LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU! WAKE UP BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!

[rwb]

The initial grace of justification is a free gift yes

Thks

Perseverance is conditional

ex 20 mt 19:17 1 tim 6:14 keep the commandments
deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
ez 36:25-27 ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Mk 13:13 mt 10:22 endure to the end
Matt 7:14 narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life
Matt 16:24 If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Matt 24:13 endure to the end
Jn 3:16 continues in believing
Jn 15:4 abide in christ
Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing
Jn 15:10 keep my commandments
Rom 1:5 obedience
Rom 8:1 who walk not according to the flesh
Rom 8:13-17 but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 11:22 if thou continue in his goodness:
1 cor 7:24 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1 cor 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
2 thes 1:4 faith & patience
heb 6:12 faith and patience inherit the promises.
Gal 5:2-4 fallen
Gal 5:25 if we live in the spirit
Col 1:21-23 If ye continue in the faith
Col 2:5 steadfast
2 Tim 2:3 endure hardship
2 Tim 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
1 pet 2:20 if we suffer patiently
1 Jn 2:24-28 grace must abide in us
1 Jn 3:6 abideth in Him (Christ)
Heb 3:4-6 if we hold fast
Heb 6:4-9 if they fall away
Heb 12:7 if ye endure
Heb 12:22-25 if we turn away
James 1:12 endureth

1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Show a single verse of Scripture that proves some who have been born again and possessing ETERNAL life will not persevere to the end! Also, where can I find any mention of this made up "initial grace"? I find this nowhere in the Scriptures.

I give you this challenge because I am confident through strong faith that God's Word is NOT contradictive as you and any who believes Christ was wrong when He says the life He gives born again believers is ETERNAL must be contradiction upon contradiction!

I join with Paul in saying, "I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." (2Tim1:12)

Romans 1:16 (KJV) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Unlike you, I have blessed assurance because I don't rely on my strength, knowing that I am kept by the power of God in me through faith unto salvation.

1Pe 1:3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Perhaps you lack this confidence because you think believers persevere unto the end through deeds of the flesh. You don't even understand that we persevere to the end because God, through His Spirit is working in us to both will and do of His good pleasure.

Philippians 2:13 (KJV) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Your doctrine displays a lack of faith in Christ to keep His promises! You would rather force contradiction and confusion into the Word of God teaching doctrine of demons.

 

[rwb]

We have a state of grace not salvation

Grace can be lost

Eph 5:2-6
gal 5:1-4
gal 5:19-21
gal 6:7-8
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
2 cor 4:7
1 tim 5:12
rev 21:8
rev 21:27
rom 8:1
can lose grace gal 5:4
can have grace in vain 1 cor 15:10
treasure in earthen vessels 2 cor 4:7 fragile can be lost
1 Jn 3:15 no life (grace)

We have union by grace not eternal salvation!

Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 10:10 life and life more abundantly (grace)

Thks

The Bible gives born again believers assurance that not only have we been saved, but we are also being saved as we walk through this life, and that in the end on the last day of this age we shall be saved and changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible body fit for everlasting life with Christ on the new earth.

You continue to beat the drum against eternal security Christ assures us we have when we are born again, because you do not believe the words spoken by Christ. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." You change this truth to we are saved by grace only if we can remain faithful through obedient perfection as we work FOR, not OUT our salvation because only then is it of God's grace.

 

[quietthinker]

we have to be on our guards and examine everything with scripture and most important to endure until the end, endurance is the Key

Don't you think there is something specific in this warning?......and in regard to endurance, endurance in what?

 

[Dryhn]

The Bible gives born again believers assurance that not only have we been saved, but we are also being saved as we walk through this life, and that in the end on the last day of this age we shall be saved and changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible body fit for everlasting life with Christ on the new earth.

You continue to beat the drum against eternal security Christ assures us we have when we are born again, because you do not believe the words spoken by Christ. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." You change this truth to we are saved by grace only if we can remain faithful through obedient perfection as we work FOR, not OUT our salvation because only then is it of God's grace.

