Co- Redemptrix

[Stranger]

Ummmm, that's not true.

John 19:26-27
When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son. Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.”

Virtually EVERY single Early Church Father confirmed their understanding of this passage was that John represented ALL of mankind.

If you understand that Mary gave birth to Jesus, the Head of the Body, then you have to understand that she gave birth to the entire Body since a body can’t be separated. So, she gave birth to the members as well. She gave physical birth to Jesus, and made it possible for ALL us to receive spiritual life through Him.

So Mary's mother who gave birth to her must also have given birth to the entire Body of Christ? And so all the way back to Eve. Every mother in line with Mary giving birth to the Body of Christ? Does that make every mother exempt from original sin?

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

there is some truth on both sides - our first Pope Peter, at 1Peter3:15 = be prepared to give an answer, advised this but neither I nor most Catholics have been prepared by the Church but in the main have had to prepare ourselves - btw no two churches or priests even give the same homilies or the best and only teaching - twinc

Yup - and I've had BOTH kinds of priests at my local parish. Some were good teachers and others were a little bit lacking. It is up to the INDIVIDUAL to take what they've learned and enrich their understanding with the help of the Holy Spirit.

There are MORE than enough Catholic Bibles, books, articles, speakers, recordings, Bible studies, online resources ect. to never have an excuse.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So Mary's mother who gave birth to her must also have given birth to the entire Body of Christ? And so all the way back to Eve. Every mother in line with Mary giving birth to the Body of Christ? Does that make every mother exempt from original sin?

Stranger

WRONG.

Mary was impregnated by GOD - her mother was impregnated by a man.
Mary gave birth to the HEAD of the Body of Christ. St. Anne didn't . . .

In Acts 9:4-5 - Jesus compares His very SELF to the Body, His Church.

 

[GodsGrace]

First of all - stop lying.

I never use the word "LIAR" about anybody here. That is a lie of YOUR creation.

Secondly - I already addressed the distribution of the Eucharist to remarried people. I see it ALL the time and it is nothing new.
Not sure why you think this is a "new" practice.

Finally - YOUR accusation and that of your ignorant friend Rollo was that Catholics WORSHIP Mary. You guys didn't say that they "appeared" to be worshiping her. Now, you're changing your tune by saying, "It does seem to be worship."

Make up your mind - you're not a very good anti-Catholic . . .

Oh boy.
Remarrieds are committing adultery and should not be receiving communion, at least not until 2016 when Francis changed everything.

I really have no further desire to speak with you.

 

[Stranger]

Wrong, Stranger.

I haven't called anybody a "Liar." That, in itself is a lie.
I've merely pointed out their lies.

Actually - according to Scripture, I'm telling the truth (Luke 1:28).
Mary is the ONLY person in ALL of Scripture to receive the title of "Kecharitomene." This title indicates that she was sinless.

The Greek word is Kecharitomene is the perfect passive participle, indicates a completed action with permanent result. It translates, “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.” It is used as a title – a name.

The Angel didn’t say, “Hail Mary, full of grace.” He said, "Hail, Kecharitomene."

See post #363 and 368 and 370. You're playing with words. You can't say someone is guilty of a lie and not call them a liar. You do with the English as you try and do with the Greek.

Nothing in (Luke 1:28) indicates Mary was without sin. That she was 'highly favoured' of course. Not sinless.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

WRONG.

Mary was impregnated by GOD - her mother was impregnated by a man.
Mary gave birth to the HEAD of the Body of Christ. St. Anne didn't . . .

In Acts 9:4-5 - Jesus compares His very SELF to the Body, His Church.

Yes, Mary was impregnated by God, but her mother was not impregnated by God with Mary.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

Let's address your blatant LIE first.

The Church has never strayed away from the teaching on Original Sin - NOR has it strayed from its teaching on Infant Baptism, and it never will. You may LIVE in Italy - but you're about as out-of-touch with the Church as a person can be . . .

Original Sin is a Scriptural dogma and a condition that we are ALL born into. The only exceptions were Adam & Eve, Jesus and Mary.
Because of it, we all suffer the condition of concupiscence, which is the proclivity towards sin.

