The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

[Rev20]

The Gentiles who are born of the Spirit are counted as offspring of Abraham, therefore, they are chosen as if they had been a natural descendant

There is no evidence of that. Rather, all evidence points to the contrary argument, that the remnant of Israel are God's chosen people, while the Gentiles were finally allowed into the kingdom without conversion to the laws of Moses, as previously required by the old covenant.

An analogy of that is found in the temple. Until Christ's sacrifice, Gentiles were not allowed into the inner court of the temple (called the "earth"), but were required to remain in the outer court (the "sea"), unless they were circumcised and converted to the laws of Moses as required by the old covenant.

But Christ broke down that wall by abolishing the old covenant with his death. However, in no case is it written that the Gentiles will ever become priests. The priesthood was promised specifically to the children of Israel.

Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. (Romans 9:7-8 [NIV])

Whereas those who naturally descended from Abraham are not all counted as descendants of Abraham, because they are not chosen,

It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. (Romans 9:6 [NIV])

There you go again, ripping verses out of context. Who was Paul's target audience? He tells you as plain as day:

"Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?" -- Rom 7:1 KJV

That target audience -- the children of Israel -- does not change until about the middle of Chapter 11, and then only briefly to warn some out-of-line Gentiles to quit bragging.

The letter to the Romans was address to those called to be saints, and the saints are all from the children of Israel. Therefore, the letter was most likely addressed to the founders of the church -- the devout Jews from Rome that were in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost:

"And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven . . . Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes," -- Acts 2:10 KJV -- Acts 2:5, 10 KJV

But even so, I will not argue the matter of the inclusion of the Gentiles into the promises of Israel any further, because my point of argument in all this is predestination and choice of God before the foundations of the world, even if you lessen the scope of who God chose from the foundation of the world, according to your own misguided belief, how can you deny God has predestined and chosen before the foundation of the world? Forget identifying "who" these chosen are, the scriptures declare this truth,

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love (Ephesians 1:4 [ESV])

And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. (Romans 8:30 [NIV])

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. (Romans 8:29 [NIV])

To the point where our lives are even written out in books in heaven before we even lived them,

You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed. (Psalm 139:16 [NLT])

These are truths you cannot deny.

I am not denying any of those truths. But I refuse to rip them out of context, as you insist on doing. Ephesians 1 and Romans 8 are referring ONLY to the remnant of Israel, as CLEARLY explained in my previous posts; and Psalms 139 is referring to Christ, who was also one of God's elect:

"Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them." -- Ps 139:16 KJV

There is a similar verse in Psalm 40:

"Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me," -- Ps 40:7 KJV

The Hebrews quoted that verse in reference to Christ's sacrifice of himself:

"Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God." -- Heb 10:5-7 KJV


By the way, the historical record seems to point to Augustine as the first to promote the false doctrine that Gentiles are "predestined" and "elect". The statements highlighted in red are completely false.

"Thus it is said by the Apostle Paul, 'That He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory, even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles. As He saith also in Hosea, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there shall they be called the children of the living God.' Here Paul applies the prophecy to the Gentiles. So also Peter, writing to the Gentiles, without naming the prophet, borrows his expressions when he says, 'But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye might show forth the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvellous light; which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.' From this it is plain that the words of the prophet, 'And the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured for multitude,' and the words immediately following, 'And it shall be that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there they shall be called the children of the living God,' do not apply to that Israel which is after the flesh, but to that of which the apostle says to the Gentiles, 'Ye therefore are the seed of Abraham, and heirs according to the promise.'" [Philip Schaff, Augustine, Works, Reply to Faustus the Manichæan, "Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers Ser 1 Vol 04." Charles Scribner's Sons, 1887, Book XXII.89, Rom 9:25, 1Pet 2:9-10, p.309]


In this next statement, Augustine rips a verse out of another passage [highlighted in blue] and inserts it into Romans 11:32,