1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
ARE saved, ARE justified, ARE HS sealed

Eph 2:8-9
Gal 2:16
Rom 3:28
Titus 3:5
Rom 4:5
Rom5:1
Faith ALONE :)

Keep up the good work brother :)

 

[faithhopecharity]

Those who have been born again through the Spirit of Christ in them can and often are disciplined/chastened/corrected/even may physically die by God, but never are they utterly lost, nor fallen so far as to forfeit the grace of God. None of these verses prove otherwise. Why? Because NOTHING can separate those who have been born again from the love of God through Christ Jesus our Lord.

Then explain this one?

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

No twist! It if we deny Him cause we can do so!

Thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Don't you think there is something specific in this warning?......and in regard to endurance, endurance in what?

Endure all things for love of God

Phil 1:29 call to faith alone? Nope faith and suffering

Grace is the cause of salvation but suffering is the means

Thks

 

[Dryhn]

Then explain this one?

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

No twist! It if we deny Him cause we can do so!

Thks

Peter denied Christ 3 times, yet Peter is still saved :)

 

[LoveYeshua]

Don't you think there is something specific in this warning?......and in regard to endurance, endurance in what?

You dont remember the words of Christ? you're not the only one, let me remind you;

Jesus directly teaches endurance to the end​

Matthew 10:22
"And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved."

Matthew 24:13
"But he who endures to the end shall be saved."

Mark 13:13
"And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved."

the need to remain faithful​

Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

John 8:31
"Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, 'If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.'"

John 15:4
"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me."

John 15:6
"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."

John 15:10
"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love."

Jesus' words in Revelation: Overcoming to the end​

These passages are especially important because the risen Jesus speaks directly to the seven churches.

Revelation 2:7 — Ephesus
"To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God."

Revelation 2:10 — Smyrna
"Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life."

Revelation 2:11 — Smyrna
"He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."

Revelation 2:17 — Pergamos
"To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat."

Revelation 2:25-26 — Thyatira
"But hold fast what you have till I come. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations."

Revelation 3:5 — Sardis
"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."

Revelation 3:11-12 — Philadelphia
"Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God."

Revelation 3:21 — Laodicea
"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."

final promise to those who overcome and endured to the end​

Revelation 21:7
"He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son."

 

[quietthinker]

You dont remember the words of Christ? you're not the only one, let me remind you;

Jesus directly teaches endurance to the end​

Matthew 10:22
"And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved."

Matthew 24:13
"But he who endures to the end shall be saved."

Mark 13:13
"And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved."

the need to remain faithful​

Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

John 8:31
"Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, 'If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.'"

John 15:4
"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me."

John 15:6
"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."

John 15:10
"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love."

Jesus' words in Revelation: Overcoming to the end​

These passages are especially important because the risen Jesus speaks directly to the seven churches.

Revelation 2:7 — Ephesus
"To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God."

Revelation 2:10 — Smyrna
"Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life."

Revelation 2:11 — Smyrna
"He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."

Revelation 2:17 — Pergamos
"To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat."

Revelation 2:25-26 — Thyatira
"But hold fast what you have till I come. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations."

Revelation 3:5 — Sardis
"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."

Revelation 3:11-12 — Philadelphia
"Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God."

Revelation 3:21 — Laodicea
"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."

final promise to those who overcome and endured to the end​

Revelation 21:7
"He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son."

I would ask, what is the nature (the substance) of endurance; of remaining faithful; of overcoming and of doing the Father's will?

 

[rwb]

Then explain this one?

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

No twist! It if we deny Him cause we can do so!

Thks

Do you really believe that one who has been born again through the Spirit of Christ in them will deny Christ? How do you reconcile believing this proves born again believers possessing eternal life will deny Christ in light of the verses that assure us the life Christ gives whosoever believes in Him, being born again of His Spirit is ETERNAL?

