross]

View attachment 92404

Because christians are killed in Rev 13...does this mean God left us or forsake us?

 

[Sel@h]

Because christians are killed in Rev 13...does this mean God left us or forsake us?

No. Consider eternal life.