"Then, as to that saying of the apostle, "For God hath concluded all in unbelief, that He may have mercy upon all," it does not mean that He will condemn no one; but the foregoing context shows what is meant. The apostle composed the epistle for the Gentiles who were already believers; and when he was speaking to them of the Jews who were yet to believe, he says, "For as ye in times past believed not God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief; even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy." Then he added the words in question with which these persons beguile themselves: "For God concluded all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all." All whom, if not all those of whom he was speaking, just as if he had said, "Both you and them?" God then concluded all those in unbelief, both Jews and Gentiles, whom He foreknew and predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that they might be confounded by the bitterness of unbelief, and might repent and believingly turn to the sweetness of God's mercy, and might take up that exclamation of the psalm, "How great is the abundance of Thy sweetness, O Lord, which Thou hast hidden for them that fear Thee, but hast perfected to them that hope," not in themselves, but "in Thee." He has mercy, then, on all the vessels of mercy. And what means "all?" Both those of the Gentiles and those of the Jews whom He predestinated, called, justified, glorified: none of these will be condemned by Him; but we cannot say none of all men whatever." [Philip Schaff, Augustine, The City of God, "Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers Ser 1 Vol 02." Charles Scribner's Sons, 1886, Rom 11:32, Book XXI, Chap 24, pp.471-72]

It is bad enough that Augustine made so many false statements. But to combine verses addressed to different audiences and from different contexts to create an entirely new context, is nothing short of scandalous.

Again, the statements in red are completely false.

Rev

 

[christiang]

There is no evidence of that. Rather, all evidence points to the contrary argument, that the remnant of Israel are God's chosen people, while the Gentiles were finally allowed into the kingdom without conversion to the laws of Moses, as previously required by the old covenant.

An analogy of that is found in the temple. Until Christ's sacrifice, Gentiles were not allowed into the inner court of the temple (called the "earth"), but were required to remain in the outer court (the "sea"), unless they were circumcised and converted to the laws of Moses as required by the old covenant.

But Christ broke down that wall by abolishing the old covenant with his death. However, in no case is it written that the Gentiles will ever become priests. The priesthood was promised specifically to the children of Israel.




There you go again, ripping verses out of context. Who was Paul's target audience? He tells you as plain as day:

"Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?" -- Rom 7:1 KJV

That target audience -- the children of Israel -- does not change until about the middle of Chapter 11, and then only briefly to warn some out-of-line Gentiles to quit bragging.

The letter to the Romans was address to those called to be saints, and the saints are all from the children of Israel. Therefore, the letter was most likely addressed to the founders of the church -- the devout Jews from Rome that were in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost:

"And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven . . . Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes," -- Acts 2:10 KJV -- Acts 2:5, 10 KJV




I am not denying any of those truths. But I refuse to rip them out of context, as you insist on doing. Ephesians 1 and Romans 8 are referring ONLY to the remnant of Israel, as CLEARLY explained in my previous posts; and Psalms 139 is referring to Christ, who was also one of God's elect:

"Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them." -- Ps 139:16 KJV

There is a similar verse in Psalm 40:

"Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me," -- Ps 40:7 KJV

The Hebrews quoted that verse in reference to Christ's sacrifice of himself:

"Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God." -- Heb 10:5-7 KJV


By the way, the historical record seems to point to Augustine as the first to promote the false doctrine that Gentiles are "predestined" and "elect". The statements highlighted in red are completely false.

