It is not in the bible.....sola scripture

[OzSpen]

Nice try but loaded with RCC definitions and presuppositions. I don't have the time or energy to comment on or refute what you've written.
Oz

This won't take long. Go to any Bible search engine, biblegateway has a good one. Pick your favorite translation. Search for "word of God". You will get 180-200 results. Find one instance where "word of God" means the written word alone. I couldn't find any. Maybe you can.[/QUOTE]

Where in the Bible do you find the language 'Trinity'? Do you believe in the Trinity or not?

Where is the word, 'Bible', in the Bible. You obviously believe in the Bible because you recommended, 'Go to any Bible search engine', but I don't know of any place in an English Bible where the word 'Bible' is used.

Could the following verses refer to the written Word of God in the Bible?

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12 | NIV |

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.2 Timothy 3:16-17 | NIV |

Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path.
Psalm 119:105 | NIV

Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
James 1:22 | NIV |

How can a young person stay on the path of purity? By living according to your word.
Psalm 119:9 | NIV |

The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God endures forever.
Isaiah 40:8 | NIV |

He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”
Luke 11:28 | NIV |

As for God, his way is perfect: The Lord’s word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him.
Psalm 18:30 | NIV |

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matthew 7:24 | NIV |

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Matthew 24:35 | NIV |

Do everything without grumbling or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation. Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky as you hold firmly to the word of life.
Philippians 2:14-16a | NIV |

The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple.
Psalm 119:130 | NIV |

Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
Matthew 4:4 | NIV |

For the word of the Lord is right and true; he is faithful in all he does.
Psalm 33:4 | NIV |

Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.
John 7:38 | NIV |

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Yet here we have men deceiving people using the bible, it is by the Spirit we judge all things, God does not have to agree with the bible, no matter what men "demand" of Him.

How can God not agree with the Bible when 'All Scripture is God-breathed' (2 Tim 3:16 NIV)?

Are you on the wrong biblical page?

Oz

 

[mjrhealth]

How can God not agree with the Bible when 'All Scripture is God-breathed' (2 Tim 3:16 NIV)?

Are you on the wrong biblical page?

Oz

No I just believe God, dont you??. If God told you something that disagreed with your understanding of something that was in the bible , would you tell him He is wrong??

It is by teh Spirit we judge all things, it is by teh Spirit we are supposed to walk, but see learned men have a problem with that.

1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence

1Co_1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

like so many just arguing over teh bible to which of you is the greatest.

A vessel filled od mud needs to be emptied and cleaned before it can be willed with wine, but so many refuse to be emptied.

 

[OzSpen]

No I just believe God, dont you??. If God told you something that disagreed with your understanding of something that was in the bible , would you tell him He is wrong??

It is by teh Spirit we judge all things, it is by teh Spirit we are supposed to walk, but see learned men have a problem with that.

1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence

1Co_1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

like so many just arguing over teh bible to which of you is the greatest.

A vessel filled od mud needs to be emptied and cleaned before it can be willed with wine, but so many refuse to be emptied.

mjr,

I also believe God, and since ALL Scripture is breathed out by God (2 Tim 3:16 NIV), ALL of Scripture is from God.

You say: 'It is by teh (sic) Spirit we judge all things'. When I hear 5 different people talking on the same topic or from the same Scripture and they come up with 3 different interpretations, I don't know which 'Spirit' is speaking these contradictions.

Unless you have some standard to judge what is given to you by the Spirit, we are in the land of chaos. That's why you and I need the God-breathed parameters provided by Scripture.

Oz

 

[epostle1]

This won't take long. Go to any Bible search engine, biblegateway has a good one. Pick your favorite translation. Search for "word of God". You will get 180-200 results. Find one instance where "word of God" means the written word alone. I couldn't find any. Maybe you can.

Where in the Bible do you find the language 'Trinity'? Do you believe in the Trinity or not?

