The Gardener

[VictoryinJesus]

Absolutely points to the fact of what Israel truly is.
I have never heard it preached ever, it's just another of them things that has been tried to be hidden I think.
This point of Nathaniel is a key point to everything, he is a true Israel and he knows who the Lord Jesus is, as does anyone who is a true Israel (servant of God) Nathaniel has the Holy Spirit it's with him.
I make a point of Jacob becoming Israel in the Bible and why it is in fact so, because in this we know what the point of Israel truly is all about in fact, so many just overlook this point.
The Tribe of Israel is one thing but to be an Israel is more than just the Tribe, the tribe just don't cut it to be a true Israel but are just of such a tribe.
Jacob Israel had two Children that were more precious than the others to him, they were of the Wife he truly only wanted and it is interesting subject to note all that is said about them two in the Bible and why.
One should not take the name Israel lightly, as in one should not make claims to be such if you can't truly cut the grade, as Jesus says it is in one whom is no guile that truly is Israel, not to mention he is working to make that tree Israel bear fruit.

I would not be surprised if Nathaniel is truly St Stephen, Nathaniel Stephen he had to be a Spiritual King ? that's that the word Stephen can be seen as and it is said of him that he was full of the Holy Spirit and only one other in the Bible that was full of the Holy Spirit and that was Jesus Mother, St Stephen hit it home when he pointed out the facts of the history Israel to all before they stoned him to death for saying the absolute truth and facts of the matter and I am sure it was this that brought Saul to ponder and then got struck by God.

The Bible subject of Nathaniel just blows me away as does St Stephen, it's truly powerful.

Was reading and came across this verse in Micah and thought of what you shared about Nathaniel.

Micah 4:4
[4] But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the Lord of hosts hath spoken it .

John 1:50
[50] Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

And you shall see the Heavens opened, and the angels ascending and descending upon the Son of God.
Now if that does not blow you away ! it's powerful and Nathaniel sure did see this and more so to this, we can see such in the Holy Spirit working.

 

[bbyrd009]

under his vine and under his fig tree

these are perceived as good things, huh?
"Fig tree" is symbolic of something, not sure it is a good thing now tbh.
Fig trees are not Palm trees, for instance
"Under his own" is maybe a clue there

 

[bbyrd009]

so iow a literal reading works bc being able to literally eat from one's own production is a good thing; and spiritually it works as chastisement for eating from your own tree. Sublime, really

 

[VictoryinJesus]

these are perceived as good things, huh?
"Fig tree" is symbolic of something, not sure it is a good thing now tbh.
"Under his own" is maybe a clue there

Not sure I follow? Where is "under his own"?

 

[bbyrd009]

Not sure I follow? Where is "under his own"?

oh, thought i posted it sorry

Micah 4:4 Lexicon: Each of them will sit under his vine And under his fig tree, With no one to make them afraid, For the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken.

wherein "own" is implied

similar thing going on at "oak," not a good tree, and even "iron" i think

 

[bbyrd009]

wherein "own" is implied

otherwise you have "every man will then be following Christ, all at the same time," besides which i guess the Hebrew syntax suggests "own" there too. But fwiw scholars have tried to make that his into "His," discussions can be searched. "Fig tree" is chosen specifically to denote man's wisdom i guess, bc there are "early" (valueless) figs, and then there are later figs.

Contrast with "Palm tree," and...Deborah, i think? and note that Abraham was associated with "the Oaks of Mamre," iow "an inferior school of thought," when you look hard enough; diff subject tho lol

Seeking why Jesus condemned the fig tree got me to some good reflections here, i'll see if i can dig them up

 

[bbyrd009]

Matthew 24:32 can now be re-read, wherein the "fig tree" can be associated with all of those things we judge as "evil," see, all of the things Matt was just telling us about. Men planting vineyards also takes on new perspectives, etc

 

[Helen]

Seeking why Jesus condemned the fig tree got me to some good reflections here, i'll see if i can dig them up

I don't see any evil...but its sure not positive.
The fig tree relates to the nation of Israel so we understand how the fig tree is often used in the Scriptures to symbolically represent Israel.

It says - He saw a fig tree with leaves...was hungry and He came to the tree expecting to find fruit, (because the tree was displaying leaves.)
Because there, the fruit comes before or with the leaves.

When you were out there , did you notice that?

When the Day comes...He will come expecting to find us with fruit...not just leaves and nothing else. ( Note to self...He is a fruit inspector)

 

[bbyrd009]

When you were out there , did you notice that?

hmm, no, now that you mention it. Saw lots of palms and olives, but not figs, hmm

except in rows on a Kibbutz; none wild iow. Course i could have walked right by one then, too

 

[Helen]

Dave served 3 years in the Greek v Turks squabble in Cyprus in the 1950's

He said that figs straight from the tree are nothing like the figs in the store.
He was addicted to them out there. :)

( but too many are not so good for a person!!! Ha! )

 

[bbyrd009]

Dave served 3 years in the Greek v Turks squabble in Cyprus in the 1950's

He said that figs straight from the tree are nothing like the figs in the store.
He was addicted to them out there. :)

( but too many are not so good for a person!!! Ha! )

ya, i guess figs are a product more of northern Israel, and i've always gone south for whatever reason

 

[VictoryinJesus]

oh, thought i posted it sorry

Micah 4:4 Lexicon: Each of them will sit under his vine And under his fig tree, With no one to make them afraid, For the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken.