"Thus it is said by the Apostle Paul, 'That He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory, even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles. As He saith also in Hosea, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there shall they be called the children of the living God.' Here Paul applies the prophecy to the Gentiles. So also Peter, writing to the Gentiles, without naming the prophet, borrows his expressions when he says, 'But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye might show forth the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvellous light; which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.' From this it is plain that the words of the prophet, 'And the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured for multitude,' and the words immediately following, 'And it shall be that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there they shall be called the children of the living God,' do not apply to that Israel which is after the flesh, but to that of which the apostle says to the Gentiles, 'Ye therefore are the seed of Abraham, and heirs according to the promise.'" [Philip Schaff, Augustine, Works, Reply to Faustus the Manichæan, "Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers Ser 1 Vol 04." Charles Scribner's Sons, 1887, Book XXII.89, Rom 9:25, 1Pet 2:9-10, p.309]


In this next statement, Augustine rips a verse out of another passage [highlighted in blue] and inserts it into Romans 11:32,

"Then, as to that saying of the apostle, "For God hath concluded all in unbelief, that He may have mercy upon all," it does not mean that He will condemn no one; but the foregoing context shows what is meant. The apostle composed the epistle for the Gentiles who were already believers; and when he was speaking to them of the Jews who were yet to believe, he says, "For as ye in times past believed not God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief; even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy." Then he added the words in question with which these persons beguile themselves: "For God concluded all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all." All whom, if not all those of whom he was speaking, just as if he had said, "Both you and them?" God then concluded all those in unbelief, both Jews and Gentiles, whom He foreknew and predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that they might be confounded by the bitterness of unbelief, and might repent and believingly turn to the sweetness of God's mercy, and might take up that exclamation of the psalm, "How great is the abundance of Thy sweetness, O Lord, which Thou hast hidden for them that fear Thee, but hast perfected to them that hope," not in themselves, but "in Thee." He has mercy, then, on all the vessels of mercy. And what means "all?" Both those of the Gentiles and those of the Jews whom He predestinated, called, justified, glorified: none of these will be condemned by Him; but we cannot say none of all men whatever." [Philip Schaff, Augustine, The City of God, "Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers Ser 1 Vol 02." Charles Scribner's Sons, 1886, Rom 11:32, Book XXI, Chap 24, pp.471-72]

It is bad enough that Augustine made so many false statements. But to combine verses addressed to different audiences and from different contexts to create an entirely new context, is nothing short of scandalous.

Again, the statements in red are completely false.

Rev

If the Israelites were chosen from before the foundation of the world, and we know that even the outcome of a roll of a dice is determined, why would you not think that the Gentiles are also chosen by God to come to salvation? Is the holy spirit not sent by God, which implies a choice of God was made, not a choice of man, whether he be Jew or Gentile? You are trying to refuse to understand the obvious, because you do not want to believe in the predestination and choice of God. This epistle of Paul is addressed to Gentiles, in Thessalonica, who are called "chosen", for they were partakers of the gift of the holy spirit, that not only the Jews received, but also the Gentiles,

For we know, brothers and sisters loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. You became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the Holy Spirit. And so you became a model to all the believers in Macedonia and Achaia.
(1 Thessalonians 1:4-7 [NIV])

 

[Rev20]

If the Israelites were chosen from before the foundation of the world, and we know that even the outcome of a roll of a dice is determined, why would you not think that the Gentiles are also chosen by God to come to salvation?

That is a hypothetical. The scripture states that God's chosen people are the faithful remnant of Israel. They are the ones who were given the covenants (old and new), they are the ones through whom all kindreds of the earth are blessed, and they are the ones who endured the wrath of God for their transgressions:

"Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." -- Acts 3:25-26 KJV

They are the only family on earth whom God foreknew:

"Hear this word that the Lord hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities." -- Amos 3:1-2 KJV


I know you sincerely desire to believe that you are something special. And you are special if you are born again by the Word of God. God has allowed the Gentiles who are born again to become fellow-heirs with his chosen people, the faithful remnant of the children of Israel.

But God's chosen people were, are, and always will be, the faithful remnant of the children of Israel. Those who were unfaithful were cast off (cut off) for their unbelief:

"For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people." -- Acts 3:22-23 KJV

Is the holy spirit not sent by God, which implies a choice of God was made, not a choice of man, whether he be Jew or Gentile? You are trying to refuse to understand the obvious, because you do not want to believe in the predestination and choice of God.