The Word of God does not contradict itself. If the doctrine you embrace cannot be reconciled with contrasting verses, its apparent it is your doctrine that errs because the Bible does not. How do you reconcile your doctrine against the verses assuring us the life we receive in Christ when we are born again through the Holy Spirit is eternal?

1 Thessalonians 5:24 (KJV) Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

2 Thessalonians 3:3 (KJV) But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

Titus 1:2 (KJV) In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Heb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Heb 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

 

[rwb]

Endure all things for love of God

Phil 1:29 call to faith alone? Nope faith and suffering

Grace is the cause of salvation but suffering is the means

Thks

Whosoever has been born again through Christ' Spirit in us are already overcomers through the Spirit of truth residing in us. He that does not believe does not have the Son.

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1Jo 5:6 ¶ This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1Jo 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jo 5:10 ¶ He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[LoveYeshua]

I would ask, what is the nature (the substance) of endurance; of remaining faithful; of overcoming and of doing the Father's will?

It has to do with one's foundation, and yes doing the fathers will. here ill quote Jesus again because he Nails it perfectly;

Mat 7:24 Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

Mat 7:25 The rain fell, the torrents raged, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because its foundation was on the rock.

Mat 7:26 But everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

Mat 7:27 The rain fell, the torrents raged, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell—and great was its collapse!”

Cheers

 

[quietthinker]

It has to do with one's foundation, and yes doing the fathers will. here ill quote Jesus again because he Nails it perfectly;

Mat 7:24 Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

Mat 7:25 The rain fell, the torrents raged, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because its foundation was on the rock.

Mat 7:26 But everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

Mat 7:27 The rain fell, the torrents raged, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell—and great was its collapse!”

Cheers

....and what are his words? (see the highlighted above)

The Jews asked Jesus what are the works God requires and he gave them the following answer....John 6:28-29

'Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.'

Do you understand what Jesus is saying here?

 

[Dryhn]

You dont remember the words of Christ? you're not the only one, let me remind you;

Jesus directly teaches endurance to the end​

Matthew 10:22
"And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved."

Matthew 24:13
"But he who endures to the end shall be saved."

Mark 13:13
"And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved."

the need to remain faithful​

Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

John 8:31
"Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, 'If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.'"

John 15:4
"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me."

John 15:6
"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."

John 15:10
"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love."

Jesus' words in Revelation: Overcoming to the end​

These passages are especially important because the risen Jesus speaks directly to the seven churches.

Revelation 2:7 — Ephesus
"To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God."

Revelation 2:10 — Smyrna
"Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life."

Revelation 2:11 — Smyrna
"He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."

Revelation 2:17 — Pergamos
"To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat."

Revelation 2:25-26 — Thyatira
"But hold fast what you have till I come. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations."

Revelation 3:5 — Sardis
"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."

Revelation 3:11-12 — Philadelphia
"Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God."

Revelation 3:21 — Laodicea
"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."

final promise to those who overcome and endured to the end​

Revelation 21:7
"He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son."

Jesus directly teaches endurance to the end
To the audience He was referring to

Besides faith/trust in the gospel, where does Jesus VIA Paul teach endurance as a requirement for you to enter Heaven ?

 

[amigo de christo]

Those who have been born again through the Spirit of Christ in them can and often are disciplined/chastened/corrected/even may physically die by God, but never are they utterly lost, nor fallen so far as to forfeit the grace of God. None of these verses prove otherwise. Why? Because NOTHING can separate those who have been born again from the love of God through Christ Jesus our Lord.

Regulators and contenders for the one true faith , MOUNT up .
We have an ecumeincal harlot who has brought the inclusive love of her father
and an anti christ peace unto many . Its Christ JESUS for the sheep . we dont bend the knee to a harlot
or her father or her anti christ peace .