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1250 Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called.50 The sheer gratuitousness of the grace of salvation is particularly manifest in infant Baptism. The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they NOT to confer Baptism shortly after birth.51

1251 Christian parents will recognize that this practice also accords with their role as nurturers of the life that God has entrusted to them.52

1252 The practice of infant Baptism is an immemorial tradition of the Church. There is explicit testimony to this practice from the second century on, and it is quite possible that, from the beginning of the apostolic preaching, when whole "households" received baptism, infants may also have been baptized.53

We are affected by Adam's sin.
God does NOT impute others' sins to us.
We are each individually responsible ONLY for our own sin.
I will not waste time with scripture.
This is for those reading along - I am no longer posting for YOU.

Romans 4:8 is an example.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ummmm, that's not true.

John 19:26-27
When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son. Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.”

Virtually EVERY single Early Church Father confirmed their understanding of this passage was that John represented ALL of mankind.

If you understand that Mary gave birth to Jesus, the Head of the Body, then you have to understand that she gave birth to the entire Body since a body can’t be separated. So, she gave birth to the members as well. She gave physical birth to Jesus, and made it possible for ALL us to receive spiritual life through Him.

Virtually
Every...

Do you know English?

Please post some ECF that believed this.
I can't remember reading this. It doesn't mean it's not true.

But if you say EVERY it must be LITERALLY, not VIRTUALLY.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Here, let's get this thread back to topic.
Mary: Co-Redemptrix?

There's so much written about Mary in the CCC
(Catechism of the Catholic Church) that one hardly knows where to begin.

A good idea to begin is that the CC (Catholic Church - it's incorrect to call it the RCC Roman Catholic Church --Roman is a rite and not the name of a church) has begun to call Mary the Mother of the SON OF GOD, instead of MOTHER OF GOD, since, I'm sure we can all agree, God does NOT have a mother. He always was and always will be.

For instance, in the CCC paragraph (it goes by paragraphs)
no. 485 and 486

485 The mission of the Holy Spirit is always conjoined and ordered to that of the Son. The Holy Spirit, "the Lord, the giver of Life", is sent to sanctify the womb of the Virgin Mary and divinely fecundate it, causing her to conceive the eternal Son of the Father in a humanity drawn from her own.

486 The Father's only Son, conceived as man in the womb of the Virgin Mary, is "Christ", that is to say, anointed by the Holy Spirit, from the beginning of his human existence, though the manifestation of this fact takes place only progressively: to the shepherds, to the magi, to John the Baptist, to the disciples. Thus the whole life of Jesus Christ will make manifest "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power."

As we can see, the CC is endeavoring to move away from some language that could be confusing. The problem, IMO, is that the people sitting in the pews of the CC every Sunday DO NOT know anything about their faith or what is happening in the CC today. There is NO TEACHING. This makes for much confusion when Catholics are speaking to other Christians. Much incorrect information is passed on to others.

Mary is not to be worshipped, and yet she is.
She is to bring persons to Christ and yet they stop at her.

I'd like to say that I was raised Catholic and know the doctrine because I've taught in that chuch. I'd like to say that the CCC can be a very confusing book.

And I'd like to say that I love and honor Mary as the one person in all the world who knows Jesus as no one else does. I will not demean her in any way, but I will also not raise her to the level of our Savior, who is also HER savior.

I don't think Mary is referred to in the OP.

 

[GodsGrace]

there is some truth on both sides - our first Pope Peter, at 1Peter3:15 = be prepared to give an answer, advised this but neither I nor most Catholics have been prepared by the Church but in the main have had to prepare ourselves - btw no two churches or priests even give the same homilies or the best and only teaching - twinc

Let me reassure all non-catholics reading along that they are NOT prepared to give any answer and this is because there is no teaching in the CC. They have barely started now but parishioners don't even understand WHY it's necessary to understand the bible.
******************************************

Catholic Statistics

The following Church statistics are from Georgetown University. As you will soon tell, some of these stats are very hopeful, while others paint a very gloomy picture of the state of the Catholic Church. As you can imagine, gathering accurate stats on the state of Catholics worldwide can be as hard as herding cats in a pasture, so the absolute accuracy of them is not a guarantee, but rather, an approximate snapshot of current reality. So what to do with these statistics once you know them? It's so easy to say, "Well, it's the fault of the Bishops and the priests for not having better liturgies and sermons"... BUT - That is a copout. It's the job of the laity as much as our religious leaders to bring back the lost sheep to the flock. SO - Talk these stats up at your next gathering, and encourage others you know to get back to the sacraments! Otherwise, the devil will have his way with us, and that leads straight to hell.



