Who are the guests?

[bbyrd009]

absent from the body is present with the Lord

now i guess "chastising" is not what is perceived in this chapter, but note how the description of the body here just really doesn't...line up with the perspective of most ppl in church today? It describes some ppl, yes, but loosely speaking very few. The MSG is quoted below for an insight into this, seems to me a better interpretation in this case also tho
2 Corinthians 5 - MSG Bible - Bible Study Tools

9 But neither exile nor homecoming is the main thing. Cheerfully pleasing God is the main thing, and that's what we aim to do, regardless of our conditions.

so iow is that what "we" really aim to do? some other vv in this chapter, many of them, could be referred to to illuminate this "chastisement," or rather "contrast," between the ideal and what we actually manifest IRL iow--except to someone convinced that they are already saved, of course, even though they do not really manifest Paul's ideals here. Know any? lol, my hand is up

 

[bbyrd009]

8 Do you suppose a few ruts in the road or rocks in the path are going to stop us? When the time comes, we'll be plenty ready to exchange exile for homecoming.

imo this does not go far enough even; Paul was not saying that this is true, so much as speaking to the perspectives of the listeners, see, (and this translator just translated from that perspective, as might be witnessed in his perspective at rapture also, which he also translated in to the MSG. He gets "Anarchy" wrong to, defines it as Chaos, but nevermind lol)

 

[bbyrd009]

may be

 

[VictoryinJesus]

now i guess "chastising" is not what is perceived in this chapter, but note how the description of the body here just really doesn't...line up with the perspective of most ppl in church today? It describes some ppl, yes, but loosely speaking very few. The MSG is quoted below for an insight into this, seems to me a better interpretation in this case also tho
2 Corinthians 5 - MSG Bible - Bible Study Tools

9 But neither exile nor homecoming is the main thing. Cheerfully pleasing God is the main thing, and that's what we aim to do, regardless of our conditions.

so iow is that what "we" really aim to do? some other vv in this chapter, many of them, could be referred to to illuminate this "chastisement," or rather "contrast," between the ideal and what we actually manifest IRL iow--except to someone convinced that they are already saved, of course, even though they do not really manifest Paul's ideals here. Know any? lol, my hand is up

2 Corinthians 5 also has thrown me as there is more there. I've never read that version.

Something that becomes apparent:

John 12:24-26 KJV
[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. [25] He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. [26] If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

It is wheat, whether it dies or not. It doesn't bear fruit but it is still wheat. Yes? No?

 

[bbyrd009]

2 Corinthians 5 also has thrown me as there is more there.

imo bc Paul is speaking to a certain perspective, and playing with the...playing on the def of "the body," which has more than one def, right.

 

[bbyrd009]

Something that becomes apparent:

John 12:24-26 KJV
[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. [25] He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

yes, it is actually being directly addressed here, dialecticism, but when we read "absent from the body is present with the Lord," we do not understand that there is more than one perspective there as well, as "i want eternal life, so i have to die" suggests, as a way of thinking. even though they are diff subjects, granted.

 

[bbyrd009]

arg, another way to put that is, if you want eternal life, you have to die, before what Paul is interpreted as saying at "absent from the body is present" suggests iow; you have to die sooner than that!

as vv14-15 make clear. lol, clear, as if.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You must be referring to the parable of the wedding.

It's just a parable, an example, a word picture. Jesus says it is only "like" a marriage. The only answer would be the angels.

I am not sure if anyone has already asked but how can the guest be angels?

Matthew 22:11-13 KJV
[11] And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: [12] And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. [13] Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

arg, another way to put that is, if you want eternal life, you have to die, before what Paul is interpreted as saying at "absent from the body is present" suggests iow; you have to die sooner than that!

as vv14-15 make clear. lol, clear, as if.

How do you know when you are dead?

