"I never knew you: depart from me, you that work inquity."

[Heb 13:8]

The ones Christ never knew were the one NOT DOING what the Father has said. It therefore was their LACK of obedient works as to why Christ did not know them.

Hi Ernest. No, they were doing works outside of Christ because they didn't have the vine which is Jesus Christ himself. There's a clear distinction is scripture between sheep being believers and wolves as nonbelievers.

Matt 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Matt 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Jhn 10:25-30 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

Acts 20:28-30 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

God bles

 

[bbyrd009]

Matt 7:15-23 is to be read together and not separately. The KJV has it read together which is correct. Man has separated them by subtitles in the NIV and that is incorrect. Scripture is comparing sheep (believers) and wolves (nonbelievers) by works salvation. The wolves were the ones who were preaching works salvation, Matt 7:22. Nowhere in these passages will you find the word "disciple", and yet man felt it necessary to add "disciple" to the subtitles. God bless

that works marginally ok, until you consider all of the rest of Scripture. Believers are judged by their works too.

Are you not even a little worried about being considered least in the kingdom, Heb?

 

[Heb 13:8]

that woks fine, until you consider all of the rest of Scripture Heb

the rest as in what. -->

 

[bbyrd009]

the rest as in what. -->

Are you not even a little worried about being considered least in the kingdom, Heb?

 

[Heb 13:8]

..

Are you not even a little worried about not making it into the kingdom at all, bby?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Hi Ernest. No, they were doing works outside of Christ because they didn't have the vine which is Jesus Christ himself. There's a clear distinction is scripture between sheep being believers and wolves as nonbelievers.

Matt 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Matt 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Jhn 10:25-30 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

Acts 20:28-30 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

God bles

Hi,

Seems you are making something simple complicated.

Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

Mt 7:21 is similar to what Christ said in Luke 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

Just saying "Lord, Lord" will not get one in the kingdom or make Jesus one's 'Lord' for that is the wrong activity. It takes an active doing of what God said to do for one to enter the kingdom and for Jesus to be one's Lord.

Therefore the problem with those in Matthew 7:22 was not a problem of lack of works but they were doing the WRONG kind of works. Had they being doing what God said to do then (1) Christ would have known them, (2) He would be their "Lord" and (3) they could enter the kingdom. But again, they were doing the wrong kind of works.

Romans 10:3 "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

The Jews lost here in Rom 10 were essentially lost for the same reason as those in Mt 7:22 that being they were doing the wrong kind of work. Again the problem was not that they were doing a work (following their own self-righteousness) but the problem was they were doing the wrong kind of work, they had not obeyed the commands of God that would save them.

There are two different works mentioned in Rom 10:3:

1) establishing their own righteousness
2) submitting to God's righteousness (commands)

Work #1 does not save where work #2 does save.

Unfortunately some people make the wrong assumption that all works are all the same and no work is necessary to be saved. They fail to realize that all works are NOT the same while some works will not save yet another type of work (doing the will of God) does save.

The issue here is not WHY they were doing the WRONG work but the issue is they WERE doing the WRONG work therefore not saved for not doing the RIGHT kind of work.

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you not even a little worried about not making it into the kingdom at all, bby?

Heb you are changing the subject here. there is stupid much Scripture to back up "don't be deceived little children" yet the convenient confusion that has been manufactured around "what law?" seems to be coming almost entirely from ppl who consider themselves believers.

Nice ppl, too, you guys all seem to be decent, even though you are doing the same thing mjr does here, deflecting and refusing to engage on the matter.

Can we discuss whether you must keep the law or not?
Alternately, your best Quote for "i don't have to keep the law anymore" would be nice i guess. i don't recall ever getting it
ty

 

[bbyrd009]

Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates and dried up its water to prepare the way for the kings from the east.

i was actually searching for 'don't go to the kings of the east," thought that was in There too? wouldn't surprise me a bit if this is where we are in the cycle though, i guess.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

Mt 7:21 is similar to what Christ said in Luke 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

Just saying "Lord, Lord" will not get one in the kingdom or make Jesus one's 'Lord' for that is the wrong activity. It takes an active doing of what God said to do for one to enter the kingdom and for Jesus to be one's Lord.

You say this: that one must “do”.
That faith is an action in motion.
What is the action?
What is the will of God that one must “do”? what are the “works”?

Mt 7:21 is similar to what Christ said in Luke 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Who is He saying this to that “do not the things which I say?” Yet call Him Lord?

 

[Heb 13:8]

Seems you are making something simple complicated.

Complicated, hardly. Not once did you mention sheep and wolves in your post. If you don't get that, then you've missed the boat. God bless

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

You say this: that one must “do”.
That faith is an action in motion.
What is the action?
What is the will of God that one must “do”? what are the “works”?

Mt 7:21 is similar to what Christ said in Luke 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Who is He saying this to that “do not the things which I say?” Yet call Him Lord?

Jesus, not me, said one must DOETH the will of the Father to enter the kingdom. The ones that do the will of the Father are the righteous, obedient that will be saved. Those that do NOT do the will of the Father are the unrighteous, disobedient ones who will be lost.