The Trinity is taught in the Bible, the Bible separate from Tradition and the Teaching Authority is nowhere to be found. You have to prove Tradition and Magisterium is not needed. But "Trinity" is evading the point. "Word of God" appears around 200 times and none of it's usage means the written word alone. It's primarily if not totally the spoken word of God which blows sola scriptura out of the water. "Trinity" is a red herring to the discussion.

Where is the word, 'Bible', in the Bible. You obviously believe in the Bible because you recommended, 'Go to any Bible search engine', but I don't know of any place in an English Bible where the word 'Bible' is used.

That has nothing to do with my challenge.

Could the following verses refer to the written Word of God in the Bible?
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12 | NIV |

It says "the word of God is alive and active...a book cannot do those things. And it doesn't say "the written word of God alone".

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.2 Timothy 3:16-17 | NIV |

How many times do I have to go over this?

Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path.
Psalm 119:105 | NIV

This says nothing about a written word alone is a lamp for my feet.

Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
James 1:22 | NIV |

Doing is not reading. Mere listening is not reading either. At this point in history when James was writing, there were no Bibles.

How can a young person stay on the path of purity? By living according to your word.
Psalm 119:9 | NIV |

It doesn't say "By living according to your written word alone."

The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God endures forever.
Isaiah 40:8 | NIV |

It doesn't say "but the written word alone of our God endures forever"

He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”
Luke 11:28 | NIV |

It says HEAR, it doesn't say READ. 95+% of the Christian population could not read anyway. That's why they made statues and paintings in the 1st century; they were teaching tools.

As for God, his way is perfect: The Lord’s word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him.
Psalm 18:30 | NIV |

The Bible is written in human language and they all have limitations. There is no such thing as a divine human language. Greek is not a divine language. The word that is flawless is not confined to the written word alone. This is partly why SS denigrates the Bible.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matthew 7:24 | NIV |

It says HEARS, it does not say READ.

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Matthew 24:35 | NIV |

It doesn't say Bibles will never pass away.

Do everything without grumbling or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation. Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky as you hold firmly to the word of life.
Philippians 2:14-16a | NIV |

It doesn't say "hold firmly to the written word of life alone."

The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple.
Psalm 119:130 | NIV |

Does "unfolding" mean opening pages?

Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
Matthew 4:4 | NIV |

Jesus was quoting Deuteronomy 8:3, which is not every word of the New Testament. In the Temptation scenario, it was satan using Bible alone theology. Matthew 4:6
Whenever Jesus says "it is written", He is TEACHING scripture, not APPEALING to it.

For the word of the Lord is right and true; he is faithful in all he does.
Psalm 33:4 | NIV |

That is certainly true, but it doesn't say "For the written word alone of the Lord is right and true..."

Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.
John 7:38 | NIV |

"rivers of living water will flow from within them" comes from believing in Him, not from a book that would not exist for 350 years.

How can God not agree with the Bible when 'All Scripture is God-breathed' (2 Tim 3:16 NIV)?

Are you on the wrong biblical page?

Oz

How many times do I have to go over this?[/quote]

 

[epostle1]

Scripture is materially sufficient, formal sufficiency is a 16th century invention.

1) The Greek word ophelimos ("profitable") used in verse 16 means "useful" not "sufficient." An example of this difference would be to say that water is useful for our existence – even necessary – but it is not sufficient; that is, it is not the only thing we need to survive. We also need food, clothing, shelter, etc. Likewise, Scripture is useful in the life of the believer, but it was never meant to be the only source of Christian teaching, the only thing needed for believers.

2) The Greek word pasa, which is often rendered as "all," actually means "every," and it has the sense of referring to each and every one of the class denoted by the noun connected with it. (2) In other words, the Greek reads in a way which indicates that each and every "Scripture" is profitable. If the doctrine of Sola Scriptura were true, then based on Greek verse 16, each and every book of the Bible could stand on its own as the sole rule of faith, a position which is obviously absurd.