 

[bbyrd009]

It is wheat, whether it dies or not. It doesn't bear fruit but it is still wheat. Yes? No?

um, imo wheat that does not bear fruit is tares, which if you are a field, you got both i guess. Not you, me, sorry

 

[bbyrd009]

How do you know when you are dead?

awesome thread subject, i got about a page or so i could reply there, i'll let you start it if you like, pls send a link here though ty.
my first...no, better make that my last reply will be "when you realize that you are trying to get the 'self' that is called to die into a place that does not exist, at least in the manner that you currently believe," but obv that needs some work lol

 

[VictoryinJesus]

um, imo wheat that does not bear fruit is tares, which if you are a field, you got both i guess

I will have ponder that but I would say wheat is and can never be a weed(a tare). Spirit quenched and thereby the wheat unfruitful. No fruit of the Spirit. I don't know. I will consider it.

 

[bbyrd009]

I will have ponder that but I would say wheat is and can never be a weed(a tare).

ok, so i agree, but nonetheless still maintain that we have both.

and i dislike tares as weeds, bc tares are not weeds wadr, they are false wheat

and they are even still sold, today, for a high

 

[bbyrd009]

Spirit quenched and thereby the wheat unfruitful. No fruit of the Spirit. I don't know. I will consider it.

consider that we are "two men in a bed," and deciding whether you are either all bad or all good, A or notA, no other option possible, will not produce any meaningful answer imo. you will just get a tare that way iow

 

[VictoryinJesus]

awesome thread subject, i got about a page or so i could reply there, i'll let you start it if you like, pls send a link here though ty.
my first...no, better make that my last reply will be "when you realize that you are trying to get the 'self' that is called to die into a place that does not exist, at least in the manner that you currently believe," but obv that needs some work lol

You can start it. It would be food to read what others input since it is an important topic and an honest one. I'm not sure the response you will get: no one wants to hear they must die.

 

[bbyrd009]

You can start it. It would be food to read what others input since it is an important topic and an honest one. I'm not sure the response you will get: no one wants to hear they must die.

ha, no kidding lol. i better eat breakfast before i post that, and think about it lol, 3 oclock dang!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

ha, no kidding lol. i better eat breakfast before i post that, and think about it lol, 3 oclock dang!

Ok. Will watch for it. It is a serious question. Obviously I am not dead to self yet. I stay in His word but maybe I am missing it. I just realized recently that it is not all about me. Imagine the feeling of deception. Someone close is going through the same thing and where I am depressed, they are angry. We are told that once we accept Jesus into our heart He is going to make all our dreams come true. It is the opposite. More like a fire. When is the fire quenched? I don't understand the dying and then, what comes after. Once you see this world for what it is? What motivates you to get out of bed? When there is no more "me" how do you live? Where's the joy, peace, hope? ...the love? I am sorry. But I am being honest.

Returning to OP; I prefer not to be a guest. Do I have any say in it, though?

 

[bbyrd009]

How do you know when you are dead?

ha, look at the quagmire we got here though, perceiving "the dead" as now a good thing to be, lol. As an example, i'll use @amadeus again, since he speaks dialectically, and might be perceived as one of "the dead, who know nothing!"

tell me A, what do you know? lol
been accused of "not knowing anything" lately? lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Obviously I am not dead to self yet. I stay in His word but maybe I am missing it.

if the first has become obvious to you, then i would say that the second is becoming less true as we speak!

I just realized recently that it is not all about me. Imagine the feeling of deception. Someone close is going through the same thing and where I am depressed, they are angry. We are told that once we accept Jesus into our heart He is going to make all our dreams come true. It is the opposite. More like a fire. When is the fire quenched? I don't understand the dying, and then

awesome stuff, here

what comes after.

present with the Lord is what comes after.

Once you see this world for what it is? What motivates you to get out of bed?

seeing the world how it really is. not seeing the world how it appears to be

 

[bbyrd009]

When there is no more "me" how do you live?

that is when you start living tho...when you lay that burden down. Sorry, useless answer, um. hmm. prolly can't do any better there i guess

Where's the joy, peace, hope? ...the love?

on the other side. crap, @amadeus could prolly help here, i'm too far out right now lol