I most certainly believe in predestination and choice of God. He has told us, over and over again, that the faithful remnant of the children of Israel are his chosen people, his elect, and were those predestinated from before the foundation of the world.

It is easy to understand if you set your heart to believe the Word of God, rather than the doctrine and traditions of mere men. That you have refused to do, thus far.

This epistle of Paul is addressed to Gentiles, in Thessalonica, who are called "chosen", for they were partakers of the gift of the holy spirit, that not only the Jews received, but also the Gentiles,

For we know, brothers and sisters loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. You became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the Holy Spirit. And so you became a model to all the believers in Macedonia and Achaia.
(1 Thessalonians 1:4-7 [NIV])

Who was Paul's audience in Thessalonica? Did you never read this?

"For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost." -- 1Th 2:14-16 KJV

Forbidding Gentiles to speak to the Gentiles? Is that how you interpret that?

You do not read well. I exhort you to take a course or two (or three) in reading comprehension.

Rev

 

[christiang]

That is a hypothetical. The scripture states that God's chosen people are the faithful remnant of Israel. They are the ones who were given the covenants (old and new), they are the ones through whom all kindreds of the earth are blessed, and they are the ones who endured the wrath of God for their transgressions:

"Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." -- Acts 3:25-26 KJV

They are the only family on earth whom God foreknew:

"Hear this word that the Lord hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities." -- Amos 3:1-2 KJV


I know you sincerely desire to believe that you are something special. And you are special if you are born again by the Word of God. God has allowed the Gentiles who are born again to become fellow-heirs with his chosen people, the faithful remnant of the children of Israel.

But God's chosen people were, are, and always will be, the faithful remnant of the children of Israel. Those who were unfaithful were cast off (cut off) for their unbelief:

"For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people." -- Acts 3:22-23 KJV




I most certainly believe in predestination and choice of God. He has told us, over and over again, that the faithful remnant of the children of Israel are his chosen people, his elect, and were those predestinated from before the foundation of the world.

It is easy to understand if you set your heart to believe the Word of God, rather than the doctrine and traditions of mere men. That you have refused to do, thus far.




Who was Paul's audience in Thessalonica? Did you never read this?

"For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost." -- 1Th 2:14-16 KJV

Forbidding Gentiles to speak to the Gentiles? Is that how you interpret that?

You do not read well. I exhort you to take a course or two (or three) in reading comprehension.

Rev

How could "us" be the Gentiles "us" was speaking to? "Us" was Paul and whoever was preaching to the Gentiles, who the Jews were trying to forbid from preaching to the Gentiles. As such, the "you are chosen", stated in this epistle of Paul to the Gentile city of Thessalonica, is addressed to the Gentile believers in Thessalonica. Why you cannot accept that the Gentiles are also God's chosen people boggles my mind, as if it is so hard for this to be true, if God even chooses what the outcome of the roll of a dice will be. If even the most minor things in the world are determined by God, like the roll of a dice, or how many hairs will grow on your head, why is it so hard to believe that the salvation of anyone is also determined by God? Don't you understand? How much longer before you reach comprehension?

 

[Rev20]

How could "us" be the Gentiles "us" was speaking to? "Us" was Paul and whoever was preaching to the Gentiles, who the Jews were trying to forbid from preaching to the Gentiles. As such, the "you are chosen", stated in this epistle of Paul to the Gentile city of Thessalonica, is addressed to the Gentile believers in Thessalonica.

Those are your words, not scripture. There is no evidence Paul was writing to the Gentiles of Thessalonica. However, there is plenty of evidence Paul's letter was addressed to his fellow Jews. For example, this is the first mention of Paul in Thessalonica, when he addressed a synagogue of Jews for three sabbaths:

"Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ. And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few. But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people." -- Acts 17:1-5 KJV

So, what does Paul write in his first letter?

"For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost." -- 1Th 2:14-16 KJV

Who was suffering by the hands of their own countrymen? The Gentiles? Nonsense. Who was "forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved?"