3) The "Scripture" that St. Paul is referring to here is the Old Testament, a fact which is made plain by his reference to the Scripture’s being known by Timothy from "infancy" (verse 15). The New Testament as we know it did not yet exist, or at best it was incomplete, so it simply could not have included in St. Paul’s understanding of what was meant by the term "scripture." If we take St. Paul’s words at face value, Sola Scriptura would therefore mean that the Old Testament is the Christian’s sole rule of faith. This is a premise that all Christians would reject.

Protestants may respond to this issue by arguing that St. Paul is not here discussing the canon of the Bible (the authoritative list of which books are included in the Bible), but rather the nature of Scripture. While there is some validity to this assertion, the issue of canon is also relevant here, for the following reason: Before we can talk about the nature of Scripture as being theopneustos or "inspired" (literally, "God-breathed"), it is imperative that we identify with certainty those books we mean when we say "Scripture"; otherwise, the wrong writings may be labeled as "inspired."

St. Paul’s words here obviously took on a new dimension when the New Testament was completed, as Christians eventually considered it, too, to be "Scripture." It can be argued, then, that the Biblical canon is also the issue here, as St. Paul – writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit – emphasizes the fact that all (and not just some) Scripture is inspired. The question that begs to be asked, however, is this: "How can we be sure we have all the correct writings?" obviously, we can only know the answer if we know what the canon of the Bible is. Such a question poses a problem for the Protestant, but not for the Catholic, as the latter has an infallible authority to answer it.

4) The Greek word artios, here translated "perfect," may at first glance make it seem that the Scriptures are indeed all that is needed. "After all," one may ask, "if the Scriptures make the man of God perfect, what else could be needed? Doesn’t the very word ‘perfect’ imply that nothing is lacking?"

Well, the difficulty with such an interpretation is that the text here does not say that it is solely by means of the Scriptures that the man of God is made "perfect." The text – if anything – indicates precisely the opposite to be true, namely, that the Scriptures operate in conjunction with other things. Notice that it is not just anyone who is made perfect, but rather the "man of God" – which means a minister of Christ (cf. 1 Tim. 6:11), a clergyman. The fact that this individual is a minister of Christ presupposes that he has already had training and teaching which prepared him to assume his office. This being the case, the Scriptures would be merely one item in a series of items which make this man of God "perfect." The Scriptures may complete his list of necessary items or they may be one prominent item on the list, but surely they are not the only item on his list nor intended to be all that he needs.

By way of analogy, consider a medical doctor. In this context we might say something like, "The Physician’s Desk Reference [a standard medical reference book] makes our General Practitioner perfect, so that he may be ready to treat any medical situation." Obviously such a statement does not mean that all a doctor needs is his PDR. It is neither the last item on his list or just one prominent item. The doctor also needs his stethoscope, his blood pressure gauge, his training, etc. These other items are presupposed by the fact that we are talking about a doctor rather than a non-medical person. So it would be incorrect to assume that if the PDR makes the doctor "perfect," it is the only thing which makes him so.
Twenty One Reasons to Reject Sola Scriptura

 

[mjrhealth]

mjr,

I also believe God, and since ALL Scripture is breathed out by God (2 Tim 3:16 NIV), ALL of Scripture is from God.

You say: 'It is by teh (sic) Spirit we judge all things'. When I hear 5 different people talking on the same topic or from the same Scripture and they come up with 3 different interpretations, I don't know which 'Spirit' is speaking these contradictions.

Unless you have some standard to judge what is given to you by the Spirit, we are in the land of chaos. That's why you and I need the God-breathed parameters provided by Scripture.

Oz

Well teh definition of scripture, is any book that is from God, so yhat makes every religious book from all religions scripture, so if I quote the Koran will you listen to me???

Oh and which part of teh bible is scripture, since that text was referring to the OT not teh NT. But than who needs God, christians have a book, that they fight, argue over, as if was God Himself, never seeking Christ for His truth just as it says.

