Jesus is a human being but not the one true God

[bbyrd009]

Can we believe what the N.T. says about Jesus in the gospels?

i would say you better, but then i believe that Jesus was the Son of Man, just like He said, while you seem to believe that Jesus was God, which i cannot find anywhere except in men's doctrines

 

[bbyrd009]

I learned that our faith must be based on something real.
That our faith in Jesus is a REASONABLE faith.

Why?

because you have not followed Christ would be my guess, but please don't take that wrong ok. I strictly avoid "reasonable faith," i like "unreasonable faith, i am not interested in control or reason, although that might not make sense to you right now. I know that is weird ok, hence the link, which i have not checked any of those links in that search page btw, my guess is that most of them are titled "unreasonable," but then go on to attempt to make faith reasonable. Go, and make hate your life reasonable if you can

 

[bbyrd009]

But we could be sure that the 11 Apostles saw Jesus resurrected.

well, you are "sure" that Jesus was God, too, ok, and i am not. But i doubt it is that big of a deal tbh.

is that a picture of Linda Ronstat? Are you Italian? ty

 

[bbyrd009]

How do you disagree with a fact?

this "fact" being what exactly? Sorry again

 

[bbyrd009]

But unless you believe what Christian's believe you are not a Christian.

ah ok, ty, i will add this to the book of the law of GodsGrace, but tbh i can't really even get any meaning from this, as Christians are so obviously divided in what they believe; so you obviously mean the Christians that you approve of, or something. Not really sure there what you mean iow

 

[bbyrd009]

Are JWs Christian?
Why not?
They believe in Jesus.....

or at least Nehushtan, yes

 

[bbyrd009]

No

? why "no?" yes, i do, for a fact, without fail, every morning, drink a cup of coffee. Religiously.

 

[bbyrd009]

YOU don't get to make up what Christianity is.

ha why not, you are. I recommend it, personally. Seek your own salvation. You will reap what you sow

 

[bbyrd009]

You're a funny dude.
I have some ironing to do.

i could go find them and quote them if that would help, but they are on a different page, etc

 

[bbyrd009]

I wasn't speaking about a local church.

If you want to belong to the local swin club, you have to adhere by THEIR rules, not yours. Or you get kicked out.

 

[bbyrd009]

The apostles don't know what they ought!!!!!!

i doubt that is what the verse means, but it is interesting to note how the Apostles so clearly did not understand Christ, Peter being the Chief Misunderstander i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Are the historical accounts true

Or is Luke true?

my guess here would be that they are both true enough, and one is speaking to the literal/logical, while the other speaks to the spiritual

 

[bbyrd009]

Are the historical accounts true

Or is Luke true????????

fwiw i would like to suggest that for humans truth is better expressed in questions, not answers

 

[Helen]

Hi ByGrace,
It's seems important to me to understand this thread.

What it's really asking is:
Was Jesus the Son of God when He was born?

What say you?

(or was He just a human baby that THEN became God?)

Thanks. It seems a bit of a muddled thread to me..all over the place. ha!!

I believe that Jesus was The Son of God, ..God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince Of Peace...already, before He was born...from the beginning , before the foundation of the world. All were right there in Him...yet not revealed before the birth.
Isa 9:6 "For unto us a child IS born, unto us a son IS given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. "

My two cents for what it's worth.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thanks. It seems a bit of a muddled thread to me..all over the place. ha!!

I believe that Jesus was The Son of God, ..God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince Of Peace...already, before He was born...from the beginning , before the foundation of the world. All were right there in Him...yet not revealed before the birth.
Isa 9:6 "For unto us a child IS born, unto us a son IS given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. "

My two cents for what it's worth.

If Jesus wasn't God, we'd be breaking the very first commandment..
There are those who believe Jesus was not God.
bb is one of them but it's impossible to speak to him.

I will say this,
Anyone who does not believe that Jesus is God
CANNOT claim to be a Christian.

It should not say "Christian" on his avatar.
It should be changed by the mods.

 

[amadeus]

I agree with you,,everything you've said except one thing.
You said being a Christian just means trying to be like Christ.
Who was Christ?
Why would I want to be like him?

If we agree on that, and I think we might, then I'm good .

People will believe different things about what it means to be Christ-like. Some will never bother themselves with it one way of the other.

Why would we be want to be like him? Look at our world, planet Earth and the men we have encountered and what man has done with the things that God has made. Is there not something better? I believe so and so do others here probably including you.

God is the Creator. He has a purpose and included in that purpose is a desire to please us, but in order for us to be really pleased we must also please Him. He has given us the perfect model or goal to measure against, which is His Son Jesus. How to attain to it? First Jesus lived his life here as a man of flesh with all our man's temptations, to give us a picture... and also to make it possible for us to attain to that seemingly impossible goal of really becoming like him..

God gave us His Son for that picture, but it is not only painted for us not only in four gospels but throughout the Book we call the Bible.

So far beyond is the picture that we need help even to approach it closely. Remember God's words to Moses:

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." Exodus 33:20

So we were given the Book to describe him for us, but we need more than the Book alone. We need the "eyes to see" what is really in the Book. Those "eyes" for us is the Holy Ghost in us. Before receiving those eyes we were spiritually blind.

At the start the Holy Ghost allows us to see God through a glass darkly, but eventually if allowed to work in us our vision will allow us to see him "face to face". We are promised something which was denied to Moses in the verse I quoted above.