I am sorry. I thought "his" vine and fig tree meant God's vine and fig tree. But yes, now that you have brought it to my attention I see the conflict there. So I don't know. I see it as, and I am not saying it's right because I am really starting to see how every one hears something different, so in no way am I saying mine is right. There is a good chance it is not:

Galatians 4:27
[27] For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

As David said in Psalms; God brought the deep up over them. But David also saw God's work.

Psalm 36:6-9
[6] Thy righteousness is like the great mountains; thy judgments are a great deep: O Lord , thou preservest man and beast. [7] How excellent is thy lovingkindness, O God! therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of thy wings. [8] They shall be abundantly satisfied with the fatness of thy house; and thou shalt make them drink of the river of thy pleasures. [9] For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.

Psalm 42:7
[7] Deep calleth unto deep at the noise of thy waterspouts: all thy waves and thy billows are gone over me.

Desolation came to the Jews and the old covenant of man's works and as a result; the promise came(sprung forth) Grace of the Lord which went out to the gentiles, and to the ends of the earth. Because of the Jews(the Chosen of Abraham) the promise came. For the Jews(the Chosen of Abraham) because God loves His people. Their divorcement came. Suffering. Loss. Rejection. For a season. Grace is the fruit of the Jews. They were made desolate so that they would bear children by grace. (children born free) which is us. We are their fruit that came after the leaves. In their season.

The religious gain that devoured the widows houses and the poor cast their works before the fruit of the Spirit came and as a result, their (fleshly) fruit withered. He cursed the fig tree. So I do see what you are saying. But Israel (the true Israel) conceived children and were given the heathen as an inheritance...us; those grafted in. I'm sure you can relate to desolation. You spoke of it. Of eating grass and decrease. Desolation comes before restoration, and that which was barren conceived the promise of Spiritual fruit, by desolation.

Zechariah 8:22-23
[22] Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord . [23] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass , that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It says - He saw a fig tree with leaves...was hungry and He came to the tree expecting to find fruit, (because the tree was displaying leaves.)
Because there, the fruit comes before or with the leaves.

"Because there, the fruit comes before or with the leaves"

ByGrace, I've been asking Him for a while about a passage. Then you posted about the fruit coming before the leaves and it seemed like an answer. Maybe I am reading into it what isn't there. Please, can you share what this passage says to you?

1 Timothy 5:23-25
[23] Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. [24] Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after. [25] Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

so iow a literal reading works bc being able to literally eat from one's own production is a good thing; and spiritually it works as chastisement for eating from your own tree. Sublime, really

Consider Sarai who becomes Sarah(with Spirit added. She is "barren" and can not conceive a child. The miracle is that what is(or who is) barren...does conceive and bares a child of promise in her old age.

Can God make what is "barren" conceive? If a dead womb can conceive and bring forth life...then God can cause a dead nation also to conceive and bring forth life! Where is the miracle? It is in that a dead womb brings forth the miracle of promise.

 

[bbyrd009]

Consider Sarai who becomes Sarah(with Spirit added. She is "barren" and can not conceive a child. The miracle is that what is(or who is) barren...does conceive and bares a child of promise in her old age.

Can God make what is "barren" conceive? If a dead womb can conceive and bring forth life...then God can cause a dead nation also to conceive and bring forth life! Where is the miracle? It is in that a dead womb brings forth the miracle of promise.

funny you say that, as "widow" is understood as symbology for "nation" by many i guess. Which brings up some fairly interesting returns in search btw, serveral pages deep. Nice hit at 1Tim5 up there :)

 

[Helen]

"Because there, the fruit comes before or with the leaves"

ByGrace, I've been asking Him for a while about a passage. Then you posted about the fruit coming before the leaves and it seemed like an answer. Maybe I am reading into it what isn't there. Please, can you share what this passage says to you?

1 Timothy 5:23-25
[23] Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. [24] Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after. [25] Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.

Thanks for the reply.
I just wanted you to know that I have seen your post. But , I am "out and about" today, and can't get back on here until later today... :)
I will not forget...and I will answer when I am not rushed like I am now.

Blessings....H

 

[bbyrd009]

Zechariah 8:22-23
[22] Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord . [23] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass , that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

for whatever reason i am led here to say that, contrary to what many of us believe, it was the Hebrews who invented vowels, this was a huge leap that made writing available to the masses, and the phrase can be searched for more :)

 

[Helen]

Please, can you share what this passage says to you?

1 Timothy 5:23-25
[23] Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. [24] Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after. [25] Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.

Well, here I am back again....I'm tired, but I have a little brain power left :)

I have looked at these verses...even asked the Lord...but nothing pops into my heart. Sorry.
These verses to me are just saying what they are saying....ie, nothing very deep or meaningful. weakness and infirmities
It seems that Timothy had a weak stomach ,and Paul is saying 'It wont be improve with just babying it with water ...so add some wine to settle it.
As an aside, it did make me wonder ...... as Paul knew that Timothy had reoccurring weaknesses and infirmities, then why didn't Paul pray for him and get him healed?!!
People like 'Sword' ( remember him?) and others, are so quick to tell us how easily it is to receive a healing....if that were so, why did Paul leave Timothy with "often infirmities"? Interesting, but it doesn't answer your question. :)

A a short fat pastor friend of ours would pat his stomach and say- " A gossip's sins do not go before them, an addicted persons sin's do not go before them. But wherever I go...my sins always go before me..

So what does that verse mean? I don't really know...I have never known.
Some bible verse are like that we me...I read over them, but they don't 'touch me' as it were.

I probably could have said this this morning...but I wanted to wait and se if the Lord gave me anything on them. Sorry

Maybe someone else has some fresh light.

Bless you...H

 

[Triumph1300]

A a short fat pastor friend of ours would pat his stomach

Must have been a pentecostal?