The Father's Ultimate Intention

[soul man]

To look at God like someone may predict the weather is foolishness. To try to pin God down based on the finite knowledge we have is foolishness. But the study of Gods word will in time bring the believer to some understanding of what God is doing. His knowledge is so far above and beyond our understanding that reading the same passage in the Scriptures will grow and take on new meaning from time to time.

Humans think they can read God's word once a know it all. In my life I have seen greater understanding come to me from time to time as I have entered a new walk in the Spirit, or when I went through a new experience, or when there were great changes in my life brought by the C & S ( circumstances and situations) gang. This happens because the father is always bringing me into his ultimate intention for my life for his eternal plan. You see, there are two guidelines given to every ongoing believer.

1) You were chosen to be in Christ, Eph 1:4. You were not chosen just to be saved. You were not chosen just to go to heaven. You were not chosen to be Christian over another religion. You were chosen to be in Christ. The wisdom of the father clearly shows in this fact. God knew that humans could never be what he needed them to be within themselves.

Just as Lucifer failed even while living in the Fathers house and living in His presence, God knew He could not trust His creations remaining as free moral agents to ever be what He needed in a family. So He placed, baptized and completely immersed the believing sinner instantly the moment he believed, into Christ, Romans 6:3.

The Fathers intension in this is to make sure that every child He produces will have His nature in him. He knows that created beings, even in His image and likeness, can miserably fail Him, just as Lucifer did. But there was one who never failed Him, Christ his Son. Now when a sinner believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, the Father places His seed, Christ, in he/she and never has to worry about who he/she is or where he/she is headed in life. This was His ultimate intention and it works and is working every moment after a believer is rebirthed.

2) The second guideline the father used was Christ death on the cross. Through Christ work on the cross He had the power to change humans and make them what he wanted them to be. He could just say the word or point his finger and get what he wanted but this could have not have been done without their being in Christ.

So to change humanity to fit his plan, all sinners were placed in Christ at Gethsemane by the cup He drank therefore all were crucified with Him, died with Him, buried with Him, were resurrected with Him and were ascended with him to heavenly places. he worked out His intention for His family perfectly.

 

[Helen]

Thank you...an very good read. Well spoken. :)

 

[soul man]

Thank you...an very good read. Well spoken. :)

I enjoy writing, glad you enjoyed it.

 

[Stranger]

To look at God like someone may predict the weather is foolishness. To try to pin God down based on the finite knowledge we have is foolishness. But the study of Gods word will in time bring the believer to some understanding of what God is doing. His knowledge is so far above and beyond our understanding that reading the same passage in the Scriptures will grow and take on new meaning from time to time.

Humans think they can read God's word once a know it all. In my life I have seen greater understanding come to me from time to time as I have entered a new walk in the Spirit, or when I went through a new experience, or when there were great changes in my life brought by the C & S ( circumstances and situations) gang. This happens because the father is always bringing me into his ultimate intention for my life for his eternal plan. You see, there are two guidelines given to every ongoing believer.

1) You were chosen to be in Christ, Eph 1:4. You were not chosen just to be saved. You were not chosen just to go to heaven. You were not chosen to be Christian over another religion. You were chosen to be in Christ. The wisdom of the father clearly shows in this fact. God knew that humans could never be what he needed them to be within themselves.

Just as Lucifer failed even while living in the Fathers house and living in His presence, God knew He could not trust His creations remaining as free moral agents to ever be what He needed in a family. So He placed, baptized and completely immersed the believing sinner instantly the moment he believed, into Christ, Romans 6:3.

The Fathers intension in this is to make sure that every child He produces will have His nature in him. He knows that created beings, even in His image and likeness, can miserably fail Him, just as Lucifer did. But there was one who never failed Him, Christ his Son. Now when a sinner believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, the Father places His seed, Christ, in he/she and never has to worry about who he/she is or where he/she is headed in life. This was His ultimate intention and it works and is working every moment after a believer is rebirthed.

2) The second guideline the father used was Christ death on the cross. Through Christ work on the cross He had the power to change humans and make them what he wanted them to be. He could just say the word or point his finger and get what he wanted but this could have not have been done without their being in Christ.

So to change humanity to fit his plan, all sinners were placed in Christ at Gethsemane by the cup He drank therefore all were crucified with Him, died with Him, buried with Him, were resurrected with Him and were ascended with him to heavenly places. he worked out His intention for His family perfectly.

Where do you get the idea that all sinners were placed in Christ at Gethsemane?

Stranger

 

[mjrhealth]

Where do you get the idea that all sinners were placed in Christ at Gethsemane?

Stranger

I must agree, Jesus may have dies for the sins of all mankind, but for one to be dead in Christ, one must die, and few have chosen tha twalk, thats why it says

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Not all men are in Him....

The rest, excellent...