Why would we want to be like him? So we can see his face. What is that we are to be seeing? How about the glory of God?

"When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

If we have ever fallen in love with person naturally, we will have a clue as to why we would want to seek his face and to be like him. Love [=God] is as He is. Human love is often in books and poetry and movies played as the ultimate goal for mankind, as if there was nothing higher. I am not saying it not high, but it is a long way from being the highest. Human love in its best example is still only a type or shadow of the real thing. The real thing is the "why" if we can even begin to understand it and to see it:

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9

The "face to face" should be our goal once we have received our first "through a glass darkly" vision of Him! Remember what Solomon wrote:

"Where there is no vision, the people perish..." Prov 29:18

 

[amadeus]

i would say you better, but then i believe that Jesus was the Son of Man, just like He said, while you seem to believe that Jesus was God, which i cannot find anywhere except in men's doctrines

What should our understanding of this verse be?

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." Heb 1:8

 

[Stranger]

so you say, yes

No, so the Scripture says.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

People will believe different things about what it means to be Christ-like. Some will never bother themselves with it one way of the other.

Why would we be want to be like him? Look at our world, planet Earth and the men we have encountered and what man has done with the things that God has made. Is there not something better? I believe so and so do others here probably including you.

God is the Creator. He has a purpose and included in that purpose is a desire to please us, but in order for us to be really pleased we must also please Him. He has given us the perfect model or goal to measure against, which is His Son Jesus. How to attain to it? First Jesus lived his life here as a man of flesh with all our man's temptations, to give us a picture... and also to make it possible for us to attain to that seemingly impossible goal of really becoming like him..

God gave us His Son for that picture, but it is not only painted for us not only in four gospels but throughout the Book we call the Bible.

So far beyond is the picture that we need help even to approach it closely. Remember God's words to Moses:

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." Exodus 33:20

So we were given the Book to describe him for us, but we need more than the Book alone. We need the "eyes to see" what is really in the Book. Those "eyes" for us is the Holy Ghost in us. Before receiving those eyes we were spiritually blind.

At the start the Holy Ghost allows us to see God through a glass darkly, but eventually if allowed to work in us our vision will allow us to see him "face to face". We are promised something which was denied to Moses in the verse I quoted above.

Why would we want to be like him? So we can see his face. What is that we are to be seeing? How about the glory of God?

"When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

If we have ever fallen in love with person naturally, we will have a clue as to why we would want to seek his face and to be like him. Love [=God] is as He is. Human love is often in books and poetry and movies played as the ultimate goal for mankind, as if there was nothing higher. I am not saying it not high, but it is a long way from being the highest. Human love in its best example is still only a type or shadow of the real thing. The real thing is the "why" if we can even begin to understand it and to see it:

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9

The "face to face" should be our goal once we have received our first "through a glass darkly" vision of Him! Remember what Solomon wrote:

"Where there is no vision, the people perish..." Prov 29:18

Your eyes to see, should never disagree with the Book. If they do, then your are believing a lie. That is what the Book is for.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

People will believe different things about what it means to be Christ-like. Some will never bother themselves with it one way of the other.

Why would we be want to be like him? Look at our world, planet Earth and the men we have encountered and what man has done with the things that God has made. Is there not something better? I believe so and so do others here probably including you.

God is the Creator. He has a purpose and included in that purpose is a desire to please us, but in order for us to be really pleased we must also please Him. He has given us the perfect model or goal to measure against, which is His Son Jesus. How to attain to it? First Jesus lived his life here as a man of flesh with all our man's temptations, to give us a picture... and also to make it possible for us to attain to that seemingly impossible goal of really becoming like him..

God gave us His Son for that picture, but it is not only painted for us not only in four gospels but throughout the Book we call the Bible.

So far beyond is the picture that we need help even to approach it closely. Remember God's words to Moses:

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." Exodus 33:20

So we were given the Book to describe him for us, but we need more than the Book alone. We need the "eyes to see" what is really in the Book. Those "eyes" for us is the Holy Ghost in us. Before receiving those eyes we were spiritually blind.

At the start the Holy Ghost allows us to see God through a glass darkly, but eventually if allowed to work in us our vision will allow us to see him "face to face". We are promised something which was denied to Moses in the verse I quoted above.

Why would we want to be like him? So we can see his face. What is that we are to be seeing? How about the glory of God?

"When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

If we have ever fallen in love with person naturally, we will have a clue as to why we would want to seek his face and to be like him. Love [=God] is as He is. Human love is often in books and poetry and movies played as the ultimate goal for mankind, as if there was nothing higher. I am not saying it not high, but it is a long way from being the highest. Human love in its best example is still only a type or shadow of the real thing. The real thing is the "why" if we can even begin to understand it and to see it:

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9

The "face to face" should be our goal once we have received our first "through a glass darkly" vision of Him! Remember what Solomon wrote:

"Where there is no vision, the people perish..." Prov 29:18

Very beautiful.
You must be very good at doing your sermons.
I'm a little worried now because some here do not believe Jesus is God.
I'm a traditional Christian.
Church taught by two big denominational churches.
I'm not much for learning from the holy spirit although He is the one that has enlightened those who teach.....well, not all these days.

Jesus Himself said that we must be born from above to see the Kingdom.
I find that everyone wants to be saved,
But not everyone wants to live in the kingdom.
IOW they want Jesus as savior
But not as Lord.

So yes.
We are to be like Jesus because He's God and has come to show us the way to the kingdom,,,which starts right here.