The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[Sel@h]

When are these rewards given? I would say the 1 Cor 3 Bema Seat Judgement.

Rewards are given at the First Resurrection (when Jesus returns at the 7th trump).

Revelation 20:4-6 (KJV) 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Of course I know that....but you're interpretation contradicts. It takes two different pictures presented in the bible, disregards the contradictions and tries to merge them.

What supposed contradictions are you talking about exactly?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you haven't been raptured into your glorified body...that comes after the bible speaks of the marriage supper of the lamb as you claim...how is that possible?

I don't know what you're talking about. You need to learn to be more clear. The marriage supper of the Lamb will occur when Jesus returns and all believers will be there. We will be changed to have our glorified bodies when He returns. What is hard to understand about that?

 

[RandyDawson]

Why would that be necessary?

Because in the end times satan is going to be allowed to rule this world for a time.
Jesus got 3.5 years and satan is going to get 3.5 years

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

I'm not going to let any man deceived me by any means. Of course you are free to do what you want. I'm just saying what I'm going to do. According to your faith it shall be done unto you.

The catching away of the faithful was God's idea so I'm going to take that ride with Him.

 

[CrowCross]

What supposed contradictions are you talking about exactly?

One of the contradictions can be seen in this thread.

 

[CrowCross]

I don't know what you're talking about. You need to learn to be more clear. The marriage supper of the Lamb will occur when Jesus returns and all believers will be there. We will be changed to have our glorified bodies when He returns. What is hard to understand about that?

The bible presents it prior to the second coming.
The second coming is after the rapture that happened 7 years prior.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because in the end times satan is going to be allowed to rule this world for a time.
Jesus got 3.5 years and satan is going to get 3.5 years

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

I'm not going to let any man deceived me by any means. Of course you are free to do what you want. I'm just saying what I'm going to do. According to your faith it shall be done unto you.

The catching away of the faithful was God's idea so I'm going to take that ride with Him. View attachment 92436

You are conflating deception with God's wrath. Read 1 Thessalonians 5:9 again. It says we are not appointed to (God's) wrath. It does not say we are not appointed to go through trials and times of spiritual deception and wickedness where our faith is tested. You need to ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7) so that you start understanding scripture in context.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The bible presents it prior to the second coming.

No, it doesn't. Where do you get that idea from?

The second coming is after the rapture that happened 7 years prior.

No, it isn't. Again, where do you get that idea from?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

One of the contradictions can be seen in this thread.

You don't make any sense. If that's the best you can do, then I will just assume that you are not able to come up with any kind of convincing argument to back up your claims.

 

[Sel@h]

The bible presents it prior to the second coming.
The second coming is after the rapture that happened 7 years prior.

The Second Coming of Jesus Christ follows the tribulation. The “false christ" (the Antichrist) arrives first, at the 6th trump. Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords returns at the 7th trump.

The return of Christ marks the end of the tribulation and in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, brings in the Millennium:
1 Corinthians 15:52-57 (KJV) 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory? 56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. 57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Dryhn]

The Second Coming of Jesus Christ follows the tribulation. The “false christ" (the Antichrist) arrives first, at the 6th trump. Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords returns at the 7th trump.

Is that the 1 Thess 4:16-17 coming ?

 

[Sel@h]

Is that the 1 Thess 4:16-17 coming ?

Amen! Yes, it is:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (KJV) 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[jeffweeder]

Is that the 1 Thess 4:16-17 coming ?

Yes.
Paul, John, Peter etc all teach the Lords own promise to come. There can only be one.


1Thess 4
15 For we say this to you by the Lord’s [own] word, that we who are still alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede [into His presence] those [believers] who have fallen asleep [in death].

 

[rebuilder 454]

The Second Coming of Jesus Christ follows the tribulation. The “false christ" (the Antichrist) arrives first, at the 6th trump. Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords returns at the 7th trump.

The return of Christ marks the end of the tribulation and in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, brings in the Millennium:
1 Corinthians 15:52-57 (KJV) 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory? 56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. 57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Your setting is incorrect.
The setting at the "one taken" of mat 24 is normal life, buying and selling, marriages, planning for the future, and everyday life.

So your setting you are presenting is , exactly opposite.

Further, the setting of rev 13 is one of every person refusing the mark martyred.
So not only is your setting off, but you are in error against the bible vivid depiction of Rev 13.

Also only the 144,000 are sealed against the flying scorpions. ( obviously either saints get stung or they are not there to seal.)

The elephant in the room is that you guys have no clue as to the purpose of the Tribulation, or the "time of the Gentiles ending", the "bride and groom dynamic", or what the marriage supper is, or the obvious 3 comings.
Remember, you guys painted yourselves into 7 or 8 corners and , as an after thought you guys were forced to defy the Bible in the "one coming" debacle, and the " no raptured saint ever goes to heaven" farce that you guys are stuck with.
So poorly poorly thought out.
Such Appalling dilemmas in that postrib doctrine.


So many things we introduce into your doctine that makes it impossible.
Bottom line , is you can not defend your position.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Amen! Yes, it is:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (KJV) 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
View attachment 92453

Half right is 100% wrong.
Pssst, the rapture is the groom gathering the bride.

There are hundreds of postribber teachers.
NONE OF THEM EVEN KNOW WHAT THE RAPTURE IS.
They are "tribulation centered", as are you.
Nothing in any of your doctrine has the bride and groom.

In fact that dynamic, WHICH IS MISSING in your doctrine) can not fit ANYWHERE IN THE ACTUAL FACTS OF THE RAPTURE.

Try it.
Fit the "groom coming for the bride" into your doctrine.

Insert it somewhere in there.

 

[Sel@h]

Fit the "groom coming for the bride" into your doctrine.

Easy for those who actually study:

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (KJV) 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[CrowCross]

The Second Coming of Jesus Christ follows the tribulation. The “false christ" (the Antichrist) arrives first, at the 6th trump. Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords returns at the 7th trump.

The return of Christ marks the end of the tribulation and in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, brings in the Millennium:
1 Corinthians 15:52-57 (KJV) 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory? 56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. 57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The second coming can be seen in two parts...the rapture/resurrection ....followed by the antichrist and the 7 year tribulation..followed by the physical return of Christ then the 1,000 year reign of Christ.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The second coming can be seen in two parts...the rapture/resurrection ....followed by the antichrist and the 7 year tribulation..followed by the physical return of Christ then the 1,000 year reign of Christ.

She does not know the purpose of the trib, the purpose of the rapture, or anything concerning the bride and groom.

Ask her to insert any if those intonthat doctrine.
It is also comical that the "one taken" of mat 24, is half of a group taken before the flood.

So, in their doctrine of "wicked taken" in mat 24, they are saying that half the world's population is born again, and half wicked.

IOW they have duped themselves into a "wicked man rapture", pretrib!!!!!
How funny is that??????

 

[rebuilder 454]

Easy for those who actually study:

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (KJV) 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

....and note your "tribulations" centered doctrine has a non comforting "you all die brutal deaths" message of doom and gloom.

Who are you comforting in your message?

 

[RandyDawson]

The Second Coming of Jesus Christ follows the tribulation. The “false christ" (the Antichrist) arrives first, at the 6th trump. Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords returns at the 7th trump.

Yes, that's when Jesus actually returns to earth and establishes His 1000 year reign as ruler over this world at which time he removes satan and his demons along with many evil people from the earth.

Prior to this there will b e a catching away of the faithful of the Body of Christ where these faithful meet Jesus in the air. During this catching away (rapture) Jesus does not come down to earth and this is not His second coming. Instead this is the removal of His faithful.