 

[Dryhn]

Regulators and contenders for the one true faith , MOUNT up .
We have an ecumeincal harlot who has brought the inclusive love of her father
and an anti christ peace unto many . Its Christ JESUS for the sheep . we dont bend the knee to a harlot
or her father or her anti christ peace .

If you believe 'performance' is a requirement for you ADC to enter Heaven then please list the verses where Jesus VIA Paul teaches that to be so.

 

[Sel@h]

Then explain this one?

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

No twist! It if we deny Him cause we can do so!

Thks

These are not the Elect, though. Free will people might deny Him.

 

[LoveYeshua]

....and what are his words? (see the highlighted above)

The Jews asked Jesus what are the works God requires and he gave them the following answer....John 6:28-29

'Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.'

Do you understand what Jesus is saying here?

I don't understand why I should teach you this, you should know the Lords words already , his words are eternal life.

To believe is the first thing only but it does not stop there to keep his words, abiding in his words the second thing we have to do. Anything Jesus asked us to do is the works God requires of us, its that simple.

Matthew 7:21 (KJV)
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
Jesus makes an important distinction: calling Him Lord is not the same as actually living under His lordship.

believing in God is not enough by itself​

James 2:19 (KJV)
"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

Jesus said to keep His commandments​

John 14:15 (KJV)
"If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Obedience is an expression of genuine love for Jesus.

Jesus said we must follow Him​

Luke 9:23 (KJV)
"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me."
Following Jesus involves surrendering our own desires and making Him the center of our lives.

Furthermore know that Faith without works is dead​

James 2:17 (KJV)
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

Its not just hearing the word and believe its doing what Jesus asked of us to do.


Blessings

 

[LoveYeshua]

Jesus directly teaches endurance to the end
To the audience He was referring to

Besides faith/trust in the gospel, where does Jesus VIA Paul teach endurance as a requirement for you to enter Heaven ?

Are Jesus words not enough for you? Jesus told us what we need to do to have eternal life. His words are eternal life and are in John, Matthew, Mark and Luke.

About the audience Jesus was speaking to, mainly the Jews and a few gentiles, make no mistake here, Jesus sent the apostles to preach ALL he did and said to all the world, that is because its for all mankind. To say Jesus message is only for Jews is contrary to scripture. I hope its not what you meant.

as for Paul, Yes. Paul explicitly teaches perseverance, endurance In multiple places.

• Romans 2:7 — Eternal life is connected with patient continuance in doing good.
• Colossians 1:23 — We are to continue in the faith and not be moved away from the hope of the gospel.
• 1 Corinthians 15:1–2 — We are saved by the gospel if we hold firmly to it.
• Galatians 6:9 — We will reap if we do not faint.
• 2 Timothy 2:12 — If we deny Christ, He will deny us

Perseverance is not a payment for salvation; it is part of the biblical picture of living faith, abidint in Christ.

 

[Dryhn]

Are Jesus words not enough for you? Jesus told us what we need to do to have eternal life. His words are eternal life and are in John, Matthew, Mark and Luke.

About the audience Jesus was speaking to, mainly the Jews and a few gentiles, make no mistake here, Jesus sent the apostles to preach ALL he did and said to all the world, that is because its for all mankind. To say Jesus message is only for Jews is contrary to scripture. I hope its not what you meant.

as for Paul, Yes. Paul explicitly teaches perseverance, endurance In multiple places.

• Romans 2:7 — Eternal life is connected with patient continuance in doing good.
• Colossians 1:23 — We are to continue in the faith and not be moved away from the hope of the gospel.
• 1 Corinthians 15:1–2 — We are saved by the gospel if we hold firmly to it.
• Galatians 6:9 — We will reap if we do not faint.
• 2 Timothy 2:12 — If we deny Christ, He will deny us

Perseverance is not a payment for salvation; it is part of the biblical picture of living faith, abidint in Christ.

Except for faith which is THE requirement, NONE of your selected verses teach endurance (as in personal effort) as a requirement for LY to enter Heaven

Try again LY