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WORLDWIDE CATHOLIC POPULATION

2010: 1.2 Billion Souls (17% of World Population)

1970: 654 Million Souls (18% of World Population)

TOTAL PRIESTS

2010: 412, 236 Souls

1970: 419, 728 Souls

TOTAL NUNS

2010: 721,935 Souls

1970: 1, 004, 304 Souls

TOTAL PARISHES

2010: 221, 055

1970: 191, 398

% OF ALL ADULT CATHOLICS WHO ATTEND MASS

32% attend once a week or more

21% attend once a month, but less than weekly

24% attend a few times a year

23% never attend Mass

REASONS GIVEN FOR NOT ATTENDING HOLY MASS FOR THOSE ATTENDING A FEW TIMES A YEAR (Percentages add up to more than 100% due to multiple responses).

64% - “I don’t believe that missing Holy Mass is a sin.”

50% - “I’m not very religious.”

41% - “My schedule is too busy.”

31% - “I have family responsibilities.”

21% - “I have health and disability problems.”

16% - “I have a work conflict.”

FREQUENCY OF THE RECEPTION OF THE EUCHARIST (FOR WEEKLY MASS ATTENDEES)

79% always receive the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ

16% frequently receive the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ

3% seldom receive the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ

2% never receive the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ

CONFESSION

For weekly Mass-goers, only 61% go to confession at least ONCE A YEAR or more

For monthly Mass-goers, only 37% go to confession at least ONCE A YEAR or more

FREQUENCY OF ATTENDANCE OF HOLY DAYS OF OBLIGATION THAT DO NOT FALL ON A SUNDAY (FOR WEEKLY MASS ATTENDEES)

41% always attend

43% frequently attend

15% seldom attend

1% never attend

AVAILABILITY OF EUCHARISTIC ADORATION

47% of Catholics say that there is Eucharistic Adoration at their parish

6% of Catholics say that there is no Eucharistic Adoration at their parish

43% of Catholics say that they do not know

PARTICIPATION IN EUCHARISTIC ADORATION FOR PARISHES WHICH DO HAVE IT

29% of Catholics worship Jesus in Eucharistic Adoration

71% of Catholics do not worship Jesus in Eucharistic Adoration

BELIEF IN THE REAL PRESENCE OF JESUS IN THE EUCHARIST

91% of weekly Mass attendees believe that the Eucharist is Jesus Christ

65% of monthly Mass attendees believe that the Eucharist is Jesus Christ

40% of yearly Mass attendees believe that the Eucharist is Jesus Christ

UNITED STATES CATHOLICS

31% of US Citizens were raised Catholic

10% of US citizens who were raised Catholic renounce their faith later on in life

2.6% of US Citizens are Catholic converts

25% of all US Citizens are Catholic (immigrant Catholics to the US add 1.4 % to the total number)


Catholic Bible 101

 

[twinc]

See post #363 and 368 and 370. You're playing with words. You can't say someone is guilty of a lie and not call them a liar. You do with the English as you try and do with the Greek.

Nothing in (Luke 1:28) indicates Mary was without sin. That she was 'highly favoured' of course. Not sinless.

Stranger

so Jesus was sin from His mother's womb just like everyone else - blessed is the fruit of thy womb/Jesus = a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit imho - twinc

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't think Mary is referred to in the OP.

I don't know. It says co-redemptrix up on my address url bar. And that's what she ALMOST is in Catholicism, so...took my best shot.
I tried.
BoL only argues and does very little to let anyone understand catholicism, which does hold many good teachings - but who woulda eva thought??

 

[GodsGrace]

so Jesus was sin from His mother's womb just like everyone else - blessed is the fruit of thy womb/Jesus = a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit imho - twinc

You know twinc, it has been recently learned that the blood of the mother DOES NOT mingle with the blood of the fetus.