For one to enter the kingdom/be saved, one must DO the will of the Father in believing (John 8:24) repenting (Luke 13:3) confession (Matthew 10:32-33) submit to baptism (Mark 16:16) do good works (Ephesians 2:10) live faithfully unto death (Revelations 2:10).


Each of us are doing some thing....we are either disobeying God serving "sin unto death" or obeying God serving "obedience unto righteousness", no inbetween.

We all are doing one or the other. I serve obedience unto righteousness. (Romans 6:16)

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Complicated, hardly. Not once did you mention sheep and wolves in your post. If you don't get that, then you've missed the boat. God bless

Christ's sheep are the ones that are doing the right kind of work in doing the will of the Father that gives entrance into the kingdom.

Wolves are the ones doing the wrong type of work leaving them outside the kingdom.

The issue is if one is doing the right type of work that saves (doing the will of God) rather than the wrong type of work that cannot save (doing ones on will).

 

[Heb 13:8]

Heb you are changing the subject here. there is stupid much Scripture to back up "don't be deceived little children" yet the convenient confusion that has been manufactured around "what law?" seems to be coming almost entirely from ppl who consider themselves believers.

Nice ppl, too, you guys all seem to be decent, even though you are doing the same thing mjr does here, deflecting and refusing to engage on the matter.

Can we discuss whether you must keep the law or not?
Alternately, your best Quote for "i don't have to keep the law anymore" would be nice i guess. i don't recall ever getting it
ty

nah mjr and i just pointing people to the cross. who keeps the law but liars? James 2:10 the law never got people to heaven only the blood of Christ does God bless calvin

 

[bbyrd009]

Who is He saying this to that “do not the things which I say?” Yet call Him Lord?

i would assume the widows and orphans and visiting in jail thing?

 

[bbyrd009]

who keeps the law but liars?

seriously Heb? only liars keep the law as best they are able? This is a different concept than keeping the law perfectly, see, no one can claim that, certainly. Yet Christ tells us to keep the law regardless. So imo two different concepts are being confused there.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Christ's sheep are the ones that are doing the right kind of work in doing the will of the Father that gives entrance into the kingdom.

Wolves are the ones doing the wrong type of work leaving them outside the kingdom.

The issue is if one is doing the right type of work that saves (doing the will of God) rather than the wrong type of work that cannot save (doing ones on will).

Ernest, the sheep are born again believers and the wolves are nonbelievers those who haven't come to faith in Jesus Christ yet. People are separated into two identities, and that's where you've missed it John 3:3 .for believers it's about belief not works.

John 5:24 "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

God bles

 

[Heb 13:8]

seriously Heb? only liars keep the law as best they are able? This is a different concept than keeping the law perfectly, see, no one can claim that, certainly. Yet Christ tells us to keep the law regardless. So imo two different concepts are being confused there.

Rite, the religious have to keep the law because they don't have the cross yet, or saving grace yet. i pray one day they will. the testimony.

Heb 6:16-20 People swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

1 John 5:9-13 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

 

[bbyrd009]

Rite, the religious have to keep the law because they don't have the cross yet, or saving grace yet. i pray one day they will. the testimony.

Heb 6:16-20 People swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

1 John 5:9-13 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

and where Paul verifies "keep the law," what about that?

also, you might be construed as saying 'i don't have to keep the speed limit" et al, which i doubt is what you are really saying, could you comment on that? ty

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Ernest, the sheep are born again believers and the wolves are nonbelievers those who haven't come to faith in Jesus Christ yet. People are separated into two identities, and that's where you've missed it John 3:3 .for believers it's about belief not works.

John 5:24 "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

God bles

One is not a sheep of Christ until they first do what Christ says....My sheep hear my voice and they follow me (John 10:27). One therefore cannot be a sheep of Christ nor enter the kingdom without first doing what the Lord says to do.

I do not know what you background is but it appears to be Calvinist. If so, then God does not first unconditionally make one to be a sheep where he can then do God's will nor does God unconditionally make one a wolf where he is never able to do God's will.

But the point I have been making and continue to make and the Bible is clear on, it that there are different types of works where some works do not save or another type of work does save (Romans 10:3). It is the type of work one chooses to do that determines if he will be saved or not (Romans 2:6-9) where salvation/condemnation is not a choice made by God and forced upon man.

 

[Heb 13:8]

and where Paul verifies "keep the law," what about that?

also, you might be construed as saying 'i don't have to keep the speed limit" et al, which i doubt is what you are really saying, could you comment on that? ty

I guess believers work to keep the law, but we don't depend on it to keep us saved.

One is not a sheep of Christ until they first do what Christ says....My sheep hear my voice and they follow me (John 10:27). One therefore cannot be a sheep of Christ nor enter the kingdom without first doing what the Lord says to do.

I do not know what you background is but it appears to be Calvinist. If so, then God does not first unconditionally make one to be a sheep where he can then do God's will nor does God unconditionally make one a wolf where he is never able to do God's will.

But the point I have been making and continue to make and the Bible is clear on, it that there are different types of works where some works do not save or another type of work does save (Romans 10:3). It is the type of work one chooses to do that determines if he will be saved or not (Romans 2:6-9) where salvation/condemnation is not a choice made by God and forced upon man.

The Bible is clear that we are covered under the blood of Christ, and nothing we do will ever add to what Jesus already accomplished at the cross.