That certainly does not sound like Paul is writing to the Gentiles, but rather to his fellow Jews -- the elect -- who were being persecuted by the Jewish leadership, and were forbidden to speak to the Gentiles by that same leadership. The Jewish leadership was given power by the Roman government to punish fellow Jews for violations of the Jewish law.

In this verse Paul also appears to be speaking to someone other than the Gentiles:

"That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:" -- 1Th 4:4-5 KJV

Those are the only two instances of the word "Gentile" in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians.

Again, there is no evidence that any Gentile was "chosen" for anything, except in the minds of those who think more highly of themselves than they should.

Why you cannot accept that the Gentiles are also God's chosen people boggles my mind, as if it is so hard for this to be true, if God even chooses what the outcome of the roll of a dice will be. If even the most minor things in the world are determined by God, like the roll of a dice, or how many hairs will grow on your head, why is it so hard to believe that the salvation of anyone is also determined by God? Don't you understand? How much longer before you reach comprehension?

Philosophical gibberish. If you had any real evidence that the Gentiles were chosen for anything, you would have presented it by now.

Rev

 

[Richard_oti]

How can you have new moons in a new creation where there is no moon

You better take it up with Isaiah.

BTW: Revelation only says the city has no need of their light, it doesn't say that they do not exist. And given that earth is a planet, it kinda needs a sun and a moon. Besides, shall the earth only be inhabited in the city? Shall the other side of the planet be nothingness and in darkness?

 

[Richard_oti]

Because you don't like that I speak of mere separation of milk and cheese? If I am berated for obedience, and called arrogant and proud, then I will gladly be arrogant and proud in my obedience of God. People like you love to find fault and grumble against those who are blameless, such is the way of those who are perishing against those who are not.

What state are you from ...

The state of delusion.

Enjoy your delusion.

BTW: You never answered, do I have your permission to C&P your studies and use them here?

 

[amadeus]

I do not call brothers idiots out of hate, which is what that saying is in the context of, murder of the heart, which is hate. I say it out of admonishment, that you may repent. For even Paul called men fools, out of admonishment, not hatred.

If God believes your heart is right on it? But in any case remember what Jesus said about idle words and be careful for yourself.

 

[amadeus]

Read this study Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God . Scriptures are there.

Thanks for the invitation, but I looked and it is too long for me. I asked a few questions and you give me your whole theology. There are too many whole theologies for me to read them all in the remainder of my natural life. I spend my time reading and studying scripture and some time discussing here. May God richly bless you as you walk with Him.

 

[KBCid]

Paul stated observance of the Sabbath doesn't matter. If you don't like it, take it up with him,
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come;the reality, however, is found in Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17 [NIV])

ummm..... you do know that that there are a number of Sabbath days right? and not just the one that God made HOLY from the beginning of the creation in which they honored its HOLINESS by resting on it.
It might also be relevant that the meaning of the verse you quote is in relation to how you honor those specific days in question. When Christ was accused of breaking the Sabbath 'TRADITION' the fact is that a number of 'anyones' were judging him for how he honored the Sabbath day.... the seventh day of the week .... made HOLY from the beginning of the creation.... and in his reply we see several points being made;
1)That in this place is one greater than the temple
2)For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
3) it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days

So what can be learned from our example (Christ)?
We learn that Christ is the one who is greater than the temple itself and that since he is the Son of man aka God's Son he is also the authority for what is really allowed to be done on a HOLY day and it is his determination that it is lawful to do good on such days....
And note; there was not even one teeny little hint that his Fathers HOLY day was ever to be changed from the seventh day of the week.
So when Paul is telling the new converts not to let anyone judge them about the holy days it is because there will be Pharisees around every corner who have an entire book of man made laws that they will try and judge them by....
Paul's words were not an attempt to throw the baby out with the bathwater but rather to let the converts be confident in doing what God had intended should be done on those days.