Interesting. I guess the Holy Spirit forgot to advise the catholic church of this when it decided to make the Immaculate Conception a doctrine.

Which means that a catholic MUST believe this is true.

There is non righteous, no, NOT ONE.
ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:10
Romans 3:23

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh boy.
Remarrieds are committing adultery and should not be receiving communion, at least not until 2016 when Francis changed everything.

I really have no further desire to speak with you.

You have "no further desire" to speak with me because I keep catching you in lies.

One of my closest friends is a remarried Catholic, whose first marriage was anulled. He and his wife are weekly communicants.
Nothing "new" here.

PS - Pope Francis didn't "change" anything in this regard.

 

[BreadOfLife]

See post #363 and 368 and 370. You're playing with words. You can't say someone is guilty of a lie and not call them a liar. You do with the English as you try and do with the Greek.

Nothing in (Luke 1:28) indicates Mary was without sin. That she was 'highly favoured' of course. Not sinless.

Stranger

Wrong.

I can catch you in the act of adultery - but that doesn't mean that I CALLED you an "adulterer."
No word games here - just truth . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, Mary was impregnated by God, but her mother was not impregnated by God with Mary.

Stranger

And your point is . . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

We are affected by Adam's sin.
God does NOT impute others' sins to us.
We are each individually responsible ONLY for our own sin.
I will not waste time with scripture.
This is for those reading along - I am no longer posting for YOU.

Romans 4:8 is an example.

Concupiscence is NOT a sin. It is the proclivity toward sin.
This is what we are born into. We're not guilty of Adam's sin.

Our inheritance is death BECAUSE of his sin.
Baptism erases this sentence - NOT the condition.

 

[mjrhealth]

Another lie.
Where did I CALL you a "Liar."

Answer: NOWHERE.

Tan therefore we are all telling the truth does not that than make you teh liar.... so why are you here than, how can you be exposing the lies of those who are telling teh truth.. or dont you understand english.

 

[GodsGrace]

You have "no further desire" to speak with me because I keep catching you in lies.

One of my closest friends is a remarried Catholic, whose first marriage was anulled. He and his wife are weekly communicants.
Nothing "new" here.

PS - Pope Francis didn't "change" anything in this regard.

ANNULLED.

You do have a problem with English.
I SAID that I never used the word ANNULLED.

Persons that did NOT have their first marriage ANNULLED are remarried and receiving communion.

And anyway, the church takes presidence over God??
Jesus said there is no divorce other than for fornication, adultery, unfaithfulness.

Now go ahead and advise me of all the other reasons for annulment. I don't know legal canon very well, but I do know under what conditions one may have a marriage annuled for the cost of about $5,000. and the bishop's approval.

Your babblings will mean nothing to me.
Get your nose out of the CCC and come into the real world. That book is 25 years old and things change.
Oh. Did you hear there might be a new CCC coming out. Or maybe a commentary to explain it because, as I've said several times, it is NOT easily understood.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Let me reassure all non-catholics reading along that they are NOT prepared to give any answer and this is because there is no teaching in the CC. They have barely started now but parishioners don't even understand WHY it's necessary to understand the bible.
******************************************

Catholic Statistics

The following Church statistics are from Georgetown University. As you will soon tell, some of these stats are very hopeful, while others paint a very gloomy picture of the state of the Catholic Church. As you can imagine, gathering accurate stats on the state of Catholics worldwide can be as hard as herding cats in a pasture, so the absolute accuracy of them is not a guarantee, but rather, an approximate snapshot of current reality. So what to do with these statistics once you know them? It's so easy to say, "Well, it's the fault of the Bishops and the priests for not having better liturgies and sermons"... BUT - That is a copout. It's the job of the laity as much as our religious leaders to bring back the lost sheep to the flock. SO - Talk these stats up at your next gathering, and encourage others you know to get back to the sacraments! Otherwise, the devil will have his way with us, and that leads straight to hell.

This is the most asinine thing I have ever seen.

It is impossible to say WHO gets into Heaven and who doesn't.
Only GOD knows who doesn't make it.

However, I DO agree with the above text in RED . . .