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

and you wont go to Him, because men have made teh bible greater than God, an idol, BOL quotes it all the time, killing thousands with the very words you say are from God. Gods words are life, teh bible has no life in it, so therefore cannot be Gods word. And you like many will never take this to God, because you carry Him around in your pocket, my God is far bigger than that, there is not enough space in this universe to put all the wisdom that is God, even teh bible says there is not w\enough books to contain all the works that Jesus did, why is he so belittled by so many.

 

[OzSpen]

At this point in history when James was writing, there were no Bibles.

False! Haven't you heard of the Old Testament that was available when James was writing?

 

[OzSpen]

Well teh definition of scripture, is any book that is from God, so yhat makes every religious book from all religions scripture, so if I quote the Koran will you listen to me???

Oh and which part of teh bible is scripture, since that text was referring to the OT not teh NT. But than who needs God, christians have a book, that they fight, argue over, as if was God Himself, never seeking Christ for His truth just as it says.

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

and you wont go to Him, because men have made teh bible greater than God, an idol, BOL quotes it all the time, killing thousands with the very words you say are from God. Gods words are life, teh bible has no life in it, so therefore cannot be Gods word. And you like many will never take this to God, because you carry Him around in your pocket, my God is far bigger than that, there is not enough space in this universe to put all the wisdom that is God, even teh bible says there is not w\enough books to contain all the works that Jesus did, why is he so belittled by so many.

By the way, Peter regarded Paul's writings as Scripture.

15Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction (2 Peter 3:15-16 NIV).​

Oz

 

[mjrhealth]

Hm well you can have that argument with the devil if you like, or take it up with BOL who continues to kill people with "Gods Word".

1Co_14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

so many confused christians reading the bible...

 

[OzSpen]

Hm well you can have that argument with the devil if you like, or take it up with BOL who continues to kill people with "Gods Word".

1Co_14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

so many confused christians reading the bible...

Your cherry picking 1 Cor 14:33 is inappropriate as that verse does not apply to general confusion and the need for peace. It applies to the gifts of the Spirit that were not being practised in an orderly way at Corinth.

You have reefed a verse right out of context.

Oz

 

[mjrhealth]

Your cherry picking 1 Cor 14:33 is inappropriate as that verse does not apply to general confusion and the need for peace. It applies to the gifts of the Spirit that were not being practised in an orderly way at Corinth.

You have reefed a verse right out of context.

Oz

Yet christians are still running around confused, because they would rather read a book than spend time with the Lord, and so here they are picking and fighting and arguing over "who is right", "which is the greatest" and will never go to the one who is the truth, Jesus the bread of life so they will always be hungry, the foolish virgins with empty lamps.

 

[mjrhealth]

Your cherry picking 1 Cor 14:33 is inappropriate as that verse does not apply to general confusion and the need for peace. It applies to the gifts of the Spirit that were not being practised in an orderly way at Corinth.

Cherry pick I dont own a cherry tree,

 

[OzSpen]

Yet christians are still running around confused, because they would rather read a book than spend time with the Lord, and so here they are picking and fighting and arguing over "who is right", "which is the greatest" and will never go to the one who is the truth, Jesus the bread of life so they will always be hungry, the foolish virgins with empty lamps.

You didn't deal with the issue I raised with you, so your response is a red herring fallacy - erroneous reasoning!

 

[epostle1]

You didn't deal with the issue I raised with you, so your response is a red herring fallacy - erroneous reasoning!

I dealt with a long list of your feeble attempt trying to prove "word of God" meant the written word alone. You failed.

False! Haven't you heard of the Old Testament that was available when James was writing?

False! The Old Testament alone is not the sole rule of faith, and no SS says otherwise.

I've been over this 3-4 times.

By the way, Peter regarded Paul's writings as Scripture.

15Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction (2 Peter 3:15-16 NIV).​

So what. The Church regarded the whole NT as scripture in 397 AD. Peter says you need an authority for hard to understand scriptures that the reformers claimed they didn't need. The Catholic Church taught the written word to be the inspired word of God centuries before you guys showed up, just not separate from the Tradition that it flowed from. That is your error.

I already explained the difference between material and formal sufficiency of scripture but again, you refuse to learn it. In order to assert formal sufficiency, you have to prove that Tradition and the Magisterium are not needed. This is absurd because without them there would be no scriptures. Peter affirming Paul proves Paul's writing is scripture, it does not prove Paul's one or two letters that Peter is refering to is all we need.

Your cherry picking 1 Cor 14:33 is inappropriate as that verse does not apply to general confusion and the need for peace. It applies to the gifts of the Spirit that were not being practised in an orderly way at Corinth.

You have reefed a verse right out of context.

Oz

I checked back 2 pages and I didn't use that verse. Scrolling all over 1330 posts trying to find something you claim I said ain't gonna happen. Use the quote.

You didn't deal with the issue I raised with you, so your response is a red herring fallacy - erroneous reasoning!

Why don't you quote the issue I didn't deal with instead of risking a false accusation? You are the one that gave me along list of things to deal with, and I did. You haven't dealt with my multitude of replies because "word of God" does not mean the written word alone. It's mostly oral, it can be both, but not "alone".

 

[mjrhealth]

You didn't deal with the issue I raised with you, so your response is a red herring fallacy - erroneous reasoning!

ye thats it, all the same with the smart ones, red herring, fallacies. good with big works to shout everyone down. you seem to know more about fishing and farming than God if you throw that strawman into the mix.
What did Saul think of it all "after" he discovered Jesus.

Php_3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

but learned men have great difficulty with God, because they are unwilling to humble themselves before God and say, "God i know nothing teach me".

You cant fill a vessel that is already fill.

 

[Marymog]

False! Haven't you heard of the Old Testament that was available when James was writing?

Hi Oz,

What is this "Old Testament that was available when James was writing"? Are you speaking of the Jewish writings (i.e. Torah) that Jesus and the Apostles would have quoted from or read (which eventually we Christians called the Old testament)?

Mary

 

[OzSpen]

Hi Oz,

What is this "Old Testament that was available when James was writing"? Are you speaking of the Jewish writings (i.e. Torah) that Jesus and the Apostles would have quoted from or read (which eventually we Christians called the Old testament)?

Mary

G'day Mary,

James 1:1 (NIV) states, 'James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations'.

For these 12 Jewish tribes, which was the 'all Scripture' (2 Tim 3:16) that they read?

Oz

 

[amadeus]

ye thats it, all the same with the smart ones, red herring, fallacies. good with big works to shout everyone down. you seem to know more about fishing and farming than God if you throw that strawman into the mix.
What did Saul think of it all "after" he discovered Jesus.

Php_3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

but learned men have great difficulty with God, because they are unwilling to humble themselves before God and say, "God i know nothing teach me".

You cant fill a vessel that is already fill.

Even so!
"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:3

The poor in spirit is not speaking of those without any or much of monetary value. It goes along rather with what Jesus said elsewhere:

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Matt 19:23-24

The "riches" which make it difficult to enter into the kingdom are not only material possessions [although those may be included], but people get rich in their own spirit because of their knowledge, even knowledge of the Bible. This was the problem that Saul/Paul had before he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Paul was very rich in his own biblical knowledge. He had sat learning at the feet of Gamaliel a very highly respected jewish teacher at the time. For all of this Paul had nothing that was any good because he did not know God until he met Jesus.

 

[Marymog]

G'day Mary,

James 1:1 (NIV) states, 'James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations'.
For these 12 Jewish tribes, which was the 'all Scripture' (2 Tim 3:16) that they read?
Oz

G'day Oz,

Are you speaking of the Jewish writings (i.e. Torah) that Jesus and the Apostles would have quoted from or read (which eventually we Christians called the Old testament)?

Mary