But..... the wolves came in and took the pure intent of the word and twisted it into "hey let's just do what is we think is right in our own eyes..... and totally ignore the God who made both them and the times and laws for his purposes.

 

[bbyrd009]

BTW: You never answered, do I have your permission to C&P your studies and use them here?

it is in the public domain now, you do not need this

 

[bbyrd009]

For even Paul called men fools

so you say, yes, but it is not true

"Jesus called Pharisees blahblahblagh"
again, that is your perception, but a closer reading reveals the truth, that being that the Pharisees were a huge sect, and Christ spoke generally, not specifically, to the point that they even had to "discern that Jesus was talking about them." Iow no one was being singled out specifically, as you have done.

Paul stated observance of the Sabbath doesn't matter.

are you sure? Is there no other valid perspective on that but your own?
Then why is Sabbath to be kept in the New Jerusalem, do you think?
did Paul observe the sabbath? - Google Search

obviously you are a total idiot, but i say this in all love, ok.
of course it is different when you do it, i guess, right

 

[christiang]

ummm..... you do know that that there are a number of Sabbath days right? and not just the one that God made HOLY from the beginning of the creation in which they honored its HOLINESS by resting on it.
It might also be relevant that the meaning of the verse you quote is in relation to how you honor those specific days in question. When Christ was accused of breaking the Sabbath 'TRADITION' the fact is that a number of 'anyones' were judging him for how he honored the Sabbath day.... the seventh day of the week .... made HOLY from the beginning of the creation.... and in his reply we see several points being made;
1)That in this place is one greater than the temple
2)For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
3) it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days

So what can be learned from our example (Christ)?
We learn that Christ is the one who is greater than the temple itself and that since he is the Son of man aka God's Son he is also the authority for what is really allowed to be done on a HOLY day and it is his determination that it is lawful to do good on such days....
And note; there was not even one teeny little hint that his Fathers HOLY day was ever to be changed from the seventh day of the week.
So when Paul is telling the new converts not to let anyone judge them about the holy days it is because there will be Pharisees around every corner who have an entire book of man made laws that they will try and judge them by....
Paul's words were not an attempt to throw the baby out with the bathwater but rather to let the converts be confident in doing what God had intended should be done on those days.

But..... the wolves came in and took the pure intent of the word and twisted it into "hey let's just do what is we think is right in our own eyes..... and totally ignore the God who made both them and the times and laws for his purposes.

If you want to observe the Sabbath, then do so on Saturday. And you are forbidden to work as commanded by the Law. You cannot drive your car, you cannot pump gas in your car, you cannot turn on lights in your house, you cannot go grocery shopping. You want to come under the command of the Sabbath? Then obey it as commanded.

 

[christiang]

Thanks for the invitation, but I looked and it is too long for me. I asked a few questions and you give me your whole theology. There are too many whole theologies for me to read them all in the remainder of my natural life. I spend my time reading and studying scripture and some time discussing here. May God richly bless you as you walk with Him.

If you guys can't even read a short study, how do you even go about reading your bibles, which is an entire book of many books?

 

[christiang]

What state are you from ...

The state of delusion.

Enjoy your delusion.

BTW: You never answered, do I have your permission to C&P your studies and use them here?

Whatever. I am done contending with you trying to get you to understand the truth. Ignore.

 

[bbyrd009]

If you guys can't even read a short study, how do you even go about reading your bibles, which is an entire book of many books?

yes, what possible difference could there be, lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Ignore.

i guess he was already doing that!

 

[bbyrd009]

behold, the danger of including yourself in "we."

 

[bbyrd009]

Whatever. I am done contending with you trying to get you to understand the truth. Ignore.

"Lord, i thank you that i am not like other men..."

 

[christiang]

yes, what possible difference could there be, lol

75% of the content of my studies is quoted scripture. Very few words of mine. This is deliberate, because I want people like you to know that what I am conveying is scripture, not my own teachings. But still, you people are stubborn.