 

[amadeus]

So to change humanity to fit his plan, all sinners were placed in Christ at Gethsemane by the cup He drank therefore all were crucified with Him, died with Him, buried with Him, were resurrected with Him and were ascended with him to heavenly places. he worked out His intention for His family perfectly.

Jesus overcame only for his own corruptible body of flesh at Gethsemene.

It was the final step for him to become the acceptable sacrifice at Calvary. He then went to Calvary to pay the price for our sins but we also had before us the necessity of overcoming as Jesus overcame. To do this we had first to be Alive. Life comes to men by means of eating his flesh and his blood which was not possible before that day of Pentecost described in Acts chapter 2 when the Holy Spirit was poured out for whosoever will.

Anyone who does NOT overcome cannot partake of the Tree of Life: Rev 2:7.
Jesus paid the price for us on Calvary and then the means to overcome through the power of the Holy Ghost was provided on Pentecost. We must overcome so as to never die. Jesus brought it for us but we must obtain it ourselves using what has been provided:

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:53-54

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus overcame only for his own corruptible body of flesh at Gethsemene.

It was the final step for him to become the acceptable sacrifice at Calvary. He then went to Calvary to pay the price for our sins but we also had before us the necessity of overcoming as Jesus overcame. To do this we had first to be Alive. Life comes to men by means of eating his flesh and his blood which was not possible before that day of Pentecost described in Acts chapter 2 when the Holy Spirit was poured out for whosoever will.

Anyone who does NOT overcome cannot partake of the Tree of Life: Rev 2:7.
Jesus paid the price for us on Calvary and then the means to overcome through the power of the Holy Ghost was provided on Pentecost. We must overcome so as to never die. Jesus brought it for us but we must obtain it ourselves using what has been provided:

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:53-54

What about John 16:33
[33] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Not saying you are wrong, I am only trying to understand your perspective fully. "Faith" overcomes. faith in Him that is within me. NOT faith in me. HE is the author and finisher of that faith.

1 John 5:4-5
[4] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. [5] Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?


1 John 4:3-6
[3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. [4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. [5] They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. [6] We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Is not the "overcoming" in hearing God instead of the world.

"greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world" sounds like God is "over" the world therefore meaning God has overcome the world. As the Lord said: be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Amadeus, in no way ever do I want to go against your gentleness. If I am being honest though; sounds a little like slipping back into: man's works. I could seriously be wrong. But for me, it sounds similar to saying: the world could possibly overcome the one inside us, which is God.


Is He in us or not?

 

[amadeus]

What about John 16:33
[33] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Not saying you are wrong, I am only trying to understand your perspective fully. "Faith" overcomes. faith in Him that is within me. NOT faith in me. HE is the author and finisher of that faith.

Jesus overcame the world as per John 16:33, but what world was that? It was certainly not planet Earth nor even all of the people who live on planet Earth. Jesus overcame his own "world" of temptations listed in this verse:

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

He had to overcome to be the acceptable sacrifice. When he walked to Calvary he was already an overcomer, the only one to that point.

1 John 5:4-5
[4] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. [5] Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

So then who is born of God? If we have not yet overcome all of our little world of temptation, then perhaps we are still in the womb or the birth canal still waiting to see all of the Light that God has for us. If we are still in the process of overcoming, it does not mean that we will not. Lots of definitions or even clichés believed and/or practiced by members of organizations saying they have already got all that is needed. Do they? Do we?

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

1 John 4:3-6
[3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. [4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. [5] They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. [6] We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Is not the "overcoming" in hearing God instead of the world.

Yes, but do we not still fight temptations? Do we still lose some battles? Do we still sometimes express serious doubts [even in our mind] because we are hearing the "stranger's voice" [John 10:5]?

We are a work in process, but no matter what many may say, the end is not yet for most of us. The final overcoming is done when there are no more trials and no more temptations.

"greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world" sounds like God is "over" the world therefore meaning God has overcome the world. As the Lord said: be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Amadeus, in no way ever do I want to go against your gentleness. If I am being honest though; sounds a little like slipping back into: man's works. I could seriously be wrong. But for me, it sounds similar to saying: the world could possibly overcome the one inside us, which is God.

Is He in us or not?

He is in us, but the old man is in us as well and he is not dead.

But... God does not lose battles at all. We do.

If we are trusting Him and asking for His help we will not quench the Holy Spirit of God in us. If we do quench the Spirit at times as a result we will also lose some battles.

Everyone of us who has not completely overcome his own little world of temptation remains double minded. This is why along with John the Baptist, we [the old man in us] need to decrease while he [the new man in us]needs to increase.

"Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.' James 4:8

Will we lose out with God and fail to make it in? Only if we quit! People want to ride the fence to get the best [as they see best] of this Earth and of God's Way. Eventually a fence rider will be spit out of God's mouth: Rev 3:16. As a believer, we won't become cold so long as we trust in God. We can become lukewarm and therein is our worst danger.

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Prov 3:5-6

Some people will say that while we are still double minded we may die while on the downside... that is while we are quenching the Spirit and committing sin... but consider the situation of David. He sinned. He walked contrary to God, but God knew the man's heart and always gave him the opportunity to remedy the situation. David always did and was called the apple of His eye and a man after God's own heart. So can we! See then this verse:

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." I Cor 10:13

To me it means that if we are really striving to always do it right but do slip, God will always provide us the opportunity to correct ourselves before He comes down on us.

 

[soul man]

He is in us, but the old man is in us as well and he is not dead.

Thanks for your reply, with due respect I'm getting a mixed message throughout your comments.
I'm not for sure I know where you are coming from.

 

[amadeus]

Thanks for your reply, with due respect I'm getting a mixed message throughout your comments.
I'm not for sure I know where you are coming from.

I only responded according to what I read. The one point that hit me especially wrong was the one I went into on post #6 with regard to what occurred in Gethsemene. If you have a question please don't hesitate to ask. I will do my best to further clarify what I believe.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

He is in us, but the old man is in us as well and he is not dead.

But... God does not lose battles at all. We do.

Thank you for your response. I will have to disagree. You said:

"He is in us, but the old man is in us as well and he is not dead."

HE crucified that old man. Yeah, we may still be dragging him around with us, but he is dead and holds no power of death over us.

"But... God does not lose battles at all. We do."

We do? That is because we are the ones doing the fighting. You are right: God does not lose battles.

 

[amadeus]

HE crucified that old man. Yeah, we may still be dragging him around with us, but he is dead and holds no power of death over us.

Yes, the old man is dead, but he is like a zombie wanting an opportunity to act as if he is alive. When we quench the Holy Spirit in us, I believe that we give him another opportunity. If and when we have overcome finally and completely as Jesus did, then that old man will have no further opportunities.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, the old man is dead, but he is like a zombie wanting an opportunity to act as if he is alive. When we quench the Holy Spirit in us, I believe that we give him another opportunity. If and when we have overcome finally and completely as Jesus did, then that old man will have no further opportunities.

2 Chronicles 20:17
[17] Ye shall not need to fight in this battle : set yourselves, stand ye still , and see the salvation of the Lord with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; to morrow go out against them: for the Lord will be with you.

2 Chronicles 32:8
[8] With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the Lord our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah.

Psalm 140:7
[7] O God the Lord, the strength of my salvation, thou hast covered my head in the day of battle.

2 Chronicles 20:15
[15] And he said, Hearken ye, all Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem, and thou king Jehoshaphat, Thus saith the Lord unto you, Be not afraid nor dismayed by reason of this great multitude; for the battle is not yours, but God's.

God doesn't change.

Quenching the Spirit is returning to what man can do to save himself. When we remove "the work" out of God's hand, and put it back into ours. We spend a lifetime edifying ourselves, submerged in some belief we can kill that old man ourselves. No matter how much he groans...that old man is already dead.

The deceit is that we had, or have, anything to do with it. That notion keeps us shackled under condemnation and from the real edification of love, which is to lift others up and has nothing to do with focus on that old man. That is where we quench and grieve the Spirit. Focused on what is behind.

 

[amadeus]

2 Chronicles 20:15
[15] And he said, Hearken ye, all Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem, and thou king Jehoshaphat, Thus saith the Lord unto you, Be not afraid nor dismayed by reason of this great multitude; for the battle is not yours, but God's.

God doesn't change.

Quenching the Spirit is returning to what man can do to save himself. When we remove "the work" out of God's hand, and put it back into ours. We spend a lifetime edifying ourselves, submerged in some belief we can kill that old man ourselves. No matter how much he groans...that old man is already dead.

The deceit is that we had, or have, anything to do with it. That notion keeps us shackled under condemnation and from the real edification of love, which is to lift others up and has nothing to do with focus on that old man. That is where we quench and grieve the Spirit. Focused on what is behind.

Quenching the Spirit occurs every time we take our own reins back into our own hands even for a moment. This is why we must continuously repeatedly give those reins back to Him.

The battle is God's, but we have something to do with it. God will not fight a battle within us without our permission and thus our help... even though our help is small.

"And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed.
But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun." Ex 17:11-12

Some people will reject every pastor or minister not realizing the necessity of having them to accomplish God's work. Aaron and Hur supported the tired hands of Moses and so must we support our ministers who sent to us by God. If we sit back and watch the minister weaken and fail, have we done what we can do? Have we quenched the Spirit when do not lend support even to a called minister with whom we disagree in some measure? But... his work:

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;" Eph 4:11-14

 

[twinc]

simply simply believe[Jn 20:31] and fear not little flock for yours is the kingdom[Lk 